Penn & Teller

Dr. Timo

I have always liked Penn and Teller as performers, I occasionally watch "You fooled me" and particularly enjoy the insight they give into their tricks such as this very nice interview about the red ball trick.

BUT, as skeptics they have always rubbed me the wrong way. I can not watch a single episode of Bullshit! They seem to me to be Show Biz people first and skeptics second; not above preferring a personal stance or populist argument in favor of solid science and certainly exaggerating, albeit true, facts to favor pizzaz instead of level headed critique.

I am fine with their choice of this style and far be it from me to demand anyone be right 100% of the time, but when confronted with the thruth the correct course is to own up to your mistake. It is a sign of self delusion if not outright hypocrisy to qualify or evade the issue when apologizing for your mistakes.

This piece explains the issue quite more extensively and eloquently than I can.

I thought to bring it up since both Rym and Scott (as well as many forumites) are fans of P&T particularly for their efforts with skepticism. Getting unambiguous issues such as global warming or smoking wrong is remarkable, non-apologizing is unaceptable and makes them assholes in my book.

And unlike saying "I was wrong" after having been wrong; emphatically saying that you are an asshole after having been an asshole does not make it OK.

Apreche

Their biggest problem is that although they are atheist skeptic types, they are Libertarians first. And while they love science, they are not scientists. Thus, they will often get it wrong. Even actual scientists get it wrong occasionally, so they get it wrong even more than that. It's only harmful because they are celebrities who will make a TV or radio show broadcasting their wrongness before getting corrected.

That secondhand smoke episode of BS! was the first one that I noticed was huge BS, so it is good to see the doctor call them out on it. Love that sciencebasedmedicine blog, but don't read it too often.

Cremlian

Their biggest problem is that although they are atheist skeptic types, they are Libertarians first. And while they love science, they are not scientists. Thus, they will often get it wrong. Even actual scientists get it wrong occasionally, so they get it wrong even more than that. It's only harmful because they are celebrities who will make a TV or radio show broadcasting their wrongness before getting corrected.

That secondhand smoke episode of BS! was the first one that I noticed was huge BS, so it is good to see the doctor call them out on it. Love that sciencebasedmedicine blog, but don't read it too often.

Also I sorta remember them referring to the Second Hand smoke eps in a later eps about times they got things wrong.

Rym

Part of the problem was that, as the show went on, they went after increasingly nuanced issues with increasingly ham-shaped fists. The show was best when in focused on mocking patently ridiculous ideas that can be pretty objectively disproven (e.g., low power magnets as therapeutic devices, homeopathy, acupuncture, etc...).

They were great when they mocked obviously mockable things and pointed out glaring hypocrisy, but they quickly strayed far from that with the same mocking dismissal. Couple that with their Libertarian bias showing through, and it's a losing proposition.

A big reason why we don't talk about them anymore on the show is exactly what you described.

Anthony Heman

They are entertainers first, highly politically motivated, and a bit pretentious about things. I thought I would like their show, but I just never had the patience for it myself. I also find it quite amusing that there's a skepticism fan-culture that has the same pitfalls and mixed messages of every other cultural movement.

johndis