It's yet another company with unconvincing claims about how super deadly their weird looking hollowpoints are, and pretending that nobody has had exactly this of this idea before. I've probably seen more "Wonder bullets" and "Last round you'll ever need" rounds than I can name different types of round. And no, they won't catch on with law enforcement, the millitary, or most civilian shooters, and I can tell you exactly why - and it has nothing to do with the fact that these rounds don't really show significantly better ballistic performance than most other rounds.
As always with "wonder bullets", These rounds are FUCKING EXPENSIVE. They're 50-ish bucks per 20 rounds in the 9mm. Meanwhile, a box of 100 Winchester FMJ 9mm is about $28-$30, if you know where to shop. Or, if you MUST have hollowpoints because reasons, you're still paying very roughly half the price per 50 compared to the RIPs per 20.
Edit - Slight disclaimer, I might be slightly high or low with US ammo prices. I'm taking from what friends buy, and for how much. The RIP rounds, however, I'm taking their MSRP, which is what they seem to be selling for online.
Everything Churba said. I lol'd when they said their round was CNC machined. I loved the list showing all the things their 9mm could penetrate, basically all things that regular 9mm has no trouble penetrating.
You think that's funny, I remember an article from back around when these hit the market earlier in the year, where a dude was testing them vs regular hollowpoints, which they didn't outperform except in the "minor shrapnel wound" category. Even better, he almost exactly replicated the wounding characteristics in gel with...three .22LR, two segmented varmint rounds, and one subsonic small-game round.
Aren't hollowpoints also banned by the Geneva Conventions? Or am I confusing them with a different sort of ammo? IIRC, the Geneva conventions require small arms ammo to leave relatively "clean" wounds and not intentionally be designed to spread out or break up on impact.
The rules for military's in conflict with each other that have signed the relevant conventions/treaties do not apply to how they police themselves at home, as insane as that is.
My trouble with that is that those kind of bullets go entirely against the whole "guns kept for sport or self defense" thing. Those bullets are, 100%, for making sure whatever your shooting at stops living. There's no such thing as a non-lethal shot with those because those little shrapnel bits will make puree out of the organs of whoever is hit by them.
My trouble with that is that those kind of bullets go entirely against the whole "guns kept for sport or self defense" thing. Those bullets are, 100%, for making sure whatever your shooting at stops living. There's no such thing as a non-lethal shot with those because those little shrapnel bits will make puree out of the organs of whoever is hit by them.
No, they won't. When you're not shooting plain gel, and you're shooting a human analog with bones, clothes, and so on, those little chunks will hit all the gubbins in the way and do very little - they weigh fuck-all, they're tiny, and even traveling very fast, they're not going to do much more than create additional minor wounding. Don't buy into the silly marketing hype.
No, they won't. When you're not shooting plain gel, and you're shooting a human analog with bones, clothes, and so on, those little chunks will hit all the gubbins in the way and do very little - they weigh fuck-all, they're tiny, and even traveling very fast, they're not going to do much more than create additional minor wounding. Don't buy into the silly marketing hype.
Yeah but coming from the surgery side of it, getting all the pieces out is insanely annoying, takes a lot more time. More time in surgery leads to increased risk in general anaesthesia. Also You have to worry about smaller lacerations on multiple organs. Recovery takes longer too.
For example when I was taking shot gun pellets out of an "accidentally" shot dog, it was worse than a single bullet wound.
I hadn't thought of it from that side, though I honestly doubt that six-grain slivers of copper would reach much in the way of organs. It looks impressive in a soft-tissue simulating gel block, but as you know - being far better acquainted with the inner selves of creatures, so to speak - both people and animals are not a solid block of relaxed muscle tissue. Remember - the subsonic .22LR went through 15 inches of tissue analog. No way known that the same round would go through someone's chest, which typically isn't 15 inches thick.
Though, I do see your point with the extra time under anesthesia, time in surgery, along with the risks associated with further wounding.
Here's the third video of the above articles, which I missed before - explaining the whole thing I lot better than I could, with extra examples, too, and extra experimentation. Trocars talk and experiments start at about 1:56.
Aren't hollowpoints also banned by the Geneva Conventions? Or am I confusing them with a different sort of ammo? IIRC, the Geneva conventions require small arms ammo to leave relatively "clean" wounds and not intentionally be designed to spread out or break up on impact.
Ah, I missed your post before, and only found it going back looking for something else. It's sort of a yes and no thing - Yes, they are banned, but no, it's not the Geneva Convention, it's the Hague Conventions. That said, that section has also not been ratified by the US.
Ah, I always get the Geneva and Hague Conventions confused (and always forget the Hague ones). Didn't know the US didn't ratify the hollowpoint section though. FWIW, I think the US military while technically able to use hollowpoints due to not ratifying that section, in practice they don't use them just to avoid all the bad PR and all that.
You didn't know ballistics gel existed? Have you never watched an episode of Mythbusters?
To be fair, he might have known about the jelly, but didn't know what it was called or about, and didn't know it was so fun to shoot. Also fun to shoot - Cheap soft-drink bottles. Reactive targets at cents on the dollar!
A bullet is a relatively small piece of metal flying really really fast. What is the physics reason the watermelon explodes? Why doesn't the bullet just make a tiny hole straight through the watermelon without damaging the rest of it? If it was a needle fired from a gauss cannon, it would probably go straight through. How small and pointy does the projectile have to be to make a hole rather than an explosion?
Eeyup... although most of my own experience of seeing watermelons getting shot up was from watching R. Lee Ermey's various military history shows over the years. Watermelons were his preferred targets for demonstrating various historical and modern firearms.
Comments
As always with "wonder bullets", These rounds are FUCKING EXPENSIVE. They're 50-ish bucks per 20 rounds in the 9mm. Meanwhile, a box of 100 Winchester FMJ 9mm is about $28-$30, if you know where to shop. Or, if you MUST have hollowpoints because reasons, you're still paying very roughly half the price per 50 compared to the RIPs per 20.
Edit - Slight disclaimer, I might be slightly high or low with US ammo prices. I'm taking from what friends buy, and for how much. The RIP rounds, however, I'm taking their MSRP, which is what they seem to be selling for online.
For example when I was taking shot gun pellets out of an "accidentally" shot dog, it was worse than a single bullet wound.
Though, I do see your point with the extra time under anesthesia, time in surgery, along with the risks associated with further wounding.
Here's the third video of the above articles, which I missed before - explaining the whole thing I lot better than I could, with extra examples, too, and extra experimentation. Trocars talk and experiments start at about 1:56.
I was unaware of this.