I wondered about this myself but I'm not sure of how she has dealt with the responses to her videos. She certainly seems to have received more media attention.
She doesn't, and that's the smartest course of action. Responding would just whip said responders, along with gamergate nowdays, into a frenzy that would result in a shitstorm of new videos, all hoping for a response, and with no response that would satisfy them. Better to just do her thing, and get it done.
I wondered about this myself but I'm not sure of how she has dealt with the responses to her videos content, emotionally and psychologically . She certainly seems to have received more media attention.
Regardless if FNPL can go fortnightly, anyone can.
FNPL, including recording, takes about an hour and a half to do. Videos take MUCH MUCH longer. I've been working on the same video for a week now.
He's lying, Nelson and I are actually complex melodic constructions played on a midi piano through vocaloid, fed with samples of us from casual conversation. Takes ages.
Regardless if FNPL can go fortnightly, anyone can.
FNPL, including recording, takes about an hour and a half to do. Videos take MUCH MUCH longer. I've been working on the same video for a week now.
I was saying it in jest I have done some video and audio work in the past and know that my amateur editing skills took me a long enough time to understand how even 5 minutes of well made video can take an incredibly long time.
I acknowledge that makes me cis white pig scum to which I ask that you look at all the fucks I give about that.
So, your second statement is coming off as pretty hostile. You're clearly trying to mock and draw out the crowd that you think will find that offensive, which is pointless.
No, it's a statement of how much I'm done being called that for daring to have an opinion about the quality of the videos which I find to be sorely lacking that doesn't by and large fellate Ms. Sarkesian's ego.
Response to hostile allegation is hostile. If you're getting so worked up over opinion videos, you're the one with the problem. You should work on that.
Regardless if FNPL can go fortnightly, anyone can.
FNPL, including recording, takes about an hour and a half to do. Videos take MUCH MUCH longer. I've been working on the same video for a week now.
He's lying, Nelson and I are actually complex melodic constructions played on a midi piano through vocaloid, fed with samples of us from casual conversation. Takes ages.
I acknowledge that makes me cis white pig scum to which I ask that you look at all the fucks I give about that.
So, your second statement is coming off as pretty hostile. You're clearly trying to mock and draw out the crowd that you think will find that offensive, which is pointless.
No, it's a statement of how much I'm done being called that for daring to have an opinion about the quality of the videos which I find to be sorely lacking that doesn't by and large fellate Ms. Sarkesian's ego.
or
Response to hostile allegation is hostile. If you're getting so worked up over opinion videos, you're the one with the problem. You should work on that.
I acknowledge that makes me cis white pig scum to which I ask that you look at all the fucks I give about that.
So, your second statement is coming off as pretty hostile. You're clearly trying to mock and draw out the crowd that you think will find that offensive, which is pointless.
No, it's a statement of how much I'm done being called that for daring to have an opinion about the quality of the videos which I find to be sorely lacking that doesn't by and large fellate Ms. Sarkesian's ego.
or
Response to hostile allegation is hostile. If you're getting so worked up over opinion videos, you're the one with the problem. You should work on that.
I acknowledge that makes me cis white pig scum to which I ask that you look at all the fucks I give about that.
So, your second statement is coming off as pretty hostile. You're clearly trying to mock and draw out the crowd that you think will find that offensive, which is pointless.
No, it's a statement of how much I'm done being called that for daring to have an opinion about the quality of the videos which I find to be sorely lacking that doesn't by and large fellate Ms. Sarkesian's ego.
Response to hostile allegation is hostile. If you're getting so worked up over opinion videos, you're the one with the problem. You should work on that.
So people shouldn't get upset about anything anyone says because getting upset means you have a problem. Right...
I acknowledge that makes me cis white pig scum to which I ask that you look at all the fucks I give about that.
So, your second statement is coming off as pretty hostile. You're clearly trying to mock and draw out the crowd that you think will find that offensive, which is pointless.
No, it's a statement of how much I'm done being called that for daring to have an opinion about the quality of the videos which I find to be sorely lacking that doesn't by and large fellate Ms. Sarkesian's ego.
Response to hostile allegation is hostile. If you're getting so worked up over opinion videos, you're the one with the problem. You should work on that.
So people shouldn't get upset about anything anyone says because getting upset means you have a problem. Right...
Something upsetting you is fine and normal. Responding with hostility because you're upset is not.
I acknowledge that makes me cis white pig scum to which I ask that you look at all the fucks I give about that.
So, your second statement is coming off as pretty hostile. You're clearly trying to mock and draw out the crowd that you think will find that offensive, which is pointless.
No, it's a statement of how much I'm done being called that for daring to have an opinion about the quality of the videos which I find to be sorely lacking that doesn't by and large fellate Ms. Sarkesian's ego.
Response to hostile allegation is hostile. If you're getting so worked up over opinion videos, you're the one with the problem. You should work on that.
So people shouldn't get upset about anything anyone says because getting upset means you have a problem. Right...
Something upsetting you is fine and normal. Responding with hostility because you're upset is not.
It's amazingly sad that 'that' has to be said to anyone.
Responding to hostility with hostility might not be productive, but neither is being non-hostile. Ignoring hostile people is also unproductive. If anything, mutual hostility is preferable to being shouted down or giving up in the face of adversity.
I've yet to see a way when it achieves anything more than two people shouting at one another, rather than having an actual discussion. This whole gamergate thing is fucking insane. You've got one lot of people arguing for more ethics in games journalism, which is what I thought started it all, one lot arguing that women need to keep out, which is fucking daft, one lot saying all gamers are misogamist, which is a bit of a sweeping statement, some ladies arguing that they don't need Saarkesian and Wu defending them, which I can see as one is an opinion peice and the other from what I have seen of interviews is as mad as a box of frogs, and on top of all of that both sides are being fucking terrible to each other in the worlds greatest game of he said she said.
Its most likely that there are some genuinely good things that need to be discussed. But nothing is achieved by screaming at each other, calling each other names and generally being ass hats. The children that I teach have better conversational skills. The last thing that is needed is for people to be responding in a violent fashion. People seem to have forgotten what the internet is about. If you don't want to hear what people are saying don't listen.
TLDR; Both sides have asshats and both sides (to a greater or lesser extent) have some valid arguments. Stupid people have taken over and its all gone wrong.
Addendum; The whole thing with both sides DDOsing one another, SWATing and death threats is insane, no logical person would do that regardless of reason or justification.
IThis whole gamergate thing is fucking insane. You've got one lot of people arguing for more ethics in games journalism, which is what I thought started it all, one lot arguing that women need to keep out...
The whole thing specifically started as what can only be described as reactionary anti-feminism. Ethics was literally not a part of the origin of this in any fashion, and all of the initial accusations were patently false.
Its most likely that there are some genuinely good things that need to be discussed.
Like what? I'm dead serious when I say that no point of value has at any point been discussed or raised in this entire movement. The only salient point is the clear anti-female sentiment among self-identified gamers.
Interesting. I was under the impression that the main shit storm came about due to a series of mail messages that showed people like Ben Kuchera (like fuck can I spell that name) and other had been deciding what games would get what reviews, and with a conflict of interest as people on judging panels happened to be either friend/partners/other. Basically the whole "gaming journalism" scene got totally muddied. I totally understand the shittyness that came after that, its fucking stupid don't get me wrong I don't agree with that aspect in the slights. So as a question is it worth talking about any of that stuff?
That is again a massive statement to make, I neither agree or disagree but you can not make statements about that based of a vocal minority. Its also pretty shitty to say to those that don't and most likely why half the people get pissed off. That is not to say that there is not a culture of that stuff, there are lots of examples that can be used, but its unfair and would need evidence to support it rather than personal anecdotes or opinion.
As I stated earlier does there need to be a discussion about games journalism or should we just accept that it is all opinion pieces that are tinged by personal relationships, ie friends and stuff. Also it would be interesting to have more discussions form ladies in different positions within the gaming industry. The reason I bring this up is that again I see a lot of women in the gaming industry saying that things aren't as bad. It would be cool to have an actual discussion without all the shit flinging.
Then again Rym you sort of proved my point about aggression within a statement. Regardless of my opinion you blanketed any further statement as wrong and holding no value. If I'd gone off half cock talking about mens rights then thats a reasonable expectation. But a hostile attitude doesn't really promote much discussion, unless you'd rather have an eco chamber which is ok if thats what you want .
Again so I don't get swamped with "oh your wrong your pro-gamergate" I'll state this now so that we can go back to it later. I think that misogynists stuff is fucking disgusting and that anyone can make those statements is an ass. Both sides have got their fair share of nobb heads.
Edit; Then again as I sat thinking about all of this I realised how fucking pointless this whole thing is. Don't get me wrong equality for everyone is still am important issue. But we have much bigger issues then video games. Its kind of sad when you think about it. I mean even in our own garden we have Transpeople getting stuck in shitty situations till to them the only option it to kill themselves, all those girls that Boko Haram took are still missing, female genital mutilation is still a thing and the people of Syria have got the short end of a very shitty stick. It rather puts things in perspective when people are so worked up what some twats on the internet you your never going to see are being bellends.
Basically the whole "gaming journalism" scene got totally muddied. I totally understand the shittyness that came after that, its fucking stupid don't get me wrong I don't agree with that aspect in the slights. So as a question is it worth talking about any of that stuff?
It was never about that for most of the people involved. Ever.
There isn't anything worth discussing. Unless you have a specific example of specific ethical problems in game journalism, there's no debate to even be had. Even then, nothing in this movement was ever about that in the first place, so it's kind of moot.
The fact that you even bring it up in a thread about Anita Saarkesian is interesting. How in any conceivable way is game journalism ethics relevant to her?
As I stated earlier does there need to be a discussion about games journalism or should we just accept that it is all opinion pieces that are tinged by personal relationships, ie friends and stuff.
Yes, we should just accept it. That's how humans work. That's how all opinions work. That's how EVERYTHING works.
Then again Rym you sort of proved my point about aggression within a statement. Regardless of my opinion you blanketed any further statement as wrong and holding no value
I am a professional in the game industry, both from a review/commentary/journalism/opinion perspective, and from an actually-make-games-with-a-game-company perspective. In my professional opinion, there is literally nothing - no point of any kind - raised by this movement that is worthy of discussion on its own merits. You keep acting like there are "two sides" to this. There is one side: the gamergaters. There isn't another diametrically opposed side. There's one aggressive shitful movement, and a wide array of smarter people ignoring or refuting it. It's disingenuous in the extreme to frame this as two opposing "sides."
Yes, we should just accept it. That's how humans work. That's how all opinions work. That's how EVERYTHING works.
The inescapable subjectivity of "journalism" and the ramifications it has for reporting the "truth" is literally the genesis of Gonzo journalism.
Hunter Thompson realized that objectivity in journalism is a lie, and so he stopped pretending and started reporting from a subjective standpoint.
There is a saying we have among us storytellers: "Never let the facts get in the way of the truth."
Journalism, at its core, is inherently subject to influence from outside factors. This is literally inescapable. The problem of "ethics" in game journalism is literally the same problem that exists in all attempts at objectivity ever.
Well I did sort of mention it Rym. All that stuff about people from different gaming websites having a massive email group where they decided what games got what score. If you want I can go and dig some of them out, the validity of them is suspect with some I'll give you that. Yet there is an awful lot of stuff coming out that paints people in a less than shinning light.
I brought it up in the thread as I explained where I thought the conflict stemmed from. The whole fucking thing is stupid. From what I saw the release of these emails was the start of it all. If you want we could have the conversation else where so not to derail the tread.
So your saying that people can not have objectivity? That is something we should accept. Would you agree then that they should at least disclose a relationship before commenting. For instance Giant Bomb have said a couple of times that they won't talk about something due to them knowing the devs.
Rym there are always two sides too any argument, its a given with any discussion/argument. One side believes one thing the other does not. You might not believe in the validity of there opinion but they can still have one. For a start you have the Anit-gamergaters movement. From an outside perspective you have two pretty fucking big sides drawn up.
I totally accept there is a lot of shitty people on the internet, interesting though how you seem to think it is one sided, and the gamergate movement thing does seem to be made out of shitty people. But people keep on harpping on about ethics and stuff like that. Now you might not think its part of it but people keep on going on about it so it bears discussion. Even if its a yes or no thing, it would at least put an end to that and take away any excuse shitty people have to be shitty.
Well I did sort of mention it Rym. All that stuff about people from different gaming websites having a massive email group where they decided what games got what score. I
Ok give me a sec Ill try and find the crap my brother sent me.
Edit; So here is the big email dump of what came out. Im still reading though, but it seems all mixed up. With some people saying they should get involved on a professional level and others saying on a personal level. There is also a coupe of articles from Milo Yiannopoulops and a wiki for it all. The reliability of sources in this whole thing is a cluster fuck but what can you do.
Also an interesting video from Christian Hoff Sommers;
In spending a good chunk of time going through this stuff its quiet apparent that A) there are some fucking stupid shitty people on the internet who's views an opinions, I hope, are in the extreme, that like as not there seems at least a level of cross over an collusion between several members of the gaming media.
Another question that I'd love to know the answer too, what is this "Not your shield" side then? They seem to be another side.
Comments
Not sure what to think of this other than Deflategate has received more attention.
Gamergate, meanwhile, is an awful shitful movement of shitful people doing shitful things.
Its most likely that there are some genuinely good things that need to be discussed. But nothing is achieved by screaming at each other, calling each other names and generally being ass hats. The children that I teach have better conversational skills. The last thing that is needed is for people to be responding in a violent fashion. People seem to have forgotten what the internet is about. If you don't want to hear what people are saying don't listen.
TLDR; Both sides have asshats and both sides (to a greater or lesser extent) have some valid arguments. Stupid people have taken over and its all gone wrong.
Addendum; The whole thing with both sides DDOsing one another, SWATing and death threats is insane, no logical person would do that regardless of reason or justification.
That is again a massive statement to make, I neither agree or disagree but you can not make statements about that based of a vocal minority. Its also pretty shitty to say to those that don't and most likely why half the people get pissed off. That is not to say that there is not a culture of that stuff, there are lots of examples that can be used, but its unfair and would need evidence to support it rather than personal anecdotes or opinion.
As I stated earlier does there need to be a discussion about games journalism or should we just accept that it is all opinion pieces that are tinged by personal relationships, ie friends and stuff. Also it would be interesting to have more discussions form ladies in different positions within the gaming industry. The reason I bring this up is that again I see a lot of women in the gaming industry saying that things aren't as bad. It would be cool to have an actual discussion without all the shit flinging.
Then again Rym you sort of proved my point about aggression within a statement. Regardless of my opinion you blanketed any further statement as wrong and holding no value. If I'd gone off half cock talking about mens rights then thats a reasonable expectation. But a hostile attitude doesn't really promote much discussion, unless you'd rather have an eco chamber which is ok if thats what you want .
Again so I don't get swamped with "oh your wrong your pro-gamergate" I'll state this now so that we can go back to it later. I think that misogynists stuff is fucking disgusting and that anyone can make those statements is an ass. Both sides have got their fair share of nobb heads.
Edit; Then again as I sat thinking about all of this I realised how fucking pointless this whole thing is. Don't get me wrong equality for everyone is still am important issue. But we have much bigger issues then video games. Its kind of sad when you think about it. I mean even in our own garden we have Transpeople getting stuck in shitty situations till to them the only option it to kill themselves, all those girls that Boko Haram took are still missing, female genital mutilation is still a thing and the people of Syria have got the short end of a very shitty stick. It rather puts things in perspective when people are so worked up what some twats on the internet you your never going to see are being bellends.
There isn't anything worth discussing. Unless you have a specific example of specific ethical problems in game journalism, there's no debate to even be had. Even then, nothing in this movement was ever about that in the first place, so it's kind of moot.
The fact that you even bring it up in a thread about Anita Saarkesian is interesting. How in any conceivable way is game journalism ethics relevant to her? Yes, we should just accept it. That's how humans work. That's how all opinions work. That's how EVERYTHING works.
I am a professional in the game industry, both from a review/commentary/journalism/opinion perspective, and from an actually-make-games-with-a-game-company perspective. In my professional opinion, there is literally nothing - no point of any kind - raised by this movement that is worthy of discussion on its own merits. You keep acting like there are "two sides" to this. There is one side: the gamergaters. There isn't another diametrically opposed side. There's one aggressive shitful movement, and a wide array of smarter people ignoring or refuting it. It's disingenuous in the extreme to frame this as two opposing "sides."
Hunter Thompson realized that objectivity in journalism is a lie, and so he stopped pretending and started reporting from a subjective standpoint.
There is a saying we have among us storytellers: "Never let the facts get in the way of the truth."
Journalism, at its core, is inherently subject to influence from outside factors. This is literally inescapable. The problem of "ethics" in game journalism is literally the same problem that exists in all attempts at objectivity ever.
I brought it up in the thread as I explained where I thought the conflict stemmed from. The whole fucking thing is stupid. From what I saw the release of these emails was the start of it all. If you want we could have the conversation else where so not to derail the tread.
So your saying that people can not have objectivity? That is something we should accept. Would you agree then that they should at least disclose a relationship before commenting. For instance Giant Bomb have said a couple of times that they won't talk about something due to them knowing the devs.
Rym there are always two sides too any argument, its a given with any discussion/argument. One side believes one thing the other does not. You might not believe in the validity of there opinion but they can still have one. For a start you have the Anit-gamergaters movement. From an outside perspective you have two pretty fucking big sides drawn up.
I totally accept there is a lot of shitty people on the internet, interesting though how you seem to think it is one sided, and the gamergate movement thing does seem to be made out of shitty people. But people keep on harpping on about ethics and stuff like that. Now you might not think its part of it but people keep on going on about it so it bears discussion. Even if its a yes or no thing, it would at least put an end to that and take away any excuse shitty people have to be shitty.
Edit; So here is the big email dump of what came out. Im still reading though, but it seems all mixed up. With some people saying they should get involved on a professional level and others saying on a personal level. There is also a coupe of articles from Milo Yiannopoulops and a wiki for it all. The reliability of sources in this whole thing is a cluster fuck but what can you do.
Email dump; http://yiannopoulos.net/2014/09/19/gamejournopros-zoe-quinn-email-dump/
Wiki; http://gamergate.wikia.com/wiki/Proposed_Wikipedia_Entry
And an article on PR; http://www.breitbart.com/london/2014/09/18/the-emails-that-prove-video-games-journalism-must-be-reformed/
Also an interesting video from Christian Hoff Sommers;
In spending a good chunk of time going through this stuff its quiet apparent that A) there are some fucking stupid shitty people on the internet who's views an opinions, I hope, are in the extreme,
Another question that I'd love to know the answer too, what is this "Not your shield" side then? They seem to be another side.