Missed Apreche's post before, but what you seem to be saying is that I don't understand how end users think/work. As someone who has been doing corporate IT support from desktop to UI design to data modeling to workflow for 15 years:
Missed Apreche's post before, but what you seem to be saying is that I don't understand how end users think/work. As someone who has been doing corporate IT support from desktop to UI design to data modeling to workflow for 15 years:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!!
If you are so good at designing user interfaces, shouldn't you be living a life of luxury working for Apple making Jony Ive money? Show us your mockup for a hypothetical Apple TV UI.
As for those extra icons causing me "great distress", I've addressed that twice already. Trolls gonna be trolls, tho.
So your argument is that Apple iPhone is the penultimate user interface second only to direct neural input and that us filthy proles are precluded from opining due to our unwashed status?
When you're at the point of defending creating a "shit" folder to store all of the UI cruft that Apple won't let you delete or hide because your Gram Gram might get confused... you're at the end of your rope, man.
Even if they buried the ability to hide those icons in a toggle switch 3 layers deep in Settings... that'd be better than what you've got now.
And at any rate, this is just one of half a dozen or so glaring interface problems with iOS.
By the way, my grandpa uses Android just fine and he's half blind. The last time I was at his house I was asked to "reinstall Outlook" because he'd dragged the shortcut icon on the Windows Vista desktop to the recycling bin.
When you're at the point of defending creating a "shit" folder to store all of the UI cruft that Apple won't let you delete or hide because your Gram Gram might get confused... you're at the end of your rope, man.
Even if they buried the ability to hide those icons in a toggle switch 3 layers deep in Settings... that'd be better than what you've got now.
And at any rate, this is just one of half a dozen or so glaring interface problems with iOS.
By the way, my grandpa uses Android just fine and he's half blind. The last time I was at his house I was asked to "reinstall Outlook" because he'd dragged the shortcut icon on the Windows Vista desktop to the recycling bin.
You are literally acting as if you are the only person who has to use the interface. C'mon man, get over yourself. There is no denying that their design is the simplest and easiest to use for the most users. Yeah it has its annoying aspects because its design is uncompromising but if you can't see that then I'm not sure what to say to you.
I'm not acting that way. I said, bury the advanced options deep. Bury them beneath Minas Tirith if you want. But HAVE them.
This is the line of thinking that gets companies into trouble. You stick to a design and you do it well. Trying to pander to other people's desires because a small segment of the population wants those features is how you get into trouble. Apple realizes this and they understand perfectly well they won't win those people over. But if you look at the numbers you can easily see they've won over the majority of the people they need to to be on top. They stand to lose more than they gain by giving in to desires of users who want an experience Android is happy to fill.
As for those extra icons causing me "great distress", I've addressed that twice already. Trolls gonna be trolls, tho.
So your argument is that Apple iPhone is the penultimate user interface second only to direct neural input and that us filthy proles are precluded from opining due to our unwashed status?
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Your opinion about what constitutes good or bad user interface doesn't mean shit. Just like your medical and legal opinions aren't worth shit because you aren't a doctor or lawyer. You are not qualified to make any claims about what is good or bad. All you can make claims about is what you like and what you do not like.
Since you don't seem to like certain things about iOS, that's fine. You don't have to like them. You like what you like. Nobody is disputing that fact. But you can't translate your personal preference into a value judgement. Just because I don't like the board game Go I don't translate that into a claim that Go is a bad game.
You are clearly upset and angry over very trivial things. If you have some sort of emotional connection to some icons on a screen to the point at which they upset you, you have some problems. Being so easily irritable means that what you have to say on the subject, or any subject, is worth even less than it would normally be.
So I offered my advice as a person who used to have the same problems, on how to overcome them. Stop caring about stupid shit like a few icons on a screen. Nobody is defending it as good, we just don't care. It's almost impossible for something to be less important than undeletable icons. Apple is never going to change and make them deletable. But you can change yourself. The perfect mobile experience is available now. You just have to change your mind and decide that it's perfect, and it will become so!
The perfect mobile experience is available now You just have to change your mind and decide that it's perfect, and it will become so!
I agree with most of what you said, but this sounds a bit "cult-esque" don't you think?
Also hooray for pointless holy wars!
OSX design is completely garbage if not for its kernel (which still has it's own performance issues). I have no qualms about berating Apple or any other company. But there is no denying that iOS is an impressive design. There are plenty of things I like about Android, and I personally think many aspects of Windows Phone OS and it's architecture is superior to both. But I'll never own a Windows Phone and I probably won't own another Android unless things go horribly wrong with iOS.
The perfect mobile experience is available now You just have to change your mind and decide that it's perfect, and it will become so!
I agree with most of what you said, but this sounds a bit "cult-esque" don't you think?
Also hooray for pointless holy wars!
The only reason I am complaining about Android is not user interface, but because it's actually broken. You can't get updates. That's not a matter of opinion, it's an indisputable fact. There are apps that are not available on Android, like all of the Adobe CC apps I use and pay for. Apple Pay is actually good, and accepted at a lot of places. Google Wallet is not.
The only problems there seem to be with iOS that anyone has pointed out are personal preferences on user interface. If it's a matter of personal preference it can be solved by changing yourself. If it's a matter of actual technological flaw, nothing can be done.
If Android didn't have such problems I could trivially switch to it and change my preferences to match it. I might even do so since I use so many Google apps.
I have done this many times in the past. When I have to use a non-vim editor I don't go installing some plugin to make it vim-like. I just learn the new shortcuts for it. If I play two different video games where the keyboard controls are different, I just deal with it rather than muck about in the settings.
Trust me. Life is better this way. When you try to customize shit is when things go wrong. Just go with defaults. You can't break yourself by changing your mind. You can break technological devices by fucking around with them.
I bought a used Nexus 5 from Tmobile for $300. Comes with a new battery. Arrives Monday.
That'll hold me until September.
I almost tried the Z3c. I could get a new one for about $380, and the hardware is amazing. However, research found lots of 5.0 upgrade problems, and 5.1 isn't forthcoming. The best hardware in the world is awful without good software. I can't trust Sony: even their own site's reviews are mostly complaints about the upgrade breaking things...
Just like all the pro gamers who think they know best what changes should be made to Counter-Strike?
Well, the actual CS pros have some good ideas...
Just like the Tribes 2 pros had good ideas and the Hearthstone pros have good ideas?
Were there Tribes 2 pros like there are CS pros now?
I'm sure some pros are talking out of their butts, but most professional comments I've read vis-a-vis weapon or map changes seemed considered and not "ZOMG NERF AWP PLS".
It's just that most people don't like change in any way. I remember hearing a lot from a MS developer about when they switched to the ribbon design in 2007(?) Office and the more vocal people went bananas. Claiming it was "more difficult to use etc". But they had done EXTENSIVE research on how people tend to work within Office applications and realizing that people were having difficulty finding certain features that would be more useful to them. So they exposed them through that interface. You still have the people being vocal, but then you have even more people realizing there were things that they didn't know existed or that it's easier to find them faster. Fast forward to now and you don't hear any of those same complaints because people have figured out how it works. But what if it went back to the way it used to be? I guarantee there would be the same people being vocal about how they didn't like it.
There are always hiccups when you move to a different interface to a new one. Especially when it impedes productivity during the learning process. But a genuinely good design those issues will go away with learning and productivity on other fronts will move forward. If it's still an issue then you're either using the wrong tool for the job, or the design is bad. But people often construe those to be the same.
Just like all the pro gamers who think they know best what changes should be made to Counter-Strike?
Well, the actual CS pros have some good ideas...
Just like the Tribes 2 pros had good ideas and the Hearthstone pros have good ideas?
Were there Tribes 2 pros like there are CS pros now?
I'm sure some pros are talking out of their butts, but most professional comments I've read vis-a-vis weapon or map changes seemed considered and not "ZOMG NERF AWP PLS".
Almost never do the skills of a user/consumer overlap with the skills required to be a producer/creator.
Even someone who has read all the greatest comic books of all time has none of the qualifications to make even a crappy comic. They have learned to read comics, not to draw or write stories.
Someone who is the greatest video game player of all time has none of the qualifications required to make video games. They have practiced clicking on heads. They haven't practiced programming, designing, 3D modeling, etc.
It's not impossible for a user to have good ideas, but since they have no qualifications they are safe to ignore. There are very few, if any, examples in history where a user or consumer made a great contribution as a producer unless they have also separately practiced those other skills. I can't think of even one.
But you're not a mobile carrier infrastructure engineer or a mobile OS dev so what do you know?
Oh wait you can compare the work of experts and comment on the deltas. Like everyone else in this thread is doing...
I'm not commenting on those things. I'm commenting on absolute facts. Most Android phones do not receive updates to the latest version of Android when it becomes available, if ever. You don't need to be an expert to know this. It's a fact. Not an opinion.
Most Adobe CC mobile apps are not available for Android, and only iOS. This is a fact, not an opinion. You can verify it yourself on Adobe's web site.
A grid of icons is a bad design for a home screen on a phone. This is an opinion. Not a fact. Therefore, it's only carries weight if it is from an expert.
You don't like a grid of icons or undelete-able icons. Again, you are allowed to have that preference. Nobody is saying you don't have that preference. I'm just saying you can change that preference. It's impossible to magically make a big company provide software for phones if they do not want to. It is possible to change your mind.
Therefore the only options are:
1) Use a phone with a UI you like, but suffer with brokenness. 2) Use a non-broken phone with a UI you don't like and be unhappy. 3) Change what you like so you are happy with the non-broken phone. 4) Use no phone at all?
I'm commenting on absolute facts in the same way that you are. I'm discussing idiosyncracies of the iOS platform as compared to Android and how I personally prioritize those things. In the same way, you're prioritizing Android/Google's relationship with carriers and the mechanism by which updates are pushed (or fail to be pushed, or are delayed..)
Android 4.3.x vs 4.4.x is not a usability issue. 4.3.x was usable when released, and it's usable today, except that there may be changes you prefer in 4.4x. It may be a security issue, but typically there's an intermediate patch if that's the case.
It's subjective in both cases, but you want to pretend that it's not.
I'm just saying, I'm not mad. There seems to be some sort of perception on MATATAT's and Rochelle's parts that I'm agitated about this. Maybe on Scott's, too. I'm just discussing the relative merits of two mobile phone platforms. I'm not the one who's getting angry about it. On my part, there's nothing to "let go". It's just a non-sequitur from my perspective and I had no idea anybody was upset until those posts.
Comments
http://www.wired.com/2015/04/samsung-gear-s6-vr-headset/
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!!
So your argument is that Apple iPhone is the penultimate user interface second only to direct neural input and that us filthy proles are precluded from opining due to our unwashed status?
Even if they buried the ability to hide those icons in a toggle switch 3 layers deep in Settings... that'd be better than what you've got now.
And at any rate, this is just one of half a dozen or so glaring interface problems with iOS.
By the way, my grandpa uses Android just fine and he's half blind. The last time I was at his house I was asked to "reinstall Outlook" because he'd dragged the shortcut icon on the Windows Vista desktop to the recycling bin.
Since you don't seem to like certain things about iOS, that's fine. You don't have to like them. You like what you like. Nobody is disputing that fact. But you can't translate your personal preference into a value judgement. Just because I don't like the board game Go I don't translate that into a claim that Go is a bad game.
You are clearly upset and angry over very trivial things. If you have some sort of emotional connection to some icons on a screen to the point at which they upset you, you have some problems. Being so easily irritable means that what you have to say on the subject, or any subject, is worth even less than it would normally be.
So I offered my advice as a person who used to have the same problems, on how to overcome them. Stop caring about stupid shit like a few icons on a screen. Nobody is defending it as good, we just don't care. It's almost impossible for something to be less important than undeletable icons. Apple is never going to change and make them deletable. But you can change yourself. The perfect mobile experience is available now. You just have to change your mind and decide that it's perfect, and it will become so!
Also hooray for pointless holy wars!
The only problems there seem to be with iOS that anyone has pointed out are personal preferences on user interface. If it's a matter of personal preference it can be solved by changing yourself. If it's a matter of actual technological flaw, nothing can be done.
If Android didn't have such problems I could trivially switch to it and change my preferences to match it. I might even do so since I use so many Google apps.
I have done this many times in the past. When I have to use a non-vim editor I don't go installing some plugin to make it vim-like. I just learn the new shortcuts for it. If I play two different video games where the keyboard controls are different, I just deal with it rather than muck about in the settings.
Trust me. Life is better this way. When you try to customize shit is when things go wrong. Just go with defaults. You can't break yourself by changing your mind. You can break technological devices by fucking around with them.
That'll hold me until September.
I almost tried the Z3c. I could get a new one for about $380, and the hardware is amazing. However, research found lots of 5.0 upgrade problems, and 5.1 isn't forthcoming. The best hardware in the world is awful without good software. I can't trust Sony: even their own site's reviews are mostly complaints about the upgrade breaking things...
I'm sure some pros are talking out of their butts, but most professional comments I've read vis-a-vis weapon or map changes seemed considered and not "ZOMG NERF AWP PLS".
There are always hiccups when you move to a different interface to a new one. Especially when it impedes productivity during the learning process. But a genuinely good design those issues will go away with learning and productivity on other fronts will move forward. If it's still an issue then you're either using the wrong tool for the job, or the design is bad. But people often construe those to be the same.
Even someone who has read all the greatest comic books of all time has none of the qualifications to make even a crappy comic. They have learned to read comics, not to draw or write stories.
Someone who is the greatest video game player of all time has none of the qualifications required to make video games. They have practiced clicking on heads. They haven't practiced programming, designing, 3D modeling, etc.
It's not impossible for a user to have good ideas, but since they have no qualifications they are safe to ignore. There are very few, if any, examples in history where a user or consumer made a great contribution as a producer unless they have also separately practiced those other skills. I can't think of even one.
Oh wait you can compare the work of experts and comment on the deltas. Like everyone else in this thread is doing...
Let it go.
Most Adobe CC mobile apps are not available for Android, and only iOS. This is a fact, not an opinion. You can verify it yourself on Adobe's web site.
A grid of icons is a bad design for a home screen on a phone. This is an opinion. Not a fact. Therefore, it's only carries weight if it is from an expert.
You don't like a grid of icons or undelete-able icons. Again, you are allowed to have that preference. Nobody is saying you don't have that preference. I'm just saying you can change that preference. It's impossible to magically make a big company provide software for phones if they do not want to. It is possible to change your mind.
Therefore the only options are:
1) Use a phone with a UI you like, but suffer with brokenness.
2) Use a non-broken phone with a UI you don't like and be unhappy.
3) Change what you like so you are happy with the non-broken phone.
4) Use no phone at all?
Option 3 leads to happiness. Choose option 3.
Android 4.3.x vs 4.4.x is not a usability issue. 4.3.x was usable when released, and it's usable today, except that there may be changes you prefer in 4.4x. It may be a security issue, but typically there's an intermediate patch if that's the case.
It's subjective in both cases, but you want to pretend that it's not.
Confused, but not mad. Yo.