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The New Gilded Age

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  • Rym will point out the problems but what about a one-time capital gains adjustment tax where all assets that fall under capital gains rules are treated as if sold and bought (gains/losses realized) on the last trading day of the year?

    If the owner has a net gain taxes are paid. If a net loss they get to carry it forward. I imagine a good trillion dollars could be collected?
  • See, that's your first mistake. The correct choice was nihilism.
  • image
    Relevant.

    Also, when I look at that:
    image
  • image
    Relevant.

    Do you have a source for that? Curious to see a break down by company size (larger the company larger the disparity?)
  • Not off-hand, no. So feel free to dismiss it until I'm able to find a source, I'll look for one later today when I get some time.
  • Yea, even my conservative father (who is Pro-union though) thinks we should be towards the Japanese model of pay for CEO's.
  • edited October 2011
    Do you have any links from unbiased sources? Looks like all of the articles you posted links to are talking about large corporations.
    Post edited by HMTKSteve on
  • Are there any unbiased economic sources?
  • Are there any unbiased economic sources?
    Yes, IRS data is a good source of unbiased income information.
  • Also, here's something from CBS news:

    Japan Airline Boss
    Anecdotal, though.
  • IRS data
    Cool, definitely let me know what you find from that. I'd be curious to see how CEO's tax returns compare to the national average too.
  • I'm curious to know what the pay disparity is in mid size companies.

    If a company has 100 employees and the CEO makes 10x the salary of the average employee that sound fair. Now, what happens if 10 of these companies merge to form a bigger company of 1,000 employees. The existing CEOs become local/subsidiary CEOs and keep their 10x salary but what should the persons above them make for monies? Now you have a CEO of 10 combined companies making the same money as the CEO in charge of a division with only 10% of the people? Should this new CEO make more than 10x? Should the former CEO slots have their pay downgraded?

    That's why I'd like to see numbers and data on different size company CEO pays.

    My company was bought up by a larger company a few years back. We went from having a CEO who was in charge of everything to a CEO who was in charge of all the same things but now had higher ups to report to. The salary for the job stayed about the same (as did the responsibilities) but the people higher up the totem poll then him make a lot more money.
  • A little more digging turned up the original source, a college paper. It's a bit old, so I'd be curious to know how it stacks up:

    CEO Pay vs Average Worker

    There's other sources in that paper that point to original sources instead of just meta-analysis, but it's a pretty old paper. I'd be surprised if things have changed THAT much in 6 years though.
  • I'm curious to know what the pay disparity is in mid size companies.

    If a company has 100 employees and the CEO makes 10x the salary of the average employee that sound fair. Now, what happens if 10 of these companies merge to form a bigger company of 1,000 employees. The existing CEOs become local/subsidiary CEOs and keep their 10x salary but what should the persons above them make for monies? Now you have a CEO of 10 combined companies making the same money as the CEO in charge of a division with only 10% of the people? Should this new CEO make more than 10x? Should the former CEO slots have their pay downgraded?

    That's why I'd like to see numbers and data on different size company CEO pays.
    You might be able to find that information by looking at IRS data, but I'm not sure how much of that stuff is disclosed publicly. I don't think you could look up my tax return, for instance, or the one of the CEO of my company (a mid-size company). I do know his salary though, from other means, and he makes about 20x what I do in salary alone (without any stock options or bonuses figured in, which I don't get).
  • edited October 2011
    Here's something:

    image
    link
    Where base CEO salaries are concerned, the median for this group was $410,923, a 1 percent increase over the year before. Interestingly, this is lower than the average increase reported in most national surveys for all employees (2.9 percent). In the 43 companies where the same incumbent was in place during the last two years, 24 companies increased base salary in 2010, 16 maintained base salary at the same level, and three actually decreased base salary for the CEO. Among those experiencing the largest increases were Lawrence Cohen at Capital Senior Living (up 48 percent) and George F. Jones Jr. at Texas Bancshares (up 21 percent). It is risky, though, to evaluate just one component of compensation in isolation. For instance, Cohen’s base salary increase was due to eliminating a special quarterly bonus for achieving earnings-per-share goals and implementing a new employment agreement.
    http://www.greenwich.com/Greenwich0.5/CMA/campaign_messages/campaign_docs/gr_bus_forum_june_08_sr-exec-compensation.pdf

    Looks like mid-size businesses are much closer to the 10:1 ratio than large ones. Could it be because large business is so large that a 10:1 ratio simply makes no sense?

    Here is a Harvard Paper on the issue
    Post edited by HMTKSteve on
  • Hrm, I'm not sure if the CEO would be entitled to making 100x the pay in your scenario, as his bonuses from stock skyrocketing would net him a very tidy amount of money. As well, the average pay may stay the same or even reduce if there are significant redundancies. If 10 companies of 100 employees merged, I'm not sure you'd have 1000 workers all working at the end of the day.

    I think the thing to look at would be the differences between why Japanese CEOs are making 10x while American CEOs are making far more. I doubt it's simply because our businesses are bigger. Personally, I think it would end up being cultural differences.
  • Here is a Harvard Paper on the issue
    Sweet. I'll have to read over that.
  • Hrm, I'm not sure if the CEO would be entitled to making 100x the pay in your scenario, as his bonuses from stock skyrocketing would net him a very tidy amount of money. As well, the average pay may stay the same or even reduce if there are significant redundancies. If 10 companies of 100 employees merged, I'm not sure you'd have 1000 workers all working at the end of the day.
    True and I wouldn't expect him to make 10x what the manager directly below him makes. Perhaps 1.5 to 2x but certainly not 10x.
  • Yeah, I also wonder when exactly the total compensation starts making larger jumps. I mean, I don't think my manager makes more than $10-$15k more than I do, which I'm OK with considering she has a decade more in the industry than I do and is good at her job. But does HER boss make 100k more than her a year? Or, total compensation, $400k more? Is that OK, considering that the responsibility is a bit more? And is the responsibility THAT much more?

    Or.. does pay stay at a certain rate, maybe +/- 50%, and then when you hit Executive level you start maxing out the bonus points and hitting the big point multipliers?
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