Teachers, is this true?

SquadronROE

I know some of you out there may be currently teachers, and may have something like a few years teaching.. so do you find that the spirit of this image is true? Do parents place blame for poor performance on teachers?

The few parents I know don't seem to do that, they are well aware of their offspring's misbehavior and/or poor grades.

Jason

It is true that a minority of parents act this way, but those few can be both morally and legally draining (my wife and her sister are both teachers, so I hear stories). What is worse is that Ohio legislators seem to think the same way. They want teachers' pay to be based on student grades. Unfortunately, they don't seem to realize that teachers cannot force students to achieve.

gomidog

My cousin was an English teacher in a fancy prep school. There was a certain type of parent who could not accept that their little genius had somehow flunked his writing class, and would be super obnoxious about it. It was one of the things that eventually drove her to go back to grad school for her doctorate.

Matt

My personal experience leaves me with little hope for the education of my children. I went to a university known as the best teaching school in the state. (I am not a teacher myself. I went there for the kick-ass engineering program. 10 years ago, a super rich dude came and dropped several hundred million bucks on the school, saying "hey, you can have this check, but only if you spend the whole thing on starting up an engineering college.")

The quality of people I saw getting teaching degrees there was appalling. 5 years later they are all well into their careers, and my Facebook feed reads like the League of Horrible Educators. I'm frightened.

Teaching as a profession is becoming increasingly difficult b/c of the reasons in the comic above, among others such as the legislative meddling that Jason pointed out. At the same time, they are being underpaid! I'm not saying every teacher is like this, but I've seen too many people decide to get into the field b/c of the astonishingly good benefits and the summers off. They are lazy people with no actual passion to teach, and when we're both 40, they are going to suck so hard at their jobs its not even funny.

ninjarabbi

I really don't have much faith in our education system. Its not just teachers, its just the way things work. I'm not saying I know how to fix it, but there is definitely something wrong. I've failed tests where I knew the material, and aced ones where I didn't know shit. I've had teachers who blatantly lost student's papers and a couple others who I'm pretty sure changed student's grades for the better. Plus there are so many shitty students out there that blame their teachers that it makes it look even worse.

FarliamentPunkadelic

This is why I teach at the college level. Ferpa laws prohibit this exact situation from occurring. Someone's little darling got a bad grade and they want to know why? Well tough. Their kid is no longer a kid, but an adult and he/she has confidentiality. If the student wants to tell them why he/she failed then so be it but the course policies and grading practices are outlined in the syllabus. No discussion can occur unless the student waives those rights to confidentiality.

jtvh

do you find that the spirit of this image is true? Do parents place blame for poor performance on teachers?

The few parents I know don't seem to do that, they are well aware of their offspring's misbehavior and/or poor grades.

The problem with the spirit of this image is that it seems to imply that our education system was somehow better 50 years ago. Seems to me (as a parent myself, and as the daughter of an educational publisher), the problems change from time to time, but it's not like things were hunky-dorey and now super-entitled helicopter parents and their bratty progeny screwed everything up.

I've seen plenty of finger-pointing between teachers, parents, and students. Sometimes there's plenty of blame to go around. I've also seen plenty of mutually-supportive working relationships where everybody's got the student's best interests at heart (even if people are imperfect, as people must be, and do make mistakes).

The other parents I'm close to generally have a decent level of understanding about their kids' achievements and challenges. But then again, there's a selection bias here; I don't choose to be close to parents who aren't paying attention to their kids.

Greg

In the defense of the last 50 years of education development, we don't teach new math anymore.

jtvh

In the defense of the last 50 years of education development, we don't teach new math anymore.

I see your new math, and raise the open classroom.

Greg

What is most striking is that there are no desks for pupils or teachers. Instead, the room is arranged as a workshop.
Carelessly draped over the seat, arm, and back of a big old easy chair are three children, each reading to himself. Several other children nearby sprawl comfortably on a covered mattress on the floor, rehearsing a song they have written and copied into a song folio.

Isn't that precisely the type school you sent me to for 7 years?

GreatTeacherMacRoss

This is not the case with parents who actually care. Any teacher worth their salt are also going to have air-tight grading systems, so they can show parents how their child has not handed in work, or done poorly on said work.

jtvh

Isn't that precisely the type school you sent me to for 7 years?

Nope. Progressive education and open classroom do have some similarities, but progressive education does have more actual instruction. My teacher literally assigned no work and gave no instruction for 3 years.

EDIT: Actually I might be exaggerating. I just remembered him giving a talk on creative writing at some point.

This is not the case with parents who actually care. Any teacher worth their salt are also going to have air-tight grading systems, so they can show parents how their child has not handed in work, or done poorly on said work.

Amen. A clearly-stated rubric is a beautiful thing.

Jason

This is not the case with parents who actually care. Any teacher worth their salt are also going to have air-tight grading systems, so they can show parents how their child has not handed in work, or done poorly on said work.

You've never had a parent who fundamentally disagreed with the methodology or curriculum, who chucked your grading system as either prejudiced or too demanding/not demanding enough, airtight though it may be? I've been exposed to a lot of school board meetings in my career, and I've heard parents (many with learning disabilities) get so upset on indefensible grounds that they've actually frothed at the mouth.

ninjarabbi

I know what you mean. Most of those parents are dumber than their kids.

Jack Draigo

Uh yeah that's pretty much true. My mother was about driven to homicide due to idiot parents.

GreatTeacherMacRoss

This is not the case with parents who actually care. Any teacher worth their salt are also going to have air-tight grading systems, so they can show parents how their child has not handed in work, or done poorly on said work.

You've never had a parent who fundamentally disagreed with the methodology or curriculum, who chucked your grading system as either prejudiced or too demanding/not demanding enough, airtight though it may be? I've been exposed to a lot of school board meetings in my career, and I've heard parents (many with learning disabilities) get so upset on indefensible grounds that they've actually frothed at the mouth.

If I was teaching in a regular school, My methodology and rubrics would be available at the beginning of the semester/project. If a student's parent felt that my grading methods were inappropriate and were not just accusing me of slighting their child for some reason, I would immediately seek to have my principal or head of department back me up. My goal is not to make a student or parent happy, it is to teach. I only report grades and report how a student is doing in the class, I do not 'give' grades. As a responsible teacher, I would have records of all work a child did (or did not) do.
If a parent would go so far as to tell me I have no idea what I am doing and disagree with my methods and grading policies, my general response would be "Tough. I have the degree that proves I know what I'm doing."
I have had parents come to me in the past who have children that have outright lied to them about what was going on. Each time, I have easily and soundly proved to them that their child was full of shit, and was attempting to shift blame away from their laziness or bad behavior or other issue onto some imagined dislike or unequal treatment on my part. I have never lost an argument with a parent, and the student always looks worse for it.

Ikatono

Those are definitely good policies, but coincidentally the one teacher I've ever had who really did that was one of the two I blame for my bad grades. Basically, his grading is all but entirely dependent on matching his ridiculous formatting rules. One of these rules he made up in the middle of the year, then pretended it had been a rule all along. He keeps all of the assignments, so it's impossible to use them as a reference. Other times he takes off points for nonsensical reasons. One of our more recent assignments was to interview a teacher about our strengths and weaknesses and write about it. I lost 5 out of 50 points because the answers the teacher gave were too vague. Another times he gave a worksheet for homework. The worksheet had a modern depiction of the Last Supper that we were supposed to meditate on , then answer 4 questions. The first question was "Who was at the Last Supper with Jesus?" I 0 credit for this question because it was a modern depiction, so they clearly weren't the 12 apostles like I said. The second question was "What do you think Jesus is preaching about?" and of course I shouldn't have said "mutual service" (a topic we had recently been talking about) but instead "the results of mutual service". 0 credit. I can't remember what the third question was, but the answer was "mutual service" and I got 0 credit. I got full credit for the last question, making my total grade a 25%. And, despite only requiring 4 single-sentence answers, this worksheet was the second most heavily weighted grade this quarter.


The aforementioned woodcut

TL;DR: Clear-cut policies certainly help, but dumb teachers can still pull bullshit. Of course, that tends to be pretty obvious.

Jack Draigo

It is true that a minority of parents act this way, but those few can be both morally and legally draining (my wife and her sister are both teachers, so I hear stories). What is worse is that Ohio legislators seem to think the same way. They want teachers' pay to be based on student grades. Unfortunately, they don't seem to realize that teachers cannot force students to achieve.

Of course they can. We just gotta bring back corporal punishment.

Captainbubby

I teach in a primary school which is essentially right in the middle of a low socio-economic government housing zone. This cartoon certainly does ring true for me, but that is more due to the fact that one common phenomenon I regularly encounter is the extremely poor locus of control observed by many of my student's parents.

For those unfamiliar with the term, "locus of control", it pertains to Julian B. Rotter's theories on the psychology of personality which essentially measures the extent an individual will attribute their fortunes (more often misfortunes) on forces outside of their control.

Naturally, a low locus of control is quite prevalent in low socio-economic communities. Naturally, this extends to the children as well. It can't possibly be little junior's fault!

Jack Draigo

If I was teaching in a regular school, My methodology and rubrics would be available at the beginning of the semester/project. If a student's parent felt that my grading methods were inappropriate and were not just accusing me of slighting their child for some reason, I would immediately seek to have my principal or head of department back me up. My goal is not to make a student or parent happy, it is to teach. I only report grades and report how a student is doing in the class, I do not 'give' grades. As a responsible teacher, I would have records of all work a child did (or did not) do.
If a parent would go so far as to tell me I have no idea what I am doing and disagree with my methods and grading policies, my general response would be "Tough. I have the degree that proves I know what I'm doing."
I have had parents come to me in the past who have children that have outright lied to them about what was going on. Each time, I have easily and soundly proved to them that their child was full of shit, and was attempting to shift blame away from their laziness or bad behavior or other issue onto some imagined dislike or unequal treatment on my part. I have never lost an argument with a parent, and the student always looks worse for it.

It certainly is good to have the head of your institution to back you up, but one problem my mother ran into was that she nor any other teacher had the principal to cover them. Well, I should say the vice-principal, because the principal did jack-shit. The children (middle school) were out of control to begin with, but it seemed like any attempt at discipline was met with the parents raising a rabble and the vice-principal getting on the teacher. One woman was outright poisoned and the children involved got a few days ISAP (a relative slap on the wrist). My mother was lucky she was at least hated less than other teachers, and some apparently had mental breakdowns (I know my mother is still a little off kilter since that year). Anecdotally I went to the same middle school my mother teaches at.

The worst part? That class was just a few years behind my own, which was no group of saints but at least my peers didn't make my poor mother break down in tears at least once a week when she got home.

2bfree

Interesting article about Americans taking the wrong lessons from Finland's success in education.
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/what-americans-keep-ignoring-about-finlands-school-success/250564/

Kate Monster

One woman was outright poisoned and the children involved got a few days ISAP (a relative slap on the wrist).

The victim had the right to press charges. If she didn't and the children did not get their due, that was her choice.

SquadronROE

One woman was outright poisoned and the children involved got a few days ISAP (a relative slap on the wrist).

The victim had the right to press charges. If she didn't and the children did not get their due, that was her choice.

Interesting side note, if I'm not mistaken the State pushes forward with charges and the investigation. The victim doesn't make that decision, although most cops I know will respect the victim's wishes unless there's complications. The biggest one that comes to mind is a victim of domestic violence trying to not press charges when the violence is repeated and there's the likelihood of it happening again.

Kate Monster

One woman was outright poisoned and the children involved got a few days ISAP (a relative slap on the wrist).

The victim had the right to press charges. If she didn't and the children did not get their due, that was her choice.

Interesting side note, if I'm not mistaken the State pushes forward with charges and the investigation. The victim doesn't make that decision, although most cops I know will respect the victim's wishes unless there's complications. The biggest one that comes to mind is a victim of domestic violence trying to not press charges when the violence is repeated and there's the likelihood of it happening again.

He/she can raise a stink. Additionally, a civil suit is always an option.

Dragonmaster Lou

Well, this past weekend I was at my extended family's Christmas party (yeah, a little late, but that's because it was the first available weekend all of us could get together, and Christmas day is typically reserved for quiet time with just immediate family in my family) and this issue came up. Note that I have a family full of teachers: my mother and uncle are retired teachers and I have two aunts, another uncle, and a second cousin who are also teachers and who all attended this party. Plus my mother-in-law is also a teacher. Anyway, pretty much they all felt this situation was very true given their experience.

Jack Draigo

I don't know how it ended and I'm not sure I want to bring it up, I can only hope everything possible was tried but I have a feeling the aforementioned vice-principal dicked around with it in some way.