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  • Removing functionality and forcing me to only use my computer in a single fashion (yours) is nothing less than a dickhead move.
    It's standard practice in corporate IT. The reason is simple: many users often have a very bad personal workflow, which causes problems they can't see. WYSIWYG tends to make bad code and is a pain to maintain. No one has a good solution yet. The result is that actually forcing your users to mark their own writing up manually is faster, more efficient, and cheaper.

    This obviously isn't corporate IT, so the same rules don't apply. Here, though, the buttons still cause problems that none of you can see (but with which we still have to deal). Remember when we supported BBcode? It's a terrible standard that no one should use for anything, and it gave us endless trouble.

    Scott aside, you all should write your own html for all basic formatting. If you don't know basic formatting html, you should learn it. As an IT professional, I can tell you that employees who know html are highly valued regardless of their actual jobs. As for video/picture links and quoting, I do feel that we should probably write or find a Vanilla extension to better integrate them and/or do cool things. These are a value-add. A "bold" button is not.
  • Hey, can we get keyboard shortcuts for the various tags? Ctrl+I for italics and Ctrl+Shift+I for closing?
  • So: color, video, and picture link, plus the quoting. Those are useful. The rest aren't.
    Those are the only ones I use, actually, so I'm fine with that. Color is useful mostly because I don't remember the various color designations.
    As an IT professional, I can tell you that employees who know html are highly valued regardless of their actual jobs.
    Well, in that field, sure. We have an IT department over here. Laboratorians like myself don't need to know a goddamn bit of HTML. Be a good little cog and know your place.
  • As for video/picture links and quoting, I do feel that we should probably write or find a Vanilla extension to better integrate them and/or do cool things. These are a value-add. A "bold" button is not.
    The correct solution would be to have some sort of bookmarklet. You would go to a youtube video, and you would have a bookmark that says "post to FRC forums". Of course, you wouldn't execute this bookmark by clicking on it. You would use the keywords feature in Firefox and press something like

    ctrl+l, frcpost, enter
  • edited March 2010
    Color is useful mostly because I don't remember the various color designations.
    Simple lesson on color for the web.

    Lesson #1, you can use words like red, green blue, gray, grey, black, cyan, magenta. They work!

    Lesson #2, all non-word colors are HEX. HEX colors are Red Green Blue. R, G, B. 00 is the lowest, which is zero in decimal. FF is the highest, which is 255 in decimal.

    00FF00 is pure green.
    FF0000 is pure red
    0000FF is pure blue
    000000 is black
    FFFFFF is white
    00FFFF is cyan

    222222 is very dark gray
    CCCCC is light gray

    and so on.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • 238E23 is one of my favorite colors.
  • Well, in that field, sure. We have an IT department over here. Laboratorians like myself don't need to know a goddamn bit of HTML. Be a good little cog and know your place.
    In non-IT fields. The people using my tech are not often techs. But non-techs who can add documentation on business processes to a wiki are invaluable. WYSIWYG wikis are horrible. Hence, knowing html allows for rapid wiki-style documentation, which is something auditors love.
  • GeoGeo
    edited March 2010
    That is a rather nice color Rym...Just like every other shade of Dark Green.
    Post edited by Geo on
  • The fact that many of the people at my workplace know HTML makes many things far less painful than they would be otherwise.
  • I guess you're right. I should learn how to do TIG welding and metal fabrication so I can build my own stainless steel conical fermenters.
  • And I should learn how to change my oil, spark plugs, and brake pads since I drive a car...oh wait, I know that already.
  • Here's a quick tip: if you want lots of different shades to work well together, just use a simple series of numbers. My favourite is 123456, then 234567, then 345678, etc, etc, etc. It works really nicely to unify the feel of a page layout.
  • I guess you're right. I should learn how to do TIG welding and metal fabrication so I can build my own stainless steel conical fermenters.
    Diminishing returns. With html, the investment is minimal, and the rewards are manifold. A self-documenting workforce is immensely valuable.
    That is a rather nice color Rym...Just like every other shade of Dark Green.
    I settled on that for a design almost ten years ago. The clincher was that it was equally useful in light-on-dark and dark-on-light designs.
  • Actually, while I argued very strongly against Scott that everyone should be more computer literate and his view that we shouldn't allow people to use simple devices like iPads, I agree that any knowledge worker, or anyone who is paid to use computers, should learn basic html formatting. WYSIWYG editors are just the worst thing ever. No wait... BBcode is worse.

    But I still want that video, image and link icon for the forum.
  • I guess you're right. I should learn how to do TIG welding and metal fabrication so I can build my own stainless steel conical fermenters.
    Think more like literacy. If someone can only read, and can't write, that's not really great. I don't think that counts as fully literate. From my perspective, if you can read web pages, but can't write them you're only half-literate. If you can use software, but can't write it, you're half-literate.

    Now look at where things are going. Everything is an app. Books are apps. Newspapers are apps. Everything. Not being able to write even HTML, it's going to be pretty rough for you.
  • edited March 2010
    The clincher was that it was equally useful in light-on-dark and dark-on-light designs.
    Oh Rym, you're such a nerd. *Looks across at the three laptops open on his desk.. two of which are installing Windows.*
    Post edited by Omnutia on
  • manifold
    The meaning of this word is vastly different in English compared to my automotive vocabulary.
  • I don't know how much my input counts (since I don't post much), but I only use the button for video tags- and only because its quick, and I know it will work properly. I type all of the other HTML out by habit. I agree that buttons would make it easier for mobile users (even though I don't use one for this purpose).
    If it's work to keep them, fair enough, but don't remove them out of some misjudged sense of "teaching people the right way to use their computers."
    Notice how he didn't say he was actually going to remove them. However, if they break (which they likely will), he won't fix them. People always forget that often simple GUI widgets require substantial work and support to maintain, far more than the value of said widgets in the first place.
    My only qualm is that if the buttons end up not working and won't be fixed, then just get rid of them. There's no point in having unusable buttons taking up space.
  • Now look at where things are going. Everything is an app. Books are apps. Newspapers are apps. Everything. Not being able to write even HTML, it's going to be pretty rough for you.
    And yet 95+% of the population manages.
  • edited March 2010
    manifold
    The meaning of this word is vastly different in English compared to my automotive vocabulary.
    Manifold, manyfold, manifold, manyfold, let's call the whole thing off.
    Post edited by Luke Burrage on
  • Manifold, many-fold, manifold, many-fold, let's call the whole thing off.
    Hmmmmm, perhaps that explains the origin of the word when the original engine manifolds were made of folded sheet metal.
  • A self-documenting workforce is immensely valuable.
    Only if they do it correctly. Though, as an auditor, I do appreciate incompetent people continuing to provide me with job security.
    Not being able to write even HTML, it's going to be pretty rough for you.
    Sure, if an app is based on HTML. If it's not, then your HTML probably won't help you that much.
    The meaning of this word is vastly different in English compared to my automotive vocabulary.
    Ah, specialized fields of knowledge and their associated vocabularies. Brewing is replete with unnecessary words and confusing phraseology.
  • RymRym
    edited March 2010
    Brewing is replete with unnecessary words and confusing phraseology.
    PCI is an ISA, not to be confused with ISA, which PCI replaced. ATA was used until SATA, at which time ATA became PATA, and hardly anyone calls it IDE anymore, though you still have to choose between IDE and AHCI mode.

    ^_~
    Post edited by Rym on
  • Scott, do you use Vimperator? It seems like it fits your whole "Use the keyboard whenever possible" philosophy.
  • So wait, IDE and ATA hard drives are the same thing? No wonder I couldn't find a new IDE drive in any local shops.
  • I guess you're right. I should learn how to do TIG welding and metal fabrication so I can build my own stainless steel conical fermenters.
    Think more like literacy. If someone can only read, and can't write, that's not really great. I don't think that counts as fully literate. From my perspective, if you can read web pages, but can't write them you're only half-literate. If you can use software, but can't write it, you're half-literate.

    Now look at where things are going. Everything is an app. Books are apps. Newspapers are apps. Everything. Not being able to write even HTML, it's going to be pretty rough for you.
    So you by that standard you should program in assembly everything you do, you know, because using a programing language is the same as having the buttons to HTML format for you. But I guess since its your forum, you get to decide that the literacy standards reside on your own limitations.
  • edited March 2010
    PCI is an ISA, not to be confused with ISA, which PCI replaced. ATA was used until SATA, at which time ATA became PATA, and hardly anyone calls it IDE anymore, though you still have to choose between IDE and AHCI mode.

    ^_~
    We have something called a "hot liquor tank." It holds hot water. Why the fuck isn't it called the "hot water tank?" Can somebody explain this to me?
    Post edited by TheWhaleShark on
  • edited March 2010
    So you by that standard you should program in assembly everything you do, you know, because using a programing language is the same as having the buttons to HTML format for you. But I guess since its your forum, you get to decide that the literacy standards reside on your own limitations.
    Just because a carpenter always uses a nail gun and his power screwdriver doesn't mean he doesn't know how to use a manual hammer and screwdriver. I might always use power tools, but I know assembly. I can do it if I have to. Can you?

    Also

    Free Python classes from Google.
    http://code.google.com/edu/languages/google-python-class/
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • Just because a carpenter always uses a nail gun and his power screwdriver doesn't mean he doesn't know how to use a manual hammer and screwdriver. I might always use power tools, but I know assembly. I can do it if I have to. Can you?
    Ahhh, but can you write via machine language instructions by flipping logic gates manually?
  • edited March 2010
    So you by that standard you should program in assembly everything you do, you know, because using a programing language is the same as having the buttons to HTML format for you. But I guess since its your forum, you get to decide that the literacy standards reside on your own limitations.
    Just because a carpenter always uses a nail gun and his power screwdriver doesn't mean he doesn't know how to use a manual hammer and screwdriver. I might always use power tools, but I know assembly. I can do it if I have to. Can you?
    Well, to some its going to be the same, power tools are just shortcuts for people that can't drive a nail straight, but you seem fine with the idea in your case, it seems you are fine when you are on the "illiterate" side but when you are in the carpenter's side, everyone else is just stupid. You expect that people who are not programmers or computer inclined learn the minutia of how things work, but you are not expected to know how to build a car in order to drive one, you don't have to memorize libraries of medical books to go into surgery, etc.
    Post edited by MrRoboto on
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