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Renaming Board Game Genres

In my first thread, I was explaining the difference between "Eurogame" and "Ameritrash". I still cling to these terms since I still find they are useful (at least for me) in helping me sort out the games I like from the games I don't. However, there are quite a few people who felt both labels were equally stupid, so here's my proposal: why not use the terms "Story-driven", "Theme-heavy", "Conflict-driven", "Brain-burner", "Deep but conflict-light", "Solitaire", "Co-operative", etc. instead?

They're much more descriptive and less misleading than "Eurogame" and "Ameritrash".
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Comments

  • You're got a really big hang up for such an insignificant semantic issue. There are already a whole lexicon of words used to describe board games that are used mostly universally by members of the community. Instead of trying to invent your own that nobody else will use, just learn the terms that already exist.
  • Apreche said:

    You're got a really big hang up for such an insignificant semantic issue. There are already a whole lexicon of words used to describe board games that are used mostly universally by members of the community. Instead of trying to invent your own that nobody else will use, just learn the terms that already exist.

    "Eurogame" and "Ameritrash" already exist. Honestly Scott, if I get bored to death by games where all I do is just push cubes around in the most efficient manner, I have a right to lump every "Eurogame" in existence into one category and auto-reject them despite other factors as theme, depth, visual aesthetics, elegance, and flow. On the other hand, I'm far more interested in conflict-driven games, and Ameritrash games tend to do that the most.


  • Why should your personal preferences have any effect whatsoever on the language that everyone shares?
  • Apreche said:

    Why should your personal preferences have any effect whatsoever on the language that everyone shares?

    It doesn't. "Eurogame" and "Ameritrash" had been being used before I got into the board gaming hobby. And to this day, I still find it easy to lump games into either "Eurogame" or "Ameritrash".

  • Good for you.
  • There are two genre's of games. Those I like to play, and those that I don't.
  • I don't see anything wrong with using descriptive labels for games - people tend to classify things, and those classifications will change organically over time. Rym pushed pretty hard to get "Ideogame" adopted as a response to "Orthogame" from Characteristics of Games.

    On BGG, Euro and Ameritrash are frequently used, and are often presented in opposition to one another. In some social circles, preferences for one over the other can become a form of (sub) cultural identification, in the same way that people attach themselves to a particular role-playing system or genre of music.
  • Personally, I tend to classify board games by the mechanics that make up a game. Here are just a few examples:

    Worker placement
    Area control
    Auction
    Drafting
    Deck building
    Tile placement
    Stock market
    Story-driven
    Cooperative
    Hidden traitor

    This is by no means an all-inclusive list, but when I talk to people who are into board games, describing a game in these terms is the fastest way to convey what the game is about, as opposed to using now-dated terms like "Euro" or "Ameritrash." Additionally, you can mix and match terms to better describe a game.

    What genre a game is in doesn't matter. How you play the game does.

  • What genre a game is in doesn't matter. How you play the game does.

    Yes it does. Again, for the fifth time: I WILL NOT play a Eurogame unless I absolutely have to. Period.
  • So you are saying that there are ways to make you play Eurogames? Question mark?
  • edited August 2014
    Hethalos said:


    What genre a game is in doesn't matter. How you play the game does.

    Yes it does. Again, for the fifth time: I WILL NOT play a Eurogame unless I absolutely have to. Period.
    Everyone on earth has their own unique preferences. People like what they like and want what they want. Discussing it is really a waste of breath. Why would anyone else care what kinds of games you want to play?

    I like MegaMan! Ok, so what?
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • Personally, I tend to classify board games by the mechanics that make up a game. Here are just a few examples:

    Worker placement
    Area control
    Auction
    Drafting
    Deck building
    Tile placement
    Stock market
    Story-driven
    Cooperative
    Hidden traitor

    This is by no means an all-inclusive list, but when I talk to people who are into board games, describing a game in these terms is the fastest way to convey what the game is about, as opposed to using now-dated terms like "Euro" or "Ameritrash." Additionally, you can mix and match terms to better describe a game.

    What genre a game is in doesn't matter. How you play the game does.

    This, exactly. It is now pretty common practice to describe a genre by its primary mechanic, or combination of popular mechanics.
    Hethalos said:


    What genre a game is in doesn't matter. How you play the game does.

    Yes it does. Again, for the fifth time: I WILL NOT play a Eurogame unless I absolutely have to. Period.
    If all games are either Euro or Ameritrash and you refuse to play Euro games, then doesn't that force you to only play Ameritrash games? Also, there are a lot of "Euro" games that are made in Americans. The highest prestige a game can garner is the Spiel de Jahres, which is rewarded in Europe, but American made games can win it.
  • Neocloud said:


    If all games are either Euro or Ameritrash and you refuse to play Euro games, then doesn't that force you to only play Ameritrash games? Also, there are a lot of "Euro" games that are made in Americans. The highest prestige a game can garner is the Spiel de Jahres, which is rewarded in Europe, but American made games can win it.

    Whatever geographical connotations the terms have are vestigial. The terms describe the general core priorities of a board game. The following is taken from a professional board game designer:


    Mechanisms, like components, are too applicable across all sorts of designs to be a way of talking about big categories of games. Of we can (and often do) talk about mechanics first (e.g. "I'm looking for a new worker placement game!") ... but you can have worker placement games that lean towards euro as much as you can have them that learn towards AT. Ditto for nearly all other mechanics. Talking about mechanics is certainly important, but it is a different quality that is being considered than the one of "core priorities" as it relates to euro or AT games.

    For reference:

    Ameritrash Core Priority = Drama
    Eurogame Core Priority = Challenge
    German Family Core Priority = Engagement
    Wargame Core Priority = Realism/Fidelity
    Abstract Core Priority = Minimalism/Elegance
    Social Game Core Priority = Socialization!
    Collectable/Customizable Core Priority = The "Metagame"

    and so on.... at least this is where my thinking has gone. These Core Priorities inform, by and large, the designer's perspective and what they are orienting the design of the game towards. Obviously part of this orientation takes into account the intended audience and what they are wanting out of the experience.


  • Apreche said:

    Hethalos said:


    What genre a game is in doesn't matter. How you play the game does.

    Yes it does. Again, for the fifth time: I WILL NOT play a Eurogame unless I absolutely have to. Period.
    Everyone on earth has their own unique preferences. People like what they like and want what they want. Discussing it is really a waste of breath. Why would anyone else care what kinds of games you want to play?

    I like MegaMan! Ok, so what?
    There are plenty of board gamers who cannot tolerate something like Runewars, Titan, or even Civilization: The Board Game. I've met many folks on Board Game Geek who declare that they're primarily Eurogamers because they hate direct player conflict, wargamers because they enjoy historical accuracy or combat in their games, or Ameritrashers since they love raiding, pillaging, and drama.

    If someone were to just come up to me and say, "wanna play a game?", of course I would care about what kinds of games the other guy wants to play. That's how gaming groups are formed, and I certainly wouldn't want to be stuck playing some cube-pusher with a bunch of Eurogamers.

  • Classify by mechanics, not genre.
  • Hethalos said:

    Apreche said:

    Hethalos said:


    What genre a game is in doesn't matter. How you play the game does.

    Yes it does. Again, for the fifth time: I WILL NOT play a Eurogame unless I absolutely have to. Period.
    Everyone on earth has their own unique preferences. People like what they like and want what they want. Discussing it is really a waste of breath. Why would anyone else care what kinds of games you want to play?

    I like MegaMan! Ok, so what?
    There are plenty of board gamers who cannot tolerate something like Runewars, Titan, or even Civilization: The Board Game. I've met many folks on Board Game Geek who declare that they're primarily Eurogamers because they hate direct player conflict, wargamers because they enjoy historical accuracy or combat in their games, or Ameritrashers since they love raiding, pillaging, and drama.

    If someone were to just come up to me and say, "wanna play a game?", of course I would care about what kinds of games the other guy wants to play. That's how gaming groups are formed, and I certainly wouldn't want to be stuck playing some cube-pusher with a bunch of Eurogamers.

    So you're saying the whole world needs to conform to your semantics so you aren't accidentally tricked into play a game you don't like? What are you even saying?
  • Apreche said:

    Hethalos said:

    Apreche said:

    Hethalos said:


    What genre a game is in doesn't matter. How you play the game does.

    Yes it does. Again, for the fifth time: I WILL NOT play a Eurogame unless I absolutely have to. Period.
    Everyone on earth has their own unique preferences. People like what they like and want what they want. Discussing it is really a waste of breath. Why would anyone else care what kinds of games you want to play?

    I like MegaMan! Ok, so what?
    There are plenty of board gamers who cannot tolerate something like Runewars, Titan, or even Civilization: The Board Game. I've met many folks on Board Game Geek who declare that they're primarily Eurogamers because they hate direct player conflict, wargamers because they enjoy historical accuracy or combat in their games, or Ameritrashers since they love raiding, pillaging, and drama.

    If someone were to just come up to me and say, "wanna play a game?", of course I would care about what kinds of games the other guy wants to play. That's how gaming groups are formed, and I certainly wouldn't want to be stuck playing some cube-pusher with a bunch of Eurogamers.

    So you're saying the whole world needs to conform to your semantics so you aren't accidentally tricked into play a game you don't like? What are you even saying?
    They're not my semantics. Many Board Game Geek regulars use them quite frequently. Language doesn't have to be 100% precise all the time. Otherwise, why bother with words like "epic", "fun", "not fun", "beautiful", "awesome", "good", "bad", or "ugly"? If the other player insists, I might as well be a little more specific and ask them exactly what the game entails. But usually, both Euros and Ameritrash games have a certain level of conflict associated with them and each conveys a decent amount of information from which I can base my decisions upon, and it won't matter whether a Euro has negotiation, drafting, engine-building, or racing as their main mechanisms. Most of them feel the same.
  • Apreche said:

    Hethalos said:

    Apreche said:

    Hethalos said:


    What genre a game is in doesn't matter. How you play the game does.

    Yes it does. Again, for the fifth time: I WILL NOT play a Eurogame unless I absolutely have to. Period.
    Everyone on earth has their own unique preferences. People like what they like and want what they want. Discussing it is really a waste of breath. Why would anyone else care what kinds of games you want to play?

    I like MegaMan! Ok, so what?
    There are plenty of board gamers who cannot tolerate something like Runewars, Titan, or even Civilization: The Board Game. I've met many folks on Board Game Geek who declare that they're primarily Eurogamers because they hate direct player conflict, wargamers because they enjoy historical accuracy or combat in their games, or Ameritrashers since they love raiding, pillaging, and drama.

    If someone were to just come up to me and say, "wanna play a game?", of course I would care about what kinds of games the other guy wants to play. That's how gaming groups are formed, and I certainly wouldn't want to be stuck playing some cube-pusher with a bunch of Eurogamers.

    So you're saying the whole world needs to conform to your semantics so you aren't accidentally tricked into play a game you don't like? What are you even saying?
    They're not my semantics. Many Board Game Geek regulars use them quite frequently. Language doesn't have to be 100% precise all the time. Otherwise, why bother with words like "epic", "fun", "not fun", "beautiful", "awesome", "good", "bad", or "ugly"? If the other player insists, I might as well be a little more specific and ask them exactly what the game entails. But usually, both Euros and Ameritrash games have a certain level of conflict associated with them and each conveys a decent amount of information from which I can base my decisions upon, and it won't matter whether a Euro has negotiation, drafting, engine-building, or racing as their main mechanisms since most of them share common attributes, especially limited direct player conflict.

  • Games should only be described by their themes. For example, Bohnanza is most accurately and concisely described as a "Bean Trading game." Tigris and Euphrates is a "River Control game." Agricola is a "Procreation and Child Rearing Simulation." Well I think you get the point I'm making here, and I think you will find that I am completely correct.
  • Do you, even know what semantics means?

    As for being precise, it's true. Language is not precise all the time. But when you debate/argue among intelligent adults, as we do here, we ONLY use perfectly precise language. Your language is so slapdash we don't even know what you are trying to say.
  • Seriously, has anyone actually played something with more blood-and-guts conflict like Runewars, Titan, or Mage Wars where combat is a major, defining part of the game? I've played games like Agricola, Dominion, Tigris and Euphrates, Caylus and their core focuses are completely different from the first three listed.

  • Yes, I have.
  • Apreche said:

    Do you, even know what semantics means?

    As for being precise, it's true. Language is not precise all the time. But when you debate/argue among intelligent adults, as we do here, we ONLY use perfectly precise language. Your language is so slapdash we don't even know what you are trying to say.

    Maybe this article might clear a few things up.

  • Yes, different games are different from each other. SHOCKING.

    What is the point you are trying to make? Are you even trying to make a point?
  • edited August 2014
    I perosnally prefer to call boardgames things based on the material that makes up more than 50% of the included pieces (not counting the box obviously). My first step, when receiving any new game, is to separate every piece into corresponding piles on my kitchen table. I then gather each pile into its own jumbo sized ziplock bag and head down to the local supermarket to weigh each bag in the produce scales (I do not have a scale at home). I record the results in my journal, and then transfer the data into a spreadsheet. After analyzing the data, I label the game box accordingly; "Wood Fun Time" for mostly wooden games, "Plastic Play Joy" for the plastic ones, and finally "Paper Good Times" for the paper/cardboard ones. I have yet to find a mostly metal board game.
    Post edited by johndis on
  • edited August 2014
    johndis said:

    I perosnally prefer to call boardgames things based on the material that makes up more than 50% of the included pieces (not counting the box obviously). My first step, when receiving any new game, is to separate every piece into corresponding piles on my kitchen table. I then gather each pile into its own jumbo sized ziplock bag and head down to the local supermarket to weigh each bag in the produce scales (I do not have a scale at home). I record the results in my journal, and then transfer the data into a spreadsheet. After analyzing the data, I label the game box accordingly; "Wood Fun Time" for mostly wooden games, "Plastic Play Joy" for the plastic ones, and finally "Paper Good Times" for the paper/cardboard ones. I have yet to find a mostly metal board game.

    Warhammer 40K is mostly metal, if you pay enough money.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • Ahh yes, well then.... "Pewter Paradise"
  • edited August 2014
    Apreche said:

    Yes, different games are different from each other. SHOCKING.

    What is the point you are trying to make? Are you even trying to make a point?

    My point is, the terms "Eurogame" and "Ameritrash" still have utility in at least giving a generalized idea of the types of board games. I honestly don't see how it's stupid to group games centered on out-building your opponents and pushing cubes for VPs into one category and having a separate category for games more centered on direct player conflict. There are edge cases, but many games can be sufficiently as one or the other, and if not, there are plenty of other categories such as "Casual", "Cooperative", "Abstract", "Customizable", or "Wargame".

    Puerto Rico, Caylus, Terra Mystica, Dominion, Settlers of Catan, and Agricola are different, but they share so many common features such as having few to no opportunities to directly attack your opponents, racing for VPs by building efficient economic engines, and emphasizing mechanics more than theme. I seriously don't see how Titan would be lumped into the "Eurogame" category anytime soon.

    Post edited by Hethalos on
  • I stay away from mini's for the same reason I stayed away from CCG's. They euqal Pay to Win, pure and simple. You do have to have some brains to control said super army or deck, but it will still allow you to beat most people if you know how to handle it properly. There are types of games that draw me in, and types that I typically stay away from for various reasons. I often find myself checking a game on BGG before buying to get a general consensus as to whether or not the game is better than average, but I don't usually spend time looking at what people say about it.

    I have also bought several games based on recommendations from people here on the forum. I generally don't care for long 4x games, but I really dig Eclipse if I can set aside the time for it. I think the time has come around to describe a game or boil it down to it's mechanics rather than whether it is Euro or Ameritrash, as I said before, many really good games have originated in the US.

    Ameritrash is basically a term for big box store shelved games made by companies like Milton Bradley and Parker Brothers and Hasbro. Have any of these companies created and sold "good" games? Absolutely they have, but they also put out what most serious board game enthusiasts refer to as bad games. I grew up playing Sorry!, Monopoly, Life, etc., and I enjoyed playing them with friends and family, but later on, I discovered that there was more to the game world than what I could find at Walmart. Since then, I play games that most people haven't heard of because even if they walk into a hobby game store, they are still looking at stuff like Apples to Apples or the newest version of Monopoly.

    When I describe the games I play to my non gamer friends and acquaintances, I explain to them that I play games that usually require more skill than luck, and often explain to them why some of the main stream games are actually bad games or non-games (like Sorry!).

    The terms Ameritrash and Euro to describe games are used by people to typically play the "Euro" games. People who play the mainstream games like Monopoly call them board games.
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