No more peeing at Starbucks

Rym

Starbucks is no longer going to provide bathrooms to the masses.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/starbucks-bathrooms-starbucks-plans-to-shut-restrooms-public-toilets-new-york-city-133958248.html


In my opinion, this is good news. For too long, cities have refused to provide adequate public access to bathrooms, placing an undue burden on private business to cover the gap. This shows yet another failing in putting all of one's faith in the "invisible hand" of the "free market" to provide what are in actuality necessities. People need places to pee in New York, and the city needs to provide them or incentivize their provision.

I also look forward to being able to enter a Starbucks and not have to fight through a bathroom line twice as long as the ordering line just to get my latte. ;^)

Apreche

This is bad. I need a place to go to the bathroom!

Rym

This is bad. I need a place to go to the bathroom!

This will piss everybody off and force a showdown.

Amp

Occupy Bathrooms. I want to piss everywhere when ever I want.

WindUpBird

But now where will rowdy teenagers have sex without dealing with their parents' rules!?

George Patches

So glad I live in the suburbs right now.

gomidog

Also, Starbucks bathrooms get so gross because there are huge lines to use them! The one near Astor place was terrible and full of poo.
Also, George, if you are in the suburbs, not near your house, and need a bathroom, it is even harder to find a public toilet.

Bronzdragon

Just knock on a random person's house and ask.

George Patches

Also, George, if you are in the suburbs, not near your house, and need a bathroom, it is even harder to find a public toilet.

I can always pee in the woods if I have to. :P

Apreche

Also, George, if you are in the suburbs, not near your house, and need a bathroom, it is even harder to find a public toilet.

I can always pee in the woods if I have to. :P

If someone sees you, you can be tried as a sex offender. There are multiple people on the sex offender registry who are guilty of no more than peeing on the side of the road.

Viga

Public bathrooms are so gross I rather use the alley.

Just knock on a random person's house and ask.

No. That's how folks get robbed. It happens.

Jack Draigo

Uh, if you're providing a service that includes drinks (or is entirely drinks) and let them stay long enough to process those, you need to provide a goddamn bathroom to your damn customers. I can understand making the bathrooms for paying customers only, but to close the bathrooms to everyone is asking for trouble.

This would be like if a restaurant chain decided, "Nope, we're not gonna let you use the restroom, but still gonna give you 32oz drinks with your meal."

WindUpBird

Also, George, if you are in the suburbs, not near your house, and need a bathroom, it is even harder to find a public toilet.

I can always pee in the woods if I have to. :P

If someone sees you, you can be tried as a sex offender. There are multiple people on the sex offender registry who are guilty of no more than peeing on the side of the road.

I would just like to state that I think this is fucking bullshit. There's plenty of places that won't let you use their restrooms without buying something in the burbs where I live, and if you have a urinary condition, what do they want you to do, piss your pants? The lack of common sense has made it so that either humiliating yourself or potentially ruining the normalcy of your life are the two choices you have in that situation.

Call me crazy, but there is a massive fucking difference between me ducking behind the green door in the Forest Preserve, and some weirdo breaking the seal underneath a jungle gym.

Nuri

Uh, if you're providing a service that includes drinks (or is entirely drinks) and let them stay long enough to process those, you need to provide a goddamn bathroom to your damn customers. I can understand making the bathrooms for paying customers only, but to close the bathrooms to everyone is asking for trouble.

This would be like if a restaurant chain decided, "Nope, we're not gonna let you use the restroom, but still gonna give you 32oz drinks with your meal."

I agree. There is a solution. Don't buy drinks there.

Jack Draigo

Uh, if you're providing a service that includes drinks (or is entirely drinks) and let them stay long enough to process those, you need to provide a goddamn bathroom to your damn customers. I can understand making the bathrooms for paying customers only, but to close the bathrooms to everyone is asking for trouble.

This would be like if a restaurant chain decided, "Nope, we're not gonna let you use the restroom, but still gonna give you 32oz drinks with your meal."

I agree. There is a solution. Don't buy drinks there.

way ahead of you on that part Nuri, I never liked Starbucks to begin with, but me saying I'm boycotting them probably won't affect them that much because of it.

Rym

So, Starbucks should have to pay for New York's public restroom infrastructure?

Even when restricted to paying customers here, restrooms are destroyed and filled with poo. It's also a huge pain to enforce, making even longer lines and hurting business. Bathrooms cost a huge amount to maintain here due to the extreme use.

Also, if you even glanced at the article, you'd know that the law says you need bathrooms for the public only if you have more than 19 seats. Most Starbucks have fewer than that.

I am fine with the move. This is a problem better solved by government incentives or spending than putting a particular burden on small private storefronts.

Nuri

So, Starbucks should have to pay for New York's public restroom infrastructure?

Even when restricted to paying customers here, restrooms are destroyed and filled with poo. It's also a huge pain to enforce, making even longer lines and hurting business. Bathrooms cost a huge amount to maintain here due to the extreme use.

Also, if you even glanced at the article, you'd know that the law says you need bathrooms for the public only if you have more than 19 seats. Most Starbucks have fewer than that.

Nobody said they were doing something illegal. People disagree with legal moves all the time. You vote with your dollar. Personally, I rarely stay in a Starbucks long enough to finish a drink, so the restroom thing doesn't bother me. Anyone who DOES have a problem with it, however, has the option not to patronize the establishment.

Jack Draigo

How does restricting restroom use to paying customers increase lines? Hell if anything it increases business because suddenly if little johnny has to go, mommy's gotta pony up $5.15 or whatever for a small cup of warm water just to use the toilet. The problem is like I said, people will buy a drink, and then hang out for an hour or two or all day doing stuff and then they gotta pee, and you're just gonna tell them they're SOL even if they paid?

Jason

You might solve the problem with a public-private cooperative measure. Say, for instance, requiring any institution that accepts government grants, bailouts, or subsidy to provide public restrooms.

Rym

How does restricting restroom use to paying customers increase lines?

OK, so how do you enforce it? Give a physical key to each customer, who now has to wait in line to get it and use it, and then return it? I don't think you understand how crowded Starbucks are here most of the time, or the sheer number of people trying to use the restroom (most of whom ARE going to buy something).

The door would be held open, and there would be a line at the door. Some employee would have to keep managing it, asking people to show receipts, handling the poo-encrusted key, etc...

How exactly do you propose to handle it? You'll have ten customers at a time all lined up to buy something, and each one asking to use the bathroom once they make their purchase.

Also, don't discount the cleaning load. Those bathrooms are FILTHY and require cleaning many times a day.

Starbucks clearly decided that any loss of business was well worth the savings by not having to deal with ANY public restroom issues.

The problem is like I said, people will buy a drink, and then hang out for an hour or two or all day doing stuff and then they gotta pee, and you're just gonna tell them they're SOL even if they paid?

The vast majority of Starbucks customers do not drink their beverage at the Starbucks itself.

KapitänTim

Just bring an empty cup and wear a long jacket. While waiting for your coffee fill the cup and when they hand you your coffee hand them your cup.

Jack Draigo

I was gonna say they have to show a receipt in order to get in the restroom, but you could have an actual bouncer at the door instead of having an employee managing a key like you suggested then look, we're creating jobs. And also if they had actual restrooms instead of a toilet in a supply closet (I don't know I don't go to the establishment) then they might not have to worry about lines so much.

Rym

You again fail to understand how many people use these restrooms every day. They're supply closet-sized because real-estate is prohibitively expensive and were provided solely as an optional amenity. Making them large enough to accommodate the load would make them as large as the establishments within which they reside.

A bouncer is an employee, which costs a lot of money and provides nothing except mitigating the expenses of an entirely optional and unnecessary facility.

Jason

How about pay $2 for the Starbucks code-swipe app on your smartphone for access to X number of bathroom uses per month?

Nuri

This is more of an issue in a place like NYC where space is at a premium and places like Starbucks do not necessarily have the room to install a large, multi-stall restroom. Not only that, but there are lots of City permits to get and regulations to comply with to get hooked up to the sewer; large restrooms may not be allowed for a small store.

It is not practical to expect every coffeeshop in the City to provide public restrooms. That's why it's not required.

George Patches

You again fail to understand how many people use these restrooms every day. They're supply closet-sized because real-estate is prohibitively expensive and were provided solely as an optional amenity. Making them large enough to accommodate the load would make them as large as the establishments within which they reside.

So where will the city get the space/money to have public restrooms?

Nuri

You again fail to understand how many people use these restrooms every day. They're supply closet-sized because real-estate is prohibitively expensive and were provided solely as an optional amenity. Making them large enough to accommodate the load would make them as large as the establishments within which they reside.

So where will the city get the space/money to have public restrooms?

Eminent domain + taxes and permit fees. The City can take your property for a public use as long as they pay you fair market value for it. They can impose fees or taxes on sewer hookups/use that pay for the public restrooms. They could tax businesses that do not provide public restrooms in order to pay for them. This tax would certainly cost the business much less than maintaining its own public restroom.

Rym

How about pay $2 for the Starbucks code-swipe app on your smartphone for access to X number of bathroom uses per month?

There's a business model. Public for-pay restrooms. Starbucks probably doesn't want to be in the business, but anyone else is welcome to open some poopers in the City.

So where will the city get the space/money to have public restrooms?

Eminent Domain coupled with possibly using tax dollars to subsidize the provision of restrooms in private businesses?

Nuri

@Rym: Ha, beat you to it. :P

WindUpBird

Put an electronic lock on the bathroom door. Every purchase in excess of the cost of a small cup of black coffee gets a unique code that expires in 15 minutes printed on the receipt. Feed the receipt into a scanner on the lock, the door unlocks, boom. No bouncers required, no more revolting bathrooms.

You could even do what the places here in Europe do and charge a eat-in and an eat-out price. The extra cost of items taken to eat-in cover bathroom maintenance and keeping the restaurant clean as hell.

Rym

Put an electronic lock on the bathroom door. Every purchase in excess of the cost of a small cup of black coffee gets a unique code that expires in 15 minutes printed on the receipt. Feed the receipt into a scanner on the lock, the door unlocks, boom. No bouncers required, no more revolting bathrooms.

And the bathroom is still a poo-covered mess requiring constant cleaning. Also, anyone leaving the room will just hold the door open for the next person in line (or hovering near the door).

It would also be expensive to implement.