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Cerberus, N7, Paranoia, Plagiarism
These are links to embarrassing old images I made between 2006 and 2007 and their upload descriptions. I was young, very into anime, and learning to write. I still have some of these characters and the ones I still use look better and have exceedingly better stories. The reason I'm making this thread is to tell a story about some experiences I had since making these characters.
http://viethra-schepherd.deviantart.com/art/Ship-WIP-53178547
http://viethra-schepherd.deviantart.com/art/Yay-1000-pageviews-39709390#comments
The two main factors I want to highlight, are a series of robots, in particular the 7th, and a fictional organization, Cerberus.
The Symphonies, numbered sentient robots corresponding with Beethoven's works, are an integral plot point in my long time project Seraphim. The most prominent one is Nr.5 then N5. The one with the most sway in the world of the story is Nr.7, then known as N7. He runs an operation similar to Lockheed Martin, dubbed appropriately enough, N7. Between 2004 and 2005, N7 was just a name I used for random stuff. Xeth, a forgettable character, was associated strongly with the term long after I'd Made N5 and N7's company.
Cerberus is an UNA (Think NATO) initiative tasked with removing supernatural entities from a UN research base that started as an abandoned Nazi research base. N7 supplies them with equipment and their logo is on many items used by the protagonists, members of Cerberus.
http://viethra-schepherd.deviantart.com/art/Ship-WIP-53178547
http://viethra-schepherd.deviantart.com/art/Yay-1000-pageviews-39709390#comments
Anyway, when Mass Effect came out, it sounded cool, but I didn't play it for a while. A few years later I heard there was something called N7 in it. Since it turned out to be important to their story, I changed N7 to Nr. 7 and so on. I thought nothing of it. Just a coincidence.
Then I learned more about the games, and heard about the Illusive Man's Cerberus. That got me thinking, was it a coincidence? Why would professionals making a science fiction rpg in 2006 use ideas they found on my online galleries and stuff. I was just some kid. They certainly weren't garnering the kind of attention that lends itself to plagiarism. Anyway, I had mailed myself an early show bible with postdates and everything already by 06. I had physical proof that I'd come up with that N7 name before I saw it in Mass Effect. I could totally publish material using the name, and defend it with those documents. To this day I wonder, should I really back down? Was it really a coincidence. My strongest instinct is to say it was a total fluke. It just kinda happened. Nobody stole anything.
The point of this is to ask a question. Have any of you out there ever felt like some big wig took your idea, even though you're certain they couldn't have known? People imagine similar ideas all the time. The bow and arrow were invented simultaneously. Still, small time writers and artists have their materials appropriated by corporations and other creators all the time. If you have any anecdotes, please, share your experiences.
http://viethra-schepherd.deviantart.com/art/Ship-WIP-53178547
http://viethra-schepherd.deviantart.com/art/Yay-1000-pageviews-39709390#comments
The two main factors I want to highlight, are a series of robots, in particular the 7th, and a fictional organization, Cerberus.
The Symphonies, numbered sentient robots corresponding with Beethoven's works, are an integral plot point in my long time project Seraphim. The most prominent one is Nr.5 then N5. The one with the most sway in the world of the story is Nr.7, then known as N7. He runs an operation similar to Lockheed Martin, dubbed appropriately enough, N7. Between 2004 and 2005, N7 was just a name I used for random stuff. Xeth, a forgettable character, was associated strongly with the term long after I'd Made N5 and N7's company.
Cerberus is an UNA (Think NATO) initiative tasked with removing supernatural entities from a UN research base that started as an abandoned Nazi research base. N7 supplies them with equipment and their logo is on many items used by the protagonists, members of Cerberus.
http://viethra-schepherd.deviantart.com/art/Ship-WIP-53178547
http://viethra-schepherd.deviantart.com/art/Yay-1000-pageviews-39709390#comments
Anyway, when Mass Effect came out, it sounded cool, but I didn't play it for a while. A few years later I heard there was something called N7 in it. Since it turned out to be important to their story, I changed N7 to Nr. 7 and so on. I thought nothing of it. Just a coincidence.
Then I learned more about the games, and heard about the Illusive Man's Cerberus. That got me thinking, was it a coincidence? Why would professionals making a science fiction rpg in 2006 use ideas they found on my online galleries and stuff. I was just some kid. They certainly weren't garnering the kind of attention that lends itself to plagiarism. Anyway, I had mailed myself an early show bible with postdates and everything already by 06. I had physical proof that I'd come up with that N7 name before I saw it in Mass Effect. I could totally publish material using the name, and defend it with those documents. To this day I wonder, should I really back down? Was it really a coincidence. My strongest instinct is to say it was a total fluke. It just kinda happened. Nobody stole anything.
The point of this is to ask a question. Have any of you out there ever felt like some big wig took your idea, even though you're certain they couldn't have known? People imagine similar ideas all the time. The bow and arrow were invented simultaneously. Still, small time writers and artists have their materials appropriated by corporations and other creators all the time. If you have any anecdotes, please, share your experiences.
Post edited by Viethra on
Comments
The only solution I have is... If they actually Use Content or assets I personally generated, to make money, without attribution, deny it was, and I was never informed or given a chance to consent or what-have you... Then I would make a case for pursuing it.
The law grants a fair bit more breadth to interpretation of one's rights to copyright and IP and creations, but how strong a case you have, or how strong a need to pursue you have will draw the boundaries.
As an example I worked on a mod in highschool that was Halo themed, designed a cool gunship helo thing with chain guns on it and space for people. Bungie sent our head guy a letter saying we shouldn't use their universe IP even tho it's a fan mod, and we were like, OK. Now as of, I think Halo Reach, that same type of vehicle is in the game canon. It's not identical to what I made (mine looked a bit sleeker and Halo went in favor of a different aesthetic for human equipment with 343 studios) but one could look at my concept and easily think it was actual concept art.
Do I care ? Meh not really other than loving any chance I get in game to use it. It's possible that they just took the same inputs as me and said 'let's cross a Pelican with a Huey and give it a cool kind of open platform layout and badass rear tails' because it's not entirely un-obvious.... But of the many ways to interperet the concept, they hit close to home, and the seeds of it were cetainly cast upwind of their fields.
By other example I designed an upgrade part to a paintball gun and showed the concept to the owner of that company, as my company worked with his on a product we make. We were looking for quotes and he wanted to make it for us. But he also was working on a new basic version of that same type of part in plastic that would come on each new gun they sold. After seeing my design, a number of features on their part changed to directly match my shapes.
Not angry, he told me what they did before anyone else saw it, but I wasn't stoked that there was no option to receive public credit, though the fault is more in my court.
There are other projects where we are collaborating and giving companies design data and we are getting credit or royalties on the effort and that comes down to experience and knowing how to talk to the people in the right positions. It also helps to have some independently produced/published work, and a public name/image to stand on... As the risks of plagiarism start to heavily outweigh rewards.
The point is. Who cares? Ideas are worthless. All value lies in execution, not ideas.
A. the odds of them getting a script with a similar concept are extremely high
b. even if one exec didn't like the idea, another one might.
In another example, ideas holding value, even without execution, is how patent trolling work.
Every nerd at RIT had the idea for a democratic version of Slashdot, but none of them made Digg.
However, as ScoJo points out, Mass Effect was in development before this stuff was published online - so it's probably not the case.
If you have the idea on your own, and publish it in very limited fashion not explicitly and verifiably to a studio, you basically have zero rights unless there is direct plagiarism. The "execution" in all of these cases was the construction of a pitch/script and the presentation of said pitch/script in a formal or verifiable context.
In the spring of 2013 I posted a demo version of all the songs and lyrics on my blog. I tweeted Andy Rubin, the writer of Groundhog Day, about it. I got no response.
A few weeks ago Andy Rubin and Tim Minchin announced they were teaming up to write the book, lyrics and music for a Groundhog Day musical, and as far as I could tell from their stated timeline, Rubin contacted Tim Minchin about it last summer.
I have zero problems with the situation, as I never intended to do anything with my version of the musical myself, not much beyond what I already did. Either Andy Rubin didn't respond to me because he was already planning on working on a musical, so it was a coincidence of timing, or I nudged him to pursue it. Either way, Tim Minchin is one of my favorite musical comedians, and I really enjoyed Matilda the Musical when I saw it a few years ago in the West End. Now I get the benefit of having written my own version AND eventually seeing someone else's official version.
This kind of thing has happened many times before to me. But I'm with Scott: the idea is never worth anything, not to you, nor to anyone else. All that matters is doing something. Having an idea is not being creative.
Is there a critical mass where an idea condenses out of the air and becomes valuable?
For example I have an idea for a novel, I tell it to you guys. Someone else writes that novel instead. I can be butthurt but no value was lost. But what if I wrote and posted 2 chapters? 5 chapters? A short story version? The entire first draft? An unpublished version ready for print pending my successful kickstarter?
Must we say the value is worked out in sales figures and only something that makes money has worth...
I know we all have at least some idea of where something becomes a valuable concept; but is there any way to define or agree on a way to determine it?
Really, I feel like when you come up with the same kinds of ideas as what inevitably happens, it just shows how the creators of these things are not so different from you, they're just people who gained the money and skills to make these ideas happen. This should encourage you that the kind of things you come up with are actually usable.
But, that aside, I agree that ideas aren't really valuable on their own until you do stuff. Unless you have that one mega brilliant idea, and then maybe you shouldn't post it everywhere. Unless you're never gonna do something with it, and then who cares?
For example: an idea for a movie about cowboys vs aliens is worthless. A completed script detailing the entire story and scene information has value.
Example 2: an idea for a touchscreen is worthless. A document that details exactly how to make such a screen and how it works has value.
I'm gonna have to agree with the sentiment of Scott's point about ideas versus execution. I think people should have the mindset that an idea is like a seed that you plant, by implementing it, and the value is the crop you sew. So the mentality of it is conducive to success. Still, great execution skill and no ideas isn't very creative either. A skilled person that literally just copies an idea with high fidelity is not unlike those robots that build cars. A person that uses their skills and ideas in tandem to render a product transcends utility, and emerges an artist. Ideas are wasted without skill. Skill is mundane without ideas. Only by bringing ideas into reality with skill can you make art.