Workstations for gaming

Dazzle369

Here's the problem. I want to build a PC that can be used for gaming and work.

What games do I want to play? Doesn't matter, hypothetically all games max settings.

What works programs do I need to run? Photoshop, Maya ...the big ones.


Currently I'm on a Core 2 duo, 4gb, geforce gtx 460, windows 7 32 bit. Mostly it does everything it needs to do, though some of my games are laggy, I know I need to just upgrade my GPU.

Another problem I'm having is, for example in Photoshop with huge files open, lots of history, I click a button to do a thing, then I get a popup.. oops out of memory. Ok i need to upgrade my RAM. So I need more memory. To install more memory I need to upgrade to an 64bit OS. OK, fine.


The main issue is when I want to perform renderings in Maya for example. That shit takes forever, and I don't have forever to spend. Nvidia already provide a 'certified' solution for this.

It's called Quadro. Also Tesla.

Ok, so you would think, simple solution upgrade you're GPU to a Quadro, kill two birds with one stone.

However!

You cannot play games with Quadro GPUs....

Quadro GPU's are stupidly expensive, and the specifications are confusingly lower that that or Geforce GPU's.

I've done some basic google's to find out why this is, and I sort of get it, however none of it solves my problem.

Is there a PC configuration where I can run programs (like maya) off the GPU, and have the GPU not be some crazy expensive GPU that I can't even play games on? and why does that even exist. Why can't there be a GPU that does both? Or at least an SLI setup that allows you to have both functions?

lackofcheese

I don't think you actually need a certified workstation GPU in order to get GPU acceleration, though if money is no object the workstation GPUs are better for such purposes.

Here's some benchmarking of both workstation and desktop GPUs done in late 2012:
AutoDesk Maya 2013
AutoDesk AutoCAD 2013
Adobe Photoshop CS6

I think the overall picture is that most of the time you'll be fine with a desktop GPU, and they're definitely much better in terms of price/performance. Workstation GPUs are more about reliability and accuracy than about performance. That said, in the case of Maya in particular, the workstation GPUs (particularly AMD's) seem to perform much better.

Apreche

My computer would probably work for you. I bought it last year. GTX 680, i7, 32 GB of RAM, Windows 7 64-bit. It runs all the Adobe apps with GPU accelleration. I'm sure it would do fine with Maya and such as Emily uses Maya with lesser GPUs. I can play all games with max settings. I can even run NS2 with max settings, vertical sync 60fps while fraps is recording at 60fps with no frames lost.

trogdor9

Do you come even close to using all that RAM?

Bronzdragon

Listen, the current set-up you have is fine for games if you add a new(er) graphics card. You don't need a lot of RAM for games, nor do you need a lot of CPU. If you're going to build a computer for rendering, I would just make it a second machine. One Quadro card is pretty much the price of a high-end computer anyway, and those are meant to be part of sets. Get a decent CPU, SSD or RAID (depending on what storage you need) and a couple of graphics cards.

I could give better advice if I knew what you were rendering though.

Apreche

Do you come even close to using all that RAM?

I don't keep the RAM monitor open, so I have no idea. Right now I'm using 4GB.

The most I would ever have open at once would be Chrome, Steam, NS2, Fraps, Adobe Media Encoder, iTunes, VirtualBox, and some smaller bits. Not sure how much that uses.

Starfox

32 GB of RAM

This sounds outrageous. I know, I know, RAM is so cheap. But still. 32 gigs.

MATATAT

The point is he can run like 10 VMs at the same time.

lackofcheese

But he doesn't, does he?

Amp

My computer would probably work for you. I bought it last year. GTX 680, i7, 32 GB of RAM, Windows 7 64-bit. It runs all the Adobe apps with GPU accelleration. I'm sure it would do fine with Maya and such as Emily uses Maya with lesser GPUs. I can play all games with max settings. I can even run NS2 with max settings, vertical sync 60fps while fraps is recording at 60fps with no frames lost.

How much did all of that cost?

Dazzle369

The setup I'm aiming to build is GTX 660ti, 32gb ram, windows 7 64bit, so I'm not far off Apreche. I don't think my PSU, PC case or wallet can support the 680.

I was mainly concerned with the GPU since rendering animations is actually what takes the most time.

Programs like Autodesk Showcase eats all my memory and takes forever to render animations even at low quality settings. I have other render programs that run off the CPU that perform better, but don't give me the level of control for animation like the bigger programs. But then when you look at the comparison in performance, Quadro defintely wins for these programs.

I can probably settle for using CPU render software, however it does limit what I can output.

For Photoshop, geforce GPU's and lots of RAM will do.


I still don't see why Nvidia doesn't provide a one size fits all solution. I'm pretty sure it can be done with official driver support too.

Apreche

My computer would probably work for you. I bought it last year. GTX 680, i7, 32 GB of RAM, Windows 7 64-bit. It runs all the Adobe apps with GPU accelleration. I'm sure it would do fine with Maya and such as Emily uses Maya with lesser GPUs. I can play all games with max settings. I can even run NS2 with max settings, vertical sync 60fps while fraps is recording at 60fps with no frames lost.

How much did all of that cost?

When I bought it last July the Newgg invoice was about $2000, but that isn't exactly accurate. That includes things like hard drives I bought for my NAS, an extra SSD. It also doesn't count that I already had some parts that I transferred over from my last PC, namely lots of hard drives.

I took about 5 minutes to quickly whip up this comparable wish list for a full new PC minus monitors using today's hardware and prices on Newegg. I didn't try hard or do much research. Mostly took the highest rated choices. It even includes Boo-Ray burner, SSD, and a magnetic drive. No mouse, keyboard, speakers, headsets.

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=22337506

$1469.91

Apreche

The setup I'm aiming to build is GTX 660ti, 32gb ram, windows 7 64bit, so I'm not far off Apreche. I don't think my PSU, PC case or wallet can support the 680.

I was mainly concerned with the GPU since rendering animations is actually what takes the most time.

Programs like Autodesk Showcase eats all my memory and takes forever to render animations even at low quality settings. I have other render programs that run off the CPU that perform better, but don't give me the level of control for animation like the bigger programs. But then when you look at the comparison in performance, Quadro defintely wins for these programs.

I can probably settle for using CPU render software, however it does limit what I can output.

For Photoshop, geforce GPU's and lots of RAM will do.


I still don't see why Nvidia doesn't provide a one size fits all solution. I'm pretty sure it can be done with official driver support too.

You should be aware that many Adobe apps specifically only support 480, 580, 680. If you have a 660 or 670 some apps won't use the GPU for some things unless you hack them. I think the app literally just checks for the name of the GPU and then decides to turn on accelleration. I had a 680 before Premiere supported the 680, and it was slow. Then a patch came out that added 680 support, and now it is lightning fast.

Dazzle369

That's what I mean, there's no real driver support for Geforce GPU's when it comes to Autodesk apps. Nvidia & Autodesk expect you to fork out cash for a Quadro GPU.

It's not like the hardware can't do the job, it's the software that stops me from being efficient.

I've read online, some people have just taken the Quadro drivers, hacked it to work with Geforce GPUs, but I don't want to go down that shady road to get more performance. I also don't want to unnecessarily buy a Quadro GPU.


Thanks for all the adviceseses by the way. The rest of the internets hasn't been much help.

Amp

My computer would probably work for you. I bought it last year. GTX 680, i7, 32 GB of RAM, Windows 7 64-bit. It runs all the Adobe apps with GPU accelleration. I'm sure it would do fine with Maya and such as Emily uses Maya with lesser GPUs. I can play all games with max settings. I can even run NS2 with max settings, vertical sync 60fps while fraps is recording at 60fps with no frames lost.

How much did all of that cost?

When I bought it last July the Newgg invoice was about $2000, but that isn't exactly accurate. That includes things like hard drives I bought for my NAS, an extra SSD. It also doesn't count that I already had some parts that I transferred over from my last PC, namely lots of hard drives.

I took about 5 minutes to quickly whip up this comparable wish list for a full new PC minus monitors using today's hardware and prices on Newegg. I didn't try hard or do much research. Mostly took the highest rated choices. It even includes Boo-Ray burner, SSD, and a magnetic drive. No mouse, keyboard, speakers, headsets.

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=22337506

$1469.91

That is many more moneis than I have. Bugger.

Bronzdragon

I've read online, some people have just taken the Quadro drivers, hacked it to work with Geforce GPUs, but I don't want to go down that shady road to get more performance. I also don't want to unnecessarily buy a Quadro GPU.

Indeed, you basically pay for the drivers, rather than the actual GPU. The only real difference between a Quadro and a normal GPU is the fancy driver it comes with, and that it doesn't work proper unless you have a couple.

The way these are supposed to be used is an office that does 3D work buys a couple, builds a server out of them, then networks that computer. When you need to do a render, send the work off to that computer, and you'll get the result back. I don't think this sort of set-up is right for your home. For you, I'd recommend doubling your RAM, upgrading to an i5 (or i3) and getting a new video card. You could buy another 460 and SLI it, but I think you'd be better off buying a new one, and then SLI-ing later (or now).

Bronzdragon

$1469.91

That is many more moneis than I have. Bugger.

His computer is overpriced. You can get away easily with a $750 machine. Lower if you have some parts already. It'll play every game out of the box.

Apreche

$1469.91

That is many more moneis than I have. Bugger.

His computer is overpriced. You can get away easily with a $750 machine. Lower if you have some parts already. It'll play every game out of the box.

This is very true. For $750 you can get something that plays every game out of the box very well. This $1500 beast will play games that haven't even come out yet at full frames max settings. It's insane.

Rym

At the same time, I built my current computer in 2009, and it'll play games up to CS:GO and NS2 at full frame rate, and still chugs through video editing like a champ. But, I invested extra in the i7-920 and other niceties, and built the thing toward upgrading it.

It's still got a GTX-260, so "full frame rate" requires vsync being off for many games. I'm sticking a GTX-680 in there as soon as prices drop, and hope to keep this computer at least another full year or more.

Video card and disk IO are the only bottlenecks of any note. The latter wold be eliminated if I replaced my system disk with an SSD. (Windows used to be on an SSD, but it was too small, and Windows eventually outgrew it).

Bronzdragon

But, I invested extra in the i7-920 and other niceties, and built the thing toward upgrading it.

Out of curiosity, do you know what the differerence between the i5s and the i7s are? I'll tell you. The only differnce is that the i7s support hyperthreading. Do you know which OS doesn't support hyperthreading? Windows. If you're running Windows, there is no reason to have an i7.

(Yes, some applications support hyper threading by themselves, but they are few and far between. Sony Vegas and Photoshop have no support, and Maya runs worse).

Apreche

Pretty sure Windows does support it. Isn't that why my quad core shows up as 8?

Amp

$1469.91

That is many more moneis than I have. Bugger.

His computer is overpriced. You can get away easily with a $750 machine. Lower if you have some parts already. It'll play every game out of the box.

This is very true. For $750 you can get something that plays every game out of the box very well. This $1500 beast will play games that haven't even come out yet at full frames max settings. It's insane.

So what would go into a $750 box? If its something that can run modern games and will run for a while then that suits me, I just don't know how to go about it.

Anthony Heman

I have no idea what the differences are now, but when they first added the i7s and the i5s, there were more differences. The first i7s were triple-channel memory controllers built into the processor, while the i5s were dual channel. Then they added those on-cpu gpu things.

lackofcheese

Pretty sure Windows does support it. Isn't that why my quad core shows up as 8?

Yes. That being said, Hyper-Threading is hit-and-miss in terms of performance benefits.

Currently, the difference between the Ivy Bridge i7s and the i5s is Hyper-Threading, 100MHz extra clock speed, and 2MB extra L3 cache. On the whole, it isn't really worth the $90 price difference.

Apreche

$1469.91

That is many more moneis than I have. Bugger.

His computer is overpriced. You can get away easily with a $750 machine. Lower if you have some parts already. It'll play every game out of the box.

This is very true. For $750 you can get something that plays every game out of the box very well. This $1500 beast will play games that haven't even come out yet at full frames max settings. It's insane.

So what would go into a $750 box? If its something that can run modern games and will run for a while then that suits me, I just don't know how to go about it.

Like this?

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=21579912

Bronzdragon

So what would go into a $750 box?

Start with this list. Upgrade/downgrade parts if you want a shinier/less shiny part.

Rym

Note that I also have six slots for RAM. They are all full.

I also cared about the specific benchmark of "encoding video." Encoding video is CPU bound, but also IO bound. Lots of RAM, plus hyperthreading, can mitigate the latter to a substantial degree. Benchmarks showed a nice difference between i5 and i7 for that task.

My i7 is from the previous generation with a different naming scheme: an i7-920.
http://ark.intel.com/products/37147/Intel-Core-i7-920-Processor-8M-Cache-2_66-GHz-4_80-GTs-Intel-QPI

The i5s at the time were notably apart from the i7s, but the price difference was relatively narrow.


I built this computer for the longest haul I've ever taken a computer through.

Apreche

So what would go into a $750 box?

Start with this list. Upgrade/downgrade parts if you want a shinier/less shiny part.

I do not agree with this site. It seems to suggest SLI too often. IMHO you are better off in most cases with one 680 than two of something lesser. Since my one 680 gets full frames on max settings, there is no reason to get two 680s either.

I also do not like how the site always suggest you get a non-stock CPU cooler. The CPU always comes with a fan. There is nothing wrong with that fan. In fact, it is a great fan. It is very quiet, and works well. There is no reason to replace it other than overclocking, and you should never overclock.

Amp

$1469.91

That is many more moneis than I have. Bugger.

His computer is overpriced. You can get away easily with a $750 machine. Lower if you have some parts already. It'll play every game out of the box.

This is very true. For $750 you can get something that plays every game out of the box very well. This $1500 beast will play games that haven't even come out yet at full frames max settings. It's insane.

So what would go into a $750 box? If its something that can run modern games and will run for a while then that suits me, I just don't know how to go about it.

Like this?

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=21579912

So what would go into a $750 box?

Start with this list. Upgrade/downgrade parts if you want a shinier/less shiny part.

Cheers guys I shall sit down with the note book and get to work.

Rym

There is no reason to replace it other than overclocking, and you should never overclock.

Well, I overclocked my Athlon k7-800 for substantial framerate improvements in FPSs back at RIT.

However, I made no changes to the cooling, and I accepted the inevitable instability.

Anthony Heman

I'm with Scott on the SLI and the stock fan with the caveat that you should consider the ambient conditions of your environment in that context. If your computer is going to be in a place with inadequate air flow or an unusual ambient temperature, or you need absolute silence, you might want to consider options.

Personally I have so much space in my apartment that my computer has its own room and it sits on a raised platform in the center. As opposed to my last place where I had it in a crowded little spot between the desk and the bed. Now the thing is silent and cool at all times (and the room temperature doesn't climb).