Or you can just get an electronic cigarette without the risk of either cancer or shitty smelling breath.
Most of them are kinda nasty, and they don't hold a candle to actual smokes. Not to say that one can't like them, and they're not enjoyable to some people, but they're not an adequate replacement for people who enjoy smoking.
If you are a cyborg, you don't even need drugs. You can just make yourself feel anything you want just by commanding your body to make you feel that way. I can even do things like storing flavors and experiences in memory, and then replaying them.
If you are a cyborg, you don't even need drugs. You can just make yourself feel anything you want just by commanding your body to make you feel that way. I can even do things like storing flavors and experiences in memory, and then replaying them.
The tactile ritual of smoking is about 50% of what I'm after when I light a cigarette.
I can't share a memory cigarette with a friend. I can't even smoke it in the same room as a friend, I have to go back to wherever I smoked it in the memory. Plus, who wants to spend that time in something that isn't actually happening? I do that enough with video games.
I can't share a memory cigarette with a friend. I can't even smoke it in the same room as a friend, I have to go back to wherever I smoked it in the memory. Plus, who wants to spend that time in something that isn't actually happening? I do that enough with video games.
It wouldn't be going back to a certain memory, it would be you just telling your robot brain to release the neurotransmitter for the good stuff I get when I smoke/hold a smoke. You get the chemical release and your brain is okay with it because it's in all reality the exact same thing.
Walker is saying there's more to an experience than the chemical release, which I agree with.
That said, it doesn't necessarily have to be a "memory cigarette". It could just as well be a virtual cigarette that is overlaid onto the real world. Moreover, you could in fact share it with a friend, because there's no reason you couldn't share that VR layer with a friend.
Also, I don't get his arbitrary distinction with respect to what is "actually happening".
Is it really arbitrary? I'm not so solipsistic that I don't make a distinction between what happens in my brain and what happens in the space around it.
With respect to individual experiences, it seems arbitrary enough to me. I really don't see why there's any significant reason to care about the difference between virtual smoking and real smoking.
The distinction that matters is between fake sentient beings and real sentient beings (and even then, a sufficiently advanced "fake sentient being" is essentially a real sentient being). If you're by yourself or interacting with real people, I don't see why it really matters whether those events take place in the "real world" or not.
Intellectually I know you're right, but there's still something about artificiality that disturbs me.
What is artificial and what is not? You, and most people, seem to have this irrational psychological hangup about "artificial" things. Everything in the universe is matter/energy and space/time. There is no such thing as natural or artificial. Everything is part of nature, even test tube baby cyborgs lubricated with synthetic oil.
Artificiality in the manufacturing sense doesn't bother me. What bothers me is the idea of cutting myself off from the outside world in favor of virtual experiences. Again, I realize that in the fantasy world we are imagining the two are identical, but my gut doesn't like it.
Here's a thought; would these virtual experiences be just as unpredictable as interacting with the outside world? Do they feature fully-simulated physics or is my cigarette program the same every time I run it?
Artificiality in the manufacturing sense doesn't bother me. What bothers me is the idea of cutting myself off from the outside world in favor of virtual experiences. Again, I realize that in the fantasy world we are imagining the two are identical, but my gut doesn't like it.
Here's a thought; would these virtual experiences be just as unpredictable as interacting with the outside world? Do they feature fully-simulated physics or is my cigarette program the same every time I run it?
Is the universe unpredictable, or is it just too complex for you to predict? The same can be said of software, and you would not be able to tell.
Artificiality in the manufacturing sense doesn't bother me. What bothers me is the idea of cutting myself off from the outside world in favor of virtual experiences. Again, I realize that in the fantasy world we are imagining the two are identical, but my gut doesn't like it.
Here's a thought; would these virtual experiences be just as unpredictable as interacting with the outside world? Do they feature fully-simulated physics or is my cigarette program the same every time I run it?
Is the universe unpredictable, or is it just too complex for you to predict?
Defined, naturally, as the hopeful wishing that every person anticipating far future developments has, that all the technological revelations and revolutions they're predicting and hoping for will come before they die, body breaking down and slowly becoming a poorer and poorer vessel for their mind, the embodiment of the spirit being willing but the flesh weak, the head-meat degrading till you're old, forgetful and confused, just like the people right now that you can't stand.
Defined, naturally, as the hopeful wishing that every person anticipating far future developments has, that all the technological revelations and revolutions they're predicting and hoping for will come before they die, body breaking down and slowly becoming a poorer and poorer vessel for their mind, the embodiment of the spirit being willing but the flesh weak, the head-meat degrading till you're old, forgetful and confused, just like the people right now that you can't stand.
I think the funniest thing about this whole discussion is that anything anyone sees as a problem - since we're talking about what is in the future, but at this point essentially fictional - they can just go "Of course, but (other fictional technology) means that you don't have to worry about that. Oh, you mean (fictional technology) has a problem? Well, (Fictional technology) solves that too!"
It's not a discussion of potential, it's a discussion of how inventive you can be making up nonexistent technology to solve problems. A high concept version of childeren in the playground going "I shot you!" "Nuh Uh, I have a shield" "Nuh Uh, I've got shield breaking bullets" "Nuh uh, I have a break-proof shield" "Nuh uh, I've got nuclear bullets that break any shield."
We have Pneumatic dicks. Well, not we personally, but we as a society. They replace one of your nuts with a little pump, you pump it up, and when you're done, you let it down. One can only hope it makes a little "fweeeeeee" noise like a deflating balloon when you do.
I once did a juggling gig at a urology conference. For two hours I performed in front of a huge projector screen showing a looping animated diagram exactly how an inflatable penile implant worked.
The next day I performed in front of a looping video of vaginal surgery.
Isn't the whole point of the example of the Ship of Theseus the fact that it is the concept/form of a thing, rather than the physical parts that make it up that expresses the nature of said thing? I mean, you shed cells at an alarming rate, and the you that is standing here now is made up of different molecules and bits than the you a decade ago. You change and grow, you add new experiences and pathways in the brain, you stop your thread of consciousness every night and then come back. It is only the fact that you continue to experience your life as an unbroken thread, the same individual progressing though time, that keeps you from realizing that the you right now is completely different than you at age 7.
Isn't the whole point of the example of the Ship of Theseus the fact that it is the concept/form of a thing, rather than the physical parts that make it up that expresses the nature of said thing? I mean, you shed cells at an alarming rate, and the you that is standing here now is made up of different molecules and bits than the you a decade ago. You change and grow, you add new experiences and pathways in the brain, you stop your thread of consciousness every night and then come back. It is only the fact that you continue to experience your life as an unbroken thread, the same individual progressing though time, that keeps you from realizing that the you right now is completely different than you at age 7.
I've always felt that when people are talking about shedding skin and hair they are missing the point, and a bit of a cop out. We aren't talking about skin we are talking about a big part of your body. Rym wants Batou eyes and gets rid of his crappy biological ones and gets these hella sweet peepers. But these are the eyes that you have seen every day since you met him, they are the eyes that have cried with you, laughed with you, the eyes that looked into yours when he said he loved you, and now they are gone. They will never come back, that part of someone that you had been around is gone. Well ok its eyes what the hell, we're all modern people. Wow those new super legs are looking a lot better than his crappy old ones, so he up grades. At what point in all that change and replacement would Rym stop being Rym. His mind is the same but when you roll over in the morning he is not the man you first met. Oh we can pull the whole, well your differnt now and all that crap but its just stupid.
Now moving onto the meat of the mind. Yes we can say that I am totally different to the person that I was at 7, and I'd agree for a start I can tie my laces and spell my last name. But with that growth that changed me from 7 to 22 I learnt a lot on the way and changed and adapeted. My body grew with my mind. But I did not stop being Dan, there are still parts of me that relate to 7 year old me. Still quirks things that identify me as Dan despitre the fact that Im taller and have a better beard than back then. I know for instance that from braking my back as a kid Im always going to have a sore back when its cold, its a good indecatior for when winter is coming. Sure it sucks but its something my body has. I have a scar on my knee from shower sex. I have all these memories attached to me from growing up. They make me me. Now say that I have to get rid of my body, due to butt vampriers or something, my mind is still the same. I still think the same, make the same jokes, have the same dreams and aspirations. Only now I have a better back, my shoulder is fixed, my knees are better, my lungs bigger, I don't have my scars, the lines on my eyes are gone. I no longer physically resemble myself, but I'm still the same guy right?
Trying to wrap up this rather only winded reply as I love this area so dam much and this is far better than the work I'm ment to be doing. Part of Theseus ship which i feel is over looked is how you and others regaurd it. In this instance Rym is still Rym even if he no longer looks the same. He still calls himself Rym and acts like him but is he the same man? What I'm trying to get at here is that we can be totally objective about it all and say well if my mind is me then thats me right? Which I think is kind of crap. Even the major has something that reminds her of who she is. We need these touch stones in our lives to keep us grounded to remind us who we are, to keep us as indeviduals. I don't think there is an answer to Theseus ship, not a universal one, as each person would see themselves in a differnt way. Im more comfortable with most of my insides being replaced but don't like the idea of losing an arm. It boils down to how you see yourself and how others see you.
Also sorry for any spelling mistakes Im at uni and they don't have a spell checker.
There is no such thing as Rym except as an immediate construction, collection of memory, and perception of agency.
The Ship of Theseus shows that the very concept of "self" you tried to describe above is largely irrelevant.
The eyes did nothing but perceive and express. They're IO: nothing more.
So beyond that they are nothing? Your view of the self is that we are nothing more than a passing fancy? Im just trying to get my head round what your saying.
So what then of how others view you and you view yourself if you changed. Say you replace your eyes are you still Rym or are you something new? Or are you saying that there never was a Rym but one that we constructed, that the Rym I talk to is not the same Rym Scott talks too?
So what then replaces the self? is there nothingness? What makes us us then?
Comments
What else have we got?
That said, it doesn't necessarily have to be a "memory cigarette". It could just as well be a virtual cigarette that is overlaid onto the real world. Moreover, you could in fact share it with a friend, because there's no reason you couldn't share that VR layer with a friend.
Also, I don't get his arbitrary distinction with respect to what is "actually happening".
The distinction that matters is between fake sentient beings and real sentient beings (and even then, a sufficiently advanced "fake sentient being" is essentially a real sentient being). If you're by yourself or interacting with real people, I don't see why it really matters whether those events take place in the "real world" or not.
Here's a thought; would these virtual experiences be just as unpredictable as interacting with the outside world? Do they feature fully-simulated physics or is my cigarette program the same every time I run it?
Defined, naturally, as the hopeful wishing that every person anticipating far future developments has, that all the technological revelations and revolutions they're predicting and hoping for will come before they die, body breaking down and slowly becoming a poorer and poorer vessel for their mind, the embodiment of the spirit being willing but the flesh weak, the head-meat degrading till you're old, forgetful and confused, just like the people right now that you can't stand.
It's not a discussion of potential, it's a discussion of how inventive you can be making up nonexistent technology to solve problems. A high concept version of childeren in the playground going "I shot you!" "Nuh Uh, I have a shield" "Nuh Uh, I've got shield breaking bullets" "Nuh uh, I have a break-proof shield" "Nuh uh, I've got nuclear bullets that break any shield."
The next day I performed in front of a looping video of vaginal surgery.
I've not fine a corporate gig since.
Now moving onto the meat of the mind. Yes we can say that I am totally different to the person that I was at 7, and I'd agree for a start I can tie my laces and spell my last name. But with that growth that changed me from 7 to 22 I learnt a lot on the way and changed and adapeted. My body grew with my mind. But I did not stop being Dan, there are still parts of me that relate to 7 year old me. Still quirks things that identify me as Dan despitre the fact that Im taller and have a better beard than back then. I know for instance that from braking my back as a kid Im always going to have a sore back when its cold, its a good indecatior for when winter is coming. Sure it sucks but its something my body has. I have a scar on my knee from shower sex. I have all these memories attached to me from growing up. They make me me. Now say that I have to get rid of my body, due to butt vampriers or something, my mind is still the same. I still think the same, make the same jokes, have the same dreams and aspirations. Only now I have a better back, my shoulder is fixed, my knees are better, my lungs bigger, I don't have my scars, the lines on my eyes are gone. I no longer physically resemble myself, but I'm still the same guy right?
Trying to wrap up this rather only winded reply as I love this area so dam much and this is far better than the work I'm ment to be doing. Part of Theseus ship which i feel is over looked is how you and others regaurd it. In this instance Rym is still Rym even if he no longer looks the same. He still calls himself Rym and acts like him but is he the same man? What I'm trying to get at here is that we can be totally objective about it all and say well if my mind is me then thats me right? Which I think is kind of crap. Even the major has something that reminds her of who she is. We need these touch stones in our lives to keep us grounded to remind us who we are, to keep us as indeviduals. I don't think there is an answer to Theseus ship, not a universal one, as each person would see themselves in a differnt way. Im more comfortable with most of my insides being replaced but don't like the idea of losing an arm. It boils down to how you see yourself and how others see you.
Also sorry for any spelling mistakes Im at uni and they don't have a spell checker.
The Ship of Theseus shows that the very concept of "self" you tried to describe above is largely irrelevant.
The eyes did nothing but perceive and express. They're IO: nothing more.
So what then of how others view you and you view yourself if you changed. Say you replace your eyes are you still Rym or are you something new? Or are you saying that there never was a Rym but one that we constructed, that the Rym I talk to is not the same Rym Scott talks too?
So what then replaces the self? is there nothingness? What makes us us then?