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Book Club - A Canticle for Liebowitz by Walter M. Miller Jr.

MrPeriodMrPeriod
in GeekNights

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Since reading Wool, we've discovered this particular sub-genre of post apocalyptic tales where all of human society is sealed in or trapped in some place. Even though there are many examples, almost all of them are relatively obscure things only geeks like us would know about. Logan's Run, Fallout, Wool, Phoenix Vol. 2: Future, Paranoia the tabletop RPG, etc.

Well, it was brought to our attention that the first work of this nature is a 1960 sci-fi novel entitled "A Canticle for Liebowitz" by Walter M. Miller, Jr. As soon as I heard of the book the frequency illusion set in. I ran into the book two or three more times, and it easily became the next book club selection.<?p>

A Canticle for Leibowitz is a post-apocalyptic science fiction novel by American writer Walter M. Miller, Jr., first published in 1960. Set in a Catholic monastery in the desert of the Southwestern United States after a devastating nuclear war, the story spans thousands of years as civilization rebuilds itself. The monks of the fictional Albertian Order of Leibowitz take up the mission of preserving the surviving remnants of man's scientific knowledge until the day the outside world is again ready for it.

-Wikipedia
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Comments

  • RymRym
    This book is more about Catholicism, Jews, religion, and the "nature of man" than it is about nuclear holocaust. The allegory is pretty heavy handed, especially in the third segment.

    It's also quite rambling at times, moreso in later chapters.

    Still worth a read, for sure. This is, after all, the precursor work to a lot of what you kids read and like today in terms of post-apocalyptic worldbuilding.
  • Luke BurrageLuke Burrage
    edited June 2014
    I've read and discussed it twice on my podcast. The second episode is my most comprehensive statement about it, but it's not exactly a "fun" listen.

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    SFBRP 216 – Walter M Miller Jr – A Canticle for Leibowitz



    Post edited by Luke Burrage on
  • RymRym
    I've pointedly avoided listening to your discussion (or reading any external discussion) until we do our episode (to avoid tainting my read). As soon as we do that episode, I'm really interested to hear what you have to say on the book.

    I do say that much of this book's intended meaning is lost on anyone who doesn't have a firm grasp of Christian (ideally Jesuit/Catholic) myth. Lots of references and even the core allegory of the "wandering Jew" would fall by the wayside.
  • Luke BurrageLuke Burrage
    I find all of that a bit obvious.

    My discussion is mostly about how so many people read this book wrong. They want things both ways on many issues.

    For example, if the book is about cyclical history, you have to admit the book is fiction as the cycles in the book don't match up with our world, so you can't then use the fictional book to say anything about our world. The book is talking about the church's own mistaken view of its own history and how they think that applies to their story and history in their own distorted view of the current world in the book. So the book is then about the distortion of reality and the control the church has over its members, and how this is only damaging to the flock and progress in general. It can't also be about how the church is a savior of the future or that it is saving ancient knowledge for the betterment of humanity, and instead the opposite of that.
  • IlmarinenIlmarinen
    Luke Burrage said:

    For example, if the book is about cyclical history, you have to admit the book is fiction as the cycles in the book don't match up with our world, so you can't then use the fictional book to say anything about our world.

    What? Since when did a metaphor have to be perfect to make a point?
  • Luke BurrageLuke Burrage
    It doesn't. But people are taking contradictory points from the same metaphor. And self-negating points from the same metaphors.

    To me it's really weird to read that people think the ending of this book is supportive of the Catholic church's views on suicide npand euthanasia. To me it is obviously the opposite. And, as it happened, the author committed suicide after writing the book. There are many layers of irony in the book. You can't just take the surface.
  • RymRym
    This is a book that cannot be appreciated without an understanding of the author and the social/political climate of the era in which it was written.
  • J.SharpJ.Sharp
    If Scott isn't interested in doing book club discussions any more, why not find a guest host to continue the series?
  • AprecheApreche
    J.Sharp said:

    If Scott isn't interested in doing book club discussions any more, why not find a guest host to continue the series?

    I think you misunderstand. I'm still interested. I just haven't gotten around to reading the book. It's summer. I'm going outside and shit.
  • J.SharpJ.Sharp
    Ah, my mistake then. I look forward to hearing the discussion.
  • DromaroDromaro
    Civ: Beyond Earth relevant bit.

    "Purity's philosophy is stated to be heavily inspired by A Canticle for Leibowitz."
  • DromaroDromaro
    So I'm about.....30% ish done with this. I've got some definite thoughts and opinions on this. Read faster, Scott!
  • TechparadoxTechparadox
    edited September 2014
    Book Club Book announced in forum: 23 June, 2014
    Current date: 25 September, 2014
    Elapsed time since announcement: 95 Days

    I'm pretty sure I could have written a book in the time it's taken Scott to read this one.
    Post edited by Techparadox on
  • 2bfree2bfree
    Maybe give up and pick a different book, the simplest explanation is Scott doesn't like this particular book.
  • Luke BurrageLuke Burrage
    I say Scott should just skip the last section. It's by far the weakest part, and the most infuriating.
  • RymRym
    Luke Burrage said:

    I say Scott should just skip the last section. It's by far the weakest part, and the most infuriating.

    Infuriating is a good word for that last section.

  • La Petit MortLa Petit Mort
    Rym and Luke should do the show on it. ;D
  • Luke BurrageLuke Burrage
    I might get Rym to do a Culture show with me. Geeknights vs SFBRP.
  • AprecheApreche
    I finished it.
  • 2bfree2bfree
    Apreche said:

    I finished it.

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  • DromaroDromaro
    For once, I'm keenly interested in what the Rubin has to say. I have the Catholic sections of the book down, I think some of the Judaism went over my head.
  • AprecheApreche
    Dromaro said:

    For once, I'm keenly interested in what the Rubin has to say. I have the Catholic sections of the book down, I think some of the Judaism went over my head.

    There's a lot more Catholic than Jewish up in this.
  • DromaroDromaro
    edited October 2014
    That much I gathered.

    EDIT: Huh. I hadn't noticed until now the thread name has a typo. Leibowitz, unlike the cake, is not a lie.
    Post edited by Dromaro on
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