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Wendy Davis

edited June 2013 in Politics
What are your thoughts on her filibuster? What are your thoughts on SB 5?
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  • SB5 is a terrible bill and I'm glad it's been killed (for now).

    The filibuster is a stupid legislative tool that should be removed from all levels of governance.
  • edited June 2013
    What do you dislike about it (Applying to both statements)?
    Post edited by zeo1fan on
  • Wendy Davis has metaphorical balls the size of watermelons.
  • SB 5 would have made abortions past 20 weeks of pregnancy illegal, and placed restrictions on abortion that would have forced the vast majority of clinics equipped to provide abortions to close. It would have made getting an abortion infeasible for most of the people living in Texas.
  • edited June 2013
    My understanding is that it would've limited Texas to about, 5 abortion clinics. For the whole state.
    Note that Texas is larger than several European countries.

    But I agree, the filibuster needs to be removed. It's a stupid idea and it can be too easily abused, especially in this information age.
    Post edited by Axel on
  • Davis used an old fashioned "stand and keep blabbing" filibuster. That sort of filibuster is probably okay as it is a useful weapon against tyranny of the majority, like what we saw in Texas in her case.

    However, the Congressional-style "just threatening to filibuster is just as legitimate as a real talking filibuster" filibuster needs to be abolished.
  • Can't we just give Texas to Mexico?
  • The filibuster needs to go back to its original incarnation, ie, if you want to do it you gotta get up and talk your ass off.
  • It troubles me that the filibuster rules included things that clearly advantage those with higher physical stamina (no sitting, no leaning, no eating, no drinking, no toilet break, no back brace adjustment??).
  • Note that Texas is larger than several European countries.
    Yes, but so is Rhode Island.
  • It troubles me that the filibuster rules included things that clearly advantage those with higher physical stamina (no sitting, no leaning, no eating, no drinking, no toilet break, no back brace adjustment??).
    Well clearly they're trying to limit it, like everyone else here is saying they should just outright ban it.
  • edited June 2013
    Isn't Texas actually larger than MOST European countries?

    [Edit] Google-fu tells me that Texas is actually larger than EVERY country in Europe.
    Post edited by Sail on
  • Note that Texas is larger than several European countries.
    Yes, but so is Rhode Island.
    Texas is roughly the size of France, for a better comparison.
  • SB 5 would have made abortions past 20 weeks of pregnancy illegal, and placed restrictions on abortion that would have forced the vast majority of clinics equipped to provide abortions to close. It would have made getting an abortion infeasible for most of the people living in Texas.
    There's all that, and also this little gem:

    "(b) Except as otherwise provided by Section 171.046(a)(3),
    a physician performing an abortion under Subsection (a) shall
    terminate the pregnancy in the manner that, in the physician's
    reasonable medical judgment, provides the best opportunity for the
    unborn child to survive."

    This is from 171.045.

    Subsection (a) refers us to 171.046(a)(1) and (2), which gives an exception to the 20-week rule if the mother's life is in danger.

    Taking those two in concert: you can abort a child that is 20+ weeks old if your life is in danger or it poses a threat of grave bodily harm, but the physician must choose the method that best guarantees the survival of the child.

    There are other things, but this bill is awful.

    As for the filibuster: we already have protections against "tyranny of the majority" - that's why the branches of government and the constitution were set up the way they were. The filibuster is used to kill a bill based on procedural requirements, not based on the merits of the bill itself. It serves only as a roadblock in a system where numerous other roadblocks already exist.
  • Fillbuster like she did it is perfectly fine.
  • As for the filibuster: we already have protections against "tyranny of the majority" - that's why the branches of government and the constitution were set up the way they were. The filibuster is used to kill a bill based on procedural requirements, not based on the merits of the bill itself. It serves only as a roadblock in a system where numerous other roadblocks already exist.
    Unfortunately, the Constitution and the branches of government were set up in a more enlightened era when partisanship wasn't an issue (or at least that was the theory -- in practice partisanship starting cropping right from the get-go, against Washington's warnings).

    The three branches of government we have are not as independent from each other as we think because everyone in government is loyal to their party first and everything else second.
  • Partisanship was a problem from the get go. At least people are not dueling each other.

    The filibusterer is probably not necessary when there are three levels of government. It is more useful in a parliamentary system where one can have absolute executive and legislative control with 35% of the vote.
  • edited June 2013
    I'm not saying the concept of filibuster itself is not problematic. But even if you see filibuster as a patch against majority overpowerment, those requirements afford a greater advantage to more able-bodied people.
    Post edited by no fun girl on
  • Fillbuster like she did it is perfectly fine.
    I disagree. She blocked a bill by pure obstructionism. I like the outcome, but I dislike the method. The filibuster by its very nature only slows down the legislative process - it does not actually resolve any issues. Nothing stops a person from re-introducing the same legislation later on.

    In fact, the filibuster often subjects people to "tyranny of the vocal minority." When an ideologue has no other recourse, they can try to filibuster something out of existence. It cuts both ways.

    It's also probably a useless move, because IIRC the Governor can just call a special session of the legislature to vote on the issue anyway. She has perhaps slightly stalled the issue.

    The greater concern is that the bill was killed because the vote happened after midnight - but the legislators changed the timestamps on the voting record to make it appear as though it happened before midnight.

    No amount of filibustering matters in that level of corruption.

  • The greater concern is that the bill was killed because the vote happened after midnight - but the legislators changed the timestamps on the voting record to make it appear as though it happened before midnight.

    No amount of filibustering matters in that level of corruption.
    Seriously? Wow. Go America!
  • 'Murica
  • The Governor refused to recognize it, but the fact that stupid old men tried to do that is frustrating as hell.
  • Favorite tweet: WENDY DAVIS, FIRST OF HER NAME, KHALEESI OF THE TEXAS PRAIRIE, BORN IN A STORM OF REPUBLICAN TEARS, BREAKER OF PATRIARCHY, MOTHER OF FREEDOM

    Also Leticia Va de Putte is the bomb. "Parliamentary inquiry: at what point must a female Senator raise her hand to be recognized over her male colleagues in the room?"

    The fact that it has to be asked, saddens me. However, when she said that I was like "OH SNAP, YOU JUST GOT TOLD, WHITEY!"
  • Wendy Davis is a true American hero.
  • Partisanship was a problem from the get go. At least people are not dueling each other.

    The filibusterer is probably not necessary when there are three levels of government. It is more useful in a parliamentary system where one can have absolute executive and legislative control with 35% of the vote.
    I argue that even though we have three levels of government on paper, we don't have it in practice. Generally, when we have one branch of government that is aligned along party lines with any other branches, those branches tend to just rubber stamp each other and subvert the separation of powers intended for the tri-branch system.
    In fact, the filibuster often subjects people to "tyranny of the vocal minority." When an ideologue has no other recourse, they can try to filibuster something out of existence. It cuts both ways.
    Which is why using this parliamentary weapon should be made relatively difficult -- so that it's only used in extreme circumstances.
    The greater concern is that the bill was killed because the vote happened after midnight - but the legislators changed the timestamps on the voting record to make it appear as though it happened before midnight.

    No amount of filibustering matters in that level of corruption.
    Very true. Sadly, not a damned thing is going to be done to deal with those people mucking with the timestamps, despite it being an impeachable offense in my opinion.
  • Fillbuster like she did it is perfectly fine.
    I disagree. She blocked a bill by pure obstructionism. I like the outcome, but I dislike the method. The filibuster by its very nature only slows down the legislative process - it does not actually resolve any issues. Nothing stops a person from re-introducing the same legislation later on.

    In fact, the filibuster often subjects people to "tyranny of the vocal minority." When an ideologue has no other recourse, they can try to filibuster something out of existence. It cuts both ways.

    It's also probably a useless move, because IIRC the Governor can just call a special session of the legislature to vote on the issue anyway. She has perhaps slightly stalled the issue.

    The greater concern is that the bill was killed because the vote happened after midnight - but the legislators changed the timestamps on the voting record to make it appear as though it happened before midnight.

    No amount of filibustering matters in that level of corruption.
    Pete, you're exactly right. The purpose of the filibuster, at least the old fashioned kind that Wendy Davis did, is to slow down the legislative process. It's not supposed to resolve an issue. It's like a temporary emergency break you pull when you think something needs to be slowed down and reexamined.

    The purpose of the filibuster isn't to permanently stop legislation, it's supposed to slow down the process enough, and hopefully garner enough attention, that the issue is reexamined. That's exactly what happened here. This is almost a textbook application of the proper way the filibuster is used.

    By filibustering, Wendy Davis, even if only temporarily, stopped the process. The Texas Legislature can still pass the bill, so it's not really the "tyranny of the vocal minority." At the same time though, she's now a national hero in the pro-choice movement and the bill, and the whole process, has garnered national attention. Since this is still Texas, probably nothing will change, but at least now, people everywhere are paying attention. The Texas Legislature can't pass this bill in relative anonymity anymore. If this bill still passes, maybe voters who weren't paying attention before, will see that their representatives voted for this bill, and will change their minds in the next election.

    That's the way a filibuster is supposed to work.

  • This was entirely expected, unfortunately.
    I don't think we've seen the end of this bill, not even a little. Just the end of it moving through quietly. They can't escape our gaze, and we will now watch and criticize every bad thing they do, even moreso than before.
  • edited June 2013
    My opinion of the filibuster is the same as my opinion of trial by combat: It's an archaic mechanic that doesn't fit with the core mechanics of the situation (namely voting on bills and making arguments before a judge/jury in the latter case), and I think it should be done away with. However, when it does happen it's a spectacle that I enjoy watching.

    EDIT: Also, both are ableist. ^_~
    Post edited by YoshoKatana on
  • And good ol' Rick Perry is calling a second special session to vote on SB 5.
    This guy is a dick, and I hate that I share a city with him!
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