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Scrolls

AprecheApreche
edited June 2013 in Video Games
So it's out now. I got it and played the tutorial. It's actually not a bad game. No microtransaction nonsense either. The problem is that you have to customize your deck of scrolls. The way to earn more scrolls is to play a lot, which results in earning digital currency. So you basically have to level up your deck by playing. If they would simply let everyone have all the scrolls, this could be great.

I think I'm going to play this, though, because it is a game I can play at work in a window.
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Comments

  • HMTKSteveHMTKSteve
    edited June 2013
    Let us know how quickly you earn new scrolls and rarity levels if such exists.
    Post edited by HMTKSteve on
  • AndrewAndrew
    Meh.
  • AprecheApreche
    edited June 2013
    Oh, wait. There IS pay to win nonsense.

    To buy new stuff you can use gold you earn by playing. But some of the things you want to buy also require shards. For example, I can buy a random card for like 100 gold. I just played one multiplayer game and got 300+ gold.

    When you join you get to pick one of three preconstructed decks. You can buy one of the other decks for 6500 gold and 300 shards. Shards cost real US dollars. Fuck it. I bought the game so you don't have to. Sad. It would be pretty good if they would just let everyone have every scroll. It's not free to play! I paid $20! I guess that first deck is what I got for my moneys.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • CremlianCremlian
    So there is no way to get shards through play?
  • ChurbaChurba
    Eh, I'm still interested to see how it develops.

    Can you buy specific cards with gold and/or shards, or is it some form of random only?
  • AprecheApreche
    So there is no way to get shards through play?
    As far as I can tell, no.

    It does seem that I was wrong about one thing. The price isn't gold AND shards, it's gold OR shards. Still it's very annoying. You will have to play this game a crapton to be able to have enough scrolls to build every possible legal deck.
  • HMTKSteveHMTKSteve
    Is there a scroll limit per deck? Can you trade scrolls?
  • ApsupApsup
    Sounds like it works like pretty much every other F2P game. You can earn things by playing the game non stop for ten years or you can open your wallet.
  • ColdguyColdguy
    Nice to know that Notch is going to prove to all the naysayers that F2P is NOT a good business model as soon as this game tanks.
  • AprecheApreche
    The purchasing options are as follows. Remember you earn gold by playing, shards by paying. Order growth and energy are the three races/factions/classes. Like colors in M:TG.

    one random scroll - 100 gold
    scroll pack - 1000 gold
    1 order scroll - 175
    1 growth scroll - 175
    1 energy scroll - 175

    Then there are six cards that are labeled in a section "Just for you" I'm not sure exactly what that means. Here are the six I got.

    Proximity Charge - 100 gold or 25 shards
    Gravelock Raider - 100/25
    Blind Rage - 500/60
    Redesign - 500/60
    Thunder Surge - 1000/120
    Faith Chains - 1000/120

    I bought the Gravelock Raider. If it's just for me, does that mean nobody has that scroll but me? Do other people have scrolls I can never get? Are these simply six scrolls selected at random that I may buy at non-random?

    To make it worse, I only have one copy of the gravelock raider. I'm not sure what is the maximum legal number per deck, but I've got just one, and can't buy another. Is it possible to get one at random? Seriously, bullshit.

    Next there are three preconstructed decks for sale. They all cost 6500/500. I already have the order one, since I picked the knights to start with, so that one is sold out. I can't buy another. It's like I picked Squirtle, but I gotta pay for Charmander and Bulbasaur.

    To make it worse, the starter deck does not include multiple copies of all scrolls. I count 9 scrolls in the starter that I have only one copy of. 15 that I only have two copies of and 3 that I have 3 copies of. I have no more than 3 copies of any one scroll. I'm not sure if I am legally allowed to have more than 3 of one scroll in a deck. Either way, it's bullshit.

    It's rather upsetting because the game is a nice combination of Battle Line, Netrunner, and the Ironclad Tactics that the Spacechem guy made. You summon dudes on a hex map. They have a number that is their countdown. When it reaches zero, they go forward and attack. But they also can move around your own board!

    I won the last game because I cast a spell that gave my guys +1 movement for the turn and reduced the opponent's movement by 1. Then I moved my guys who were at countdown 0 into an undefended lane. The opponent couldn't move to defend, and I took it. That was the third one, out of 5, so I won the match. It was fun. If only it was fair.
  • ChurbaChurba
    edited June 2013
    Wasn't Notch mostly uninvolved with the project? I know he helped come up with it initially, but hasn't he been something like 95% hands-off for Scrolls?

    I assume Order, Growth and Energy purchases are random cards from within those...categories, I guess?

    As for the "J
    Post edited by Churba on
  • AprecheApreche
    Yes, you can trade scrolls. In the game lobby you can challenge people to battles, or invite them to trade.
  • AprecheApreche
    Wasn't Notch mostly uninvolved with the project? I know he helped come up with it initially, but hasn't he been something like 95% hands-off for Scrolls?

    Also, I only just found out that Jerry Holkins is the writer for the game. That's pretty cool.
    The art in the game is pretty great. I'm not sure what Jerry wrote, because there doesn't seem to be much story, just theme.

  • AprecheApreche
    I think the real problem here is what I've seen first with Leviathan Warships and now Scrolls, is that these are not free to play. Usually the pay to win games are free to play. They get you in the door, then hit you with the microtransactions. At least in that case, it is free to find out of the game is bullshit or not. Both with Scrolls and Warships it is not free to find out. Someone has to bite the bullet and pay to get the game to see if it's bullshit.

    I paid $20 for Scrolls, and played it for maybe 15 minutes. I'll never play it again. Huge waste of money. I could have had a really fancy lunch that would have been much more enjoyable.

    At least there is a tiny chance the game will fix itself. One of the Mojang people actually engaged me on Twitter. Props to them for that.

  • MATATATMATATAT
    Lol how did you not know it was going to be microtransactions? It's an online card game. It's just begging for that shit. Also a little research might have helped.
  • XefasXefas
    Clearly, Scott's just a hopeless romantic. He wants to think that, given the resources and opportunity to make something amazing, someone will choose to make something amazing, instead of intentionally making something dumb. It's a beautiful sentiment. I shed a manly tear for that.

    Also, from looking at the Scrolls website, I believe the "Just For You" pile is a selection that you get every week of random single cards that you can look at before buying (unlike whatever passes for booster packs for the game), but everyone playing the game gets a different random selection every week.
  • MrRobotoMrRoboto
    edited June 2013
    I don't get it Scott, it's a trading card game, if you give everyone every single card, then it becomes a card game, and if every one gets all of the same cards, then it even stops being a game, since a optimal strategy can be devised trivially. You are just pissed off because you can't game the game.

    You complaining about having to spend either time or money (same thing) for extra cards, is like complaining about how racist your local KKK meeting was.
    Post edited by MrRoboto on
  • RymRym
    No, fuck any game where spending more money gives you an advantage. You can have trading without that aspect if you're clever, but they're using money (over time spent) as the monetization model. More money will make you win more often.
  • MrRobotoMrRoboto
    How can you have trade if there is no inherent value to the card you are trading? If everyone has all the same cards and a solution to the problem has been found, why would I trade? everyone would be looking for the same combination to gain a higher win ratio.
  • MATATATMATATAT
    edited June 2013
    If everyone spends time as their currency then you can still have meaningful trading. You'll still get p2w it'll just be on ebay instead of in the game a la WoW. Scott's subscription model is a better of a solution. If the cards are designed correctly then there should be no optimal solution.
    Post edited by MATATAT on
  • AprecheApreche
    Netrunner. Everyone has every card. Competition is fierce. There is no "answer".
  • RymRym
    Trading only exists in an interesting way in drafts. An overall draft, a draft within a game, an initial seed draft: there has to be a draft or a trading card game inevitably is awful from a competitive perspective.
  • AprecheApreche
    Trading only exists in an interesting way in drafts. An overall draft, a draft within a game, an initial seed draft: there has to be a draft or a trading card game inevitably is awful from a competitive perspective.
    That would be incredibly fucking interesting. An online customizable card game where every time you start a new match, you draft. Then you play.
  • johndisjohndis
    I still think the microtransaction OR time spent model is better than just the time spent model a lot of full price games have... but uhh, both suck either way.
  • AprecheApreche
    I still think the microtransaction OR time spent model is better than just the time spent model a lot of full price games have... but uhh, both suck either way.
    Yes. I wouldn't mind if they offered a competitive option. Tribes: Ascend almost has it right. They let you buy everything for a fixed price. But the other key thing is that people with everything should only play against other people with everything. It's just as unfair to be missing something as to have opponents that are missing something.

    I'm really excited by the idea of an online game where you draft every time. I don't think such a thing exists yet.
  • XefasXefas
    Magic the Gathering Online has a drafting mode, where everyone in the tournament drafts from a shared pool of booster packs before assembling their decks/sideboards, and playing with them.

    It looks like a lot of fun. Its just, as far as I know, you have to pay real money every time you do it (possibly in the form of tickets or booster packs that you had to buy with real money). So, not for me.
  • AprecheApreche
    Magic the Gathering Online has a drafting mode, where everyone in the tournament drafts from a shared pool of booster packs before assembling their decks/sideboards, and playing with them.

    It looks like a lot of fun. Its just, as far as I know, you have to pay real money every time you do it (possibly in the form of tickets or booster packs that you had to buy with real money). So, not for me.
    Yeah. I want to see a game where drafting is just part one of the game every time.
  • RymRym
    Let's play Agricola with a card draft.
  • NeitoNeito
    Trading only exists in an interesting way in drafts. An overall draft, a draft within a game, an initial seed draft: there has to be a draft or a trading card game inevitably is awful from a competitive perspective.
    That would be incredibly fucking interesting. An online customizable card game where every time you start a new match, you draft. Then you play.
    It's called "Playing Booster Draft Magic in OCTGN".
  • AprecheApreche
    Trading only exists in an interesting way in drafts. An overall draft, a draft within a game, an initial seed draft: there has to be a draft or a trading card game inevitably is awful from a competitive perspective.
    That would be incredibly fucking interesting. An online customizable card game where every time you start a new match, you draft. Then you play.
    It's called "Playing Booster Draft Magic in OCTGN".
    If OCTGN wasn't unusable.
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