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The "Here's what that character SHOULD have done" Argument

GeorgeC.GeorgeC.
edited July 2012 in Movies
So I often have this argument with my friends. They watch a movie/show and end up disliking the piece because of character behavior. They try to convince me "here's what that character SHOULD have done." I've got two instances:

After enjoying Inception together I asked Friend A, "What did you think about Cobb's character and his attachment to his wife?" Friend A's responses with "That part of the movie was dumb, he needed to get over his wife issues and just handle his business." I explained, "But the whole point of having unresolved issues with his wife was so Cobb and the audience could learn from their experience." Friend A responds with "lol, I knew all this shiet already. Cobb's character was annoying."

Yesterday Friend B and I were discussing an Episode of Friendship is Magic, A Friend In Deed. I said "actual character interaction throughout was solid gold but psudo-Chekhov's gun ending was dumb." Friend B then starts to ranting, "Man, I hate that episode! If the donkey just gave into Pinkie Pie's demand for a second, he can get it over with and go on his marry way!"

This happen to you? Is projecting yourselves onto a character reasonable or unrealistic? There wouldn't BE a story if everyone behaved logically or without emotions.
Post edited by GeorgeC. on
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Comments

  • muppetmuppet
    The problem is when behavior is contrived and uncharacteristic in order to create drama, not when characters are illogical or emotive.

    I don't remember Inception all that well and I haven't seen any MLP so I can't comment on your specific examples. :)
  • RymRym
    Scott hated Bringing Up Baby. "He should have just punched her in the face!"
  • MattMatt
    I've had this happen to me before. I hated The Breakfast Club because of this. Those kids were all idiots.

    It crops up when you are meant to care about a character or cast of characters through pity, b/c of the consequences of their own actions. It's not a matter of whether the decisions they make are realistic or not (there are exceptions to every rule), it just comes down to whether those decisions where dumb. I have trouble feeling sympathetic towards the dumb decision maker.
  • ChurbaChurba
    edited July 2012
    I hated The Breakfast Club because of this. Those kids were all idiots.
    Well fuck you too.
    Post edited by Churba on
  • Not nineNot nine
    edited July 2012
    I hated The Breakfast Club because of this. Those kids were all idiots.
    What did we ever do to you? You fucking prick.
    Post edited by Not nine on
  • Anthony HemanAnthony Heman
    Fuck. I apply this logic to every reality television show ever. "If I were there, I'd have turned the show around on them because fuck reality television."
  • Dragonmaster LouDragonmaster Lou
    Women in horror movies should take off their high heels before running. That solves a lot of these problems. :)
  • RochelleRochelle
    Or don't wear high heels in the first place. You never know when you may need to run.
  • MATATATMATATAT
    edited July 2012
    There are plenty of people in the world that act illogically and it is a little startling to realize sometimes. This also varies from situation to situation. It's really only a problem when someone does something that is completely out of their character to progress a situation or if it is completely forced and unnatural seeming.
    Or don't wear high heels in the first place. You never know when you may need to run.
    While playing Dead Island a couple days ago with my friend I noticed the Asian lady character he had chosen is running around battling zombies in high heels. Also I just realized she is wearing random full business attire on a resort island.
    Post edited by MATATAT on
  • Nine BoomerNine Boomer
    edited July 2012
    I hated The Breakfast Club because of this. Those kids were all idiots.
    Just because I'm young doesn't mean I'm too dumb to make good decisions you twat.

    Post edited by Nine Boomer on
  • ChurbaChurba
    While playing Dead Island a couple days ago with my friend I noticed the Asian lady character he had chosen is running around battling zombies in high heels. Also I just realized she is wearing random full business attire on a resort island.
    No, she's wearing what looks like a Hotel worker's uniform, torn up - which makes sense, since she was sent to work at the hotel, to spy on rich westerners.

    Still, the question remains as to why she didn't just kick off the high heels and grab some runners or a good pair of boots like purna's.
  • MATATATMATATAT
    No, she's wearing what looks like a Hotel worker's uniform, torn up - which makes sense, since she was sent to work at the hotel, to spy on rich westerners.

    Still, the question remains as to why she didn't just kick off the high heels and grab some runners or a good pair of boots like purna's.
    Hahaha I have no idea what the hell is going on in the game at all. I've just been driving the car off of cliffs in attempts to hit stray zombies.
  • Dragonmaster LouDragonmaster Lou
    Or don't wear high heels in the first place. You never know when you may need to run.
    True, although I'm assuming that the woman in question has a semi-legitimate reason to wear them -- work uniform, likes wearing them to formal occasions, etc. Of course, once the axe murderer appears, kick them off and run barefoot.
  • ChurbaChurba
    Or don't wear high heels in the first place. You never know when you may need to run.
    True, although I'm assuming that the woman in question has a semi-legitimate reason to wear them -- work uniform, likes wearing them to formal occasions, etc. Of course, once the axe murderer appears, kick them off and run barefoot.
    Well, yeah, she had a legit reason, it WAS her work uniform. And it isn't practical to kick them off, since the ground outside is frequently covered in glass, debris, etc, etc.

    HOWEVER - you see shoes lying around, there are many, many bags of stuff left in the hotel and the bungalows, she could have easily found some other shoes that would fit.

  • GeorgeC.GeorgeC.
    I've had this happen to me before. I hated The Breakfast Club because of this. Those kids were all idiots.
    I can say that I understand where you're coming from. Some people can't relate to the futility the characters experience in the film. But I wouldn't call the characters of The Breakfast Club dumb decision makers. They acknowledge their problems but just lacked the ability to overcome obstacles.

    Bender was a wild card though, I'm not completely sure of myself if his character's redemption was earned or not.
  • GreyHugeGreyHuge
    I've had this happen to me before. I hated The Breakfast Club because of this. Those kids were all idiots.
    You have made many enemies this day.

  • Anthony HemanAnthony Heman
    I don't mind it when they pull the trope of, "Character keeps secrets from friends to keep them happy, learns that they should have been honest from the beginning." I do mind it when they pull that same number with the same character repeatedly. It's a sitcom move that just gets tiring, ad nauseum.
  • Li_AkahiLi_Akahi
    Or don't wear high heels in the first place. You never know when you may need to run.
    True, although I'm assuming that the woman in question has a semi-legitimate reason to wear them -- work uniform, likes wearing them to formal occasions, etc. Of course, once the axe murderer appears, kick them off and run barefoot.
    Well, yeah, she had a legit reason, it WAS her work uniform. And it isn't practical to kick them off, since the ground outside is frequently covered in glass, debris, etc, etc.

    HOWEVER - you see shoes lying around, there are many, many bags of stuff left in the hotel and the bungalows, she could have easily found some other shoes that would fit.

    But they wouldn't match her purse!

  • YoshoKatanaYoshoKatana
    edited July 2012
    This is the primary reason I didn't like Freaks and Geeks. A lot of the conflict was started by the trope of "there was a misunderstanding, and the characters didn't even try to talk about it but rather blew it out of proportion." I hate that trope.

    EDIT: Also, maybe the high heels thing was her being an unrepentent badass? One of the Console Freeplay enforcers blackshifts in heels every PAX, and it's fucking impressive. (I'm actually a little terrified of her. She's hardcore.)
    Post edited by YoshoKatana on
  • ChurbaChurba
    Or don't wear high heels in the first place. You never know when you may need to run.
    True, although I'm assuming that the woman in question has a semi-legitimate reason to wear them -- work uniform, likes wearing them to formal occasions, etc. Of course, once the axe murderer appears, kick them off and run barefoot.
    Well, yeah, she had a legit reason, it WAS her work uniform. And it isn't practical to kick them off, since the ground outside is frequently covered in glass, debris, etc, etc.

    HOWEVER - you see shoes lying around, there are many, many bags of stuff left in the hotel and the bungalows, she could have easily found some other shoes that would fit.

    But they wouldn't match her purse!

    This is a secret agent we're talking about, not Apreche. :p

  • Victor FrostVictor Frost
    While my brother is watching "Bey Blades", my dad and I are in the kitchen making lunch.

    Me: I don't get this.
    Dad: Get what?
    Me: This guy Kyoya is saying he going to destroy Jinga's top. Kyoya is all alone; Jinga has, like, five friends with him. Why don't they just go beat the shit out of him?
    Dad: What?
    Me: Yeah, I mean, seriously. This guy is causing all kinds of trouble for their friend and they're just standing there shouting shit like, "You can do it, Jinga!" and "You gotta believe in the blader spirit" and shit like that. You know what they should be shouting? "Hey, asshole. You've got five seconds to scram or else we're gonna beat the ever loving shit out of you, then shove that Bey so far up your ass your shit'll come out spinning."
    Dad: (laughs)
    Me: And what the hell is with the adults of that world? You've got these tops that can destroy buildings and spawn fire and stuff... Who puts things THAT POWERFUL in the hands of children?
    Dad: What about pokemon?
    Me: Okay, yeah, but at least if a pokemon trainer is doing something really evil most pokemon will stop and be like, "Hey uh... No."
  • GeoGeo
    I've had this happen to me before. I hated The Breakfast Club because of this. Those kids were all idiots.
    You have made many enemies this day.

    First you stupidly hate Aaron Sorkin, now this...

  • ChurbaChurba
    edited July 2012
    I've had this happen to me before. I hated The Breakfast Club because of this. Those kids were all idiots.
    You have made many enemies this day.

    First you stupidly hate Aaron Sorkin, now this...

    Dude, The FRC breakfast club. Look up the thread - everyone making those responses are people from the FRC breakfast club. That's the joke.

    Post edited by Churba on
  • WalkerWalker
    I've had this happen to me before. I hated The Breakfast Club because of this. Those kids were all idiots.
    We're pretty stupid.

  • Not nineNot nine
    edited July 2012
    I've had this happen to me before. I hated The Breakfast Club because of this. Those kids were all idiots.
    We're pretty stupid.
    Oh yeah, sexy, sexy FRC Breakfast Club people.
    Post edited by Not nine on
  • GeorgeC.GeorgeC.
    I've had this happen to me before. I hated The Breakfast Club because of this. Those kids were all idiots.
    We're pretty stupid.
    Oh yeah, sexy, sexy FRC Breakfast Club people.
    Can we still talk about The Breakfast Club movie? I liked that movie.
  • ChurbaChurba
    I've had this happen to me before. I hated The Breakfast Club because of this. Those kids were all idiots.
    We're pretty stupid.
    Oh yeah, sexy, sexy FRC Breakfast Club people.
    Can we still talk about The Breakfast Club movie? I liked that movie.
    Dear Mega,

    You may, of course.

    Signed,
    John Bender.

  • MattMatt
    I've had this happen to me before. I hated The Breakfast Club because of this. Those kids were all idiots.
    You have made many enemies this day.

    First you stupidly hate Aaron Sorkin, now this...

    They both suck.

  • gomidoggomidog
    I think if someone wants to talk character motivations as a critique of the writing, that is fine. If a character acts in an inconsistent manner, or if their choice of action does not seem to have proper motivation or seems contrived, I think it is perfectly reasonable to bring that up in a discussion of a film. However, many times I think people tend to more or less say "I would have done things differently." They need to realize that perhaps that character acted in that way for a good narrative reason. You are not the character, that character in that situation is different from you and perhaps that difference makes the movie more interesting.
    Case in point, I think I would make a really boring Shojo romance heroine because I would talk things out with the boys right away and probably be asking THEM out within the second chapter. However, that story could not work well with that kind of main character because the romance has to be all teasing and dokidoki.
  • GeoGeo
    edited July 2012
    I've had this happen to me before. I hated The Breakfast Club because of this. Those kids were all idiots.
    You have made many enemies this day.

    First you stupidly hate Aaron Sorkin, now this...

    Dude, The FRC breakfast club. Look up the thread - everyone making those responses are people from the FRC breakfast club. That's the joke.

    Yeah I know. It was a lame joke that is neither funny nor interesting. The Breakfast Club is far more interesting and awesome, contrary to what that outlier, Matt, says.

    Post edited by Geo on
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