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GeekNights 070312 - No Internets

edited March 2007 in GeekNights
Tonight on GeekNights there are no news or things of the day. We have no Internet, so we have no idea what is happening in the world, nor have we discovered any new entertaining things to share with you. Bear with us as we tell the story of our recent web withdrawal, and ponder the role of the net in our lives.

Comments

  • How are you posting this then?
  • edited March 2007
    You make it sound like a horror story. And indeed, it probably was is.
    Post edited by Sail on
  • He's in my base, stealing my ethernets.
  • edited March 2007
    So he's all up in your site, downloading your content? Or perhaps down in your motherboard, chomping on your bytes?





    Goddamn. I love that stupid joke to death. I blame Dave and Joel.
    Post edited by Sail on
  • That's ok, I'm at uni using the computers that only have IE. I hate IE and everytime I use these computers I remember why. Case in point, on firefox when I type in frontrowcrew into the address bar it takes me staight to the website. On IE it has to take me to MSN search first, where I have to scroll past the ads to click on it. Why can't it just assume the .com? Why do I have to write it?
  • Why can't it just assume the .com? Why do I have to write it?
    I agree that IE sucks, but I can't say I understand the level of frustration for having to make four more keystrokes. And how about bookmarks or del.icio.us?

    On to the topic of the Monday episode:

    A few months ago I had a similar realization of how dependent I have become of the Internet. It was a very busy period, and I did not have extra time to spend on unforeseen problems. Then four things happened at the same time:
    1. I run out of money on my Visa card account, and had to transfer more money from another account. I use a really practical and cheap Internet only bank.
    2. I was running out of food.
    3. I had run out of money on my prepaid cell phone a few days before, which didn't bother me since I also have an IP phone to call from.
    4. Of course, the Internet connection died.

    Suddenly I had no phone I could use to call my ISP to report the problem or check what was going on. I had no money for food. I could have transferred more money in seconds had either the Internet connection or the cellphone been working, but I could not get the phone to work without getting into my Internet bank first. It was a real catch 22, and it took me three very frustrating days to get out of the mess. It was actually a bit scary. On top of those practical problems I couldn't get my hourly dose of Internet goodness either.

    I have sympathy for your situation!
  • It must be rough growing up post-internets!

    Why when I was in school we had these things called Encyclopedias that we purchased at the grocery store "Hey look mom, the Hi-Ko book just came out!" If I wanted to look something up I went and got the encyclopedia from the bookcase and looked it up. If there was not enough information I went to the library and looked on the micro-fiche.

    The Internet has made for some very lazy people. Rather than learn things many people just learn "where to look" for things.

    "Why should I learn about the Franco-Prussian war when I can just use Wikipedia," is a common question you hear these days. The problem with the approach of using Wikipedia to answer questions and trivia is that you don't truly learn about what happened and why. You may learn that General Pierre Louis Charles de Failly was in charge of the French side at the battle of Beaumont but what do you learn about the general and the reasons for the conflict in the first place?

    Read a book ya damn Internet hippies!
  • Micro-fiche is cool.
  • Anybody want to buy a microfiche machine? I've got one sitting next to my desk that has been used once in the past eight years. I'm not even sure it's in working order. We apparently keep it around "just in case." This week I convinced the GM to get rid of it, and he wants to try to find a buyer.
  • The Internet has made for some very lazy people. Rather than learn things many people just learn "where to look" for things.
    I have absolutely no idea what you mean by that statement. Are you suggesting that the internet has no real information? It's just a place to look where the information comes from? I'm sorry to say but your wrong. The internet is an infinitely more powerful tool to use than the library. Why do you ask? Let's say I want to find information on cellular Mitosis. Ok, not a very hard subject to find information on. But look at how many sources I have available to me. Not only do I have all the online encyclopedias, but I can also find various scientific journal entries on subject as well. I can also look at research paper if I need to look for more recent information. And if that is not enough, I can usually go to the online book stores, like Amazon, if I need to purchase a specific book. Or perhaps I should look up my local library system's database and discover what books they have on the subject. Heck, while I'm at it, I'll look at the other library's database as well. Hmm...the local college might have some reading on it as well so I'll look in their database as well. Speaking of colleges, many of them post lectures and notes online so I might as well check those out.

    So by the time it would take you to find one book using the Dewie decimal system, I have located several reliable resources from the internet. If I need any of the books from the libraries, all it takes is a drive over there to pick it because you can usually reserve books online. I still don't understand what you mean by not learning from information on Wikipedia though.
  • What I am saying is that the Internet has turned the idea of learning from,

    "How can I learn and retain information about this subject"

    TO

    "How can I use a search engine to find information that I will later forget and have to use the same search engine in the future to find it again."

    It's a dangerous move from learning and retaining knowledge to "learning where to look". As we can see from Rym and Scott's weekend of no Internet they were rendered helpless in many situations because they lost the access to information. If they had just learned about things the way the rest of us do (reading movie credits and encyclopedias) than they would have just known this stuff.
  • Are you saying you have an entire map memorized to the inch by just looking at it once? Do you buy a map, use it once, and throw it out? I'm betting you still have a map in your car right now. It's a pretty big generalization to say that NO ONE retains information from the internet. How exactly did you come about this realization?
  • edited March 2007
    No, I do not have a map in my car.

    I have studied the Interstate road system and understand how it works. I know that if I-95 goes through a city and there is a 295 and a 395 I know (because I took the time to learn this) that these will be circular roads that ring the city. 295 will be closer in than 395.

    I also know that even numbered routes are East to West and odd numbers are North to South.

    I do not need to use an Internet mapping service unless I require back roads to get somewhere. Even then, most back roads I visit are only a few roads off of a main road. Because of this I still do not need a map.

    In regards to trivia, yes the Internet is a wonderful tool. If you use the Internet to learn bits and pieces of something because you are too lazy to learn about the full issue than that is bad. It is bad because you become dependant on the tool.

    Why is this bad? Because, unlike a tire iron (which you need to change a tire) the Internet is not a "need" tool.
    Post edited by HMTKSteve on
  • edited March 2007
    So your just saying that you stay in your own little world and you don't travel anywhere outside of you knowledge? How do you know which main roads take you to the correct general area of your destination? Well that's good and well, but Rym and Scott travel all the time to con's and stuff thus they require maps on areas unknown. You still haven't answered my question on how you came to the generalization.
    Post edited by Andrew on
  • Is anyone else hearing weird repeating in the show? Or is that just me?
  • Not just you.

    Steve's just old, don't mind him. He doesn't realize that civilization depends on "not need" tools becoming "need" tools. We need fire, we need electricity, we need water delivery and sewage systems, period. We apparently need guns. Not having these things would set civilization back hundreds or thousands of years. The internet is quickly becoming a "need" tool, if it isn't already. I'm sitting in an office building in a complex with over 10,000 workers, all of whom use the Internet all day, in a company whose entire business would be ruined without the Internet...and our primary line of business has nothing to do with desktop machines, servers, routers, or internet service providing. We make printers and photocopiers.

    Rym, Scott, one or both of you really ought to get a wireless data access plan. With just about any phone, you can tether your computer (Windows, Mac, or Linux) to the phone (USB, Bluetooth, or other) and get internet access wherever you have cell reception. Now, this is dependent on what services your cell provider has in your area, but it's very likely you have access to a 2G network, which is comparable to dial-up speed. Nearer to New York City, you'll certainly have access to a 3G network like HSDPA or EV-DO, which is comparable to Wi-Fi.

    Some specifics:
    - T-Mobile gives you unlimited data with their Sidekick plan for $30. You can add a voice plan for $20 or more, or you can just pay by the minute. The Sidekick is a pretty good convergence device; I myself might have one if not for T-Mobile's spotty reception in Rochester.
    - Cingular offers a 3G network (HSDPA) in major cities, and is rolling out to cities as dinky as Rochester by this summer. I pay $20/month in addition to my minutes ($10/month on a group plan) to get unlimited data. I tether my phone to my laptop to get connectivity in my office independent of my company's draconian network policies. By summer, my connection rate should increase by orders of magnitude as they install a 3G network, with no increase in cost.
    - Verizon has similar data plans. I'm sure every carrier has something similar.

    Even if, unlike me, you don't have a use for it every day, isn't it nice to have? I mean, what else can you get for $20/month? 2/5 of a basic cable TV package? 4 meals at Taco Bell? A World of Warcraft account? Porn? A backup DSL connection when your cable dies? (Hmm).

    By the way, you don't need a data plan to use your cell phone as a backup. You can just pay by the KB. Just be careful, of course.

    I tell you, for guys with a tech podcast, your credentials are sure questionable. Ancient computers from 7 years ago? No backup when the internet goes down? A really slow forum system? (Oh snap!)

    You don't have to be the TWiT guys upgrading your core duo MacBooks to core 2 duo MacBooks, or your 2GB iPods to 3GB. But stop pretending like you're still penniless college students! You both have lucrative jobs!
  • I do have an EV-DO Bluetooth phone from Verizon that is capable of the DUN. However, I haven't bothered to actually set it up yet. It doesn't help that I think I just let the battery on my phone die. At least, I hope that's the problem. It won't turn on. Even if my phone was working today, I don't have unlimited data. I'm pretty sure Verizon charges like $80 for it anyway. Maybe once we get our shit in order, I'll get something like that. It won't happen for a few months at the least.

    Also, I just bought a new laptop, and my computer is just fine. Rym is the Luddite who refuses to buy new technologies.
  • What I am saying is that the Internet has turned the idea of learning from,

    "How can I learn and retain information about this subject"

    TO

    "How can I use a search engine to find information that I will later forget and have to use the same search engine in the future to find it again."

    It's a dangerous move from learning and retaining knowledge to "learning where to look". As we can see from Rym and Scott's weekend of no Internet they were rendered helpless in many situations because they lost the access to information. If they had just learned about things the way the rest of us do (reading movie credits and encyclopedias) than they would have just known this stuff.
    My friend calls this the "martial artists or machine guns?" problem. :) It's a fairly standard issue that seems to pop up again and again in human history.
  • Is anyone else hearing weird repeating in the show? Or is that just me?
    Yep, it's pissing me off.
  • That repeating is probably Rym messing up editing. Blame him.
  • Considering the way in which it has replaced so much hardcopy, is it fair to say that the Internet is the greatest conservation tool ever?
  • Very well. I blame Rym.
  • Very well. I blame Rym.
    That's really the best solution for most problems. The Holocaust? Rym's fault.
  • I remember the first time I went thought internet withdrawal. It was harsh but then again I was back in high school. I had to sell my sness in order to get my first fax modem. Once I sold it I used the money and the money my dad game me in order to buy a 56kb fax modem for Christmas. I finally got the fas modem on the 23 and I father pulled some strings in order for us to get internet. It was a lot of work since my house from Perú only had one phone and it was on the first floor while my computer was on the second. However, by the end of the day we had internet. That 25th was the first time that I experience the internet and I my search of something resembling free games in the internet began ( I basically wanted to play Dragonball Z games :P ) . However, my brother decided to use the internet during the day so the rates were high, also the sound while the modem was connecting to the net was horrible. I lost the internet after 3 months and I did not realized how difficult it was then again it was the summer and my friends were away to another provinces. When I came back to school everything was ok.
  • I judged a public speaking contest today for years 5 to 7 (about 10 to 13 years-old) and so many of them referred to looking things up on the internet. I was sitting there in my old school thinking about how much the world has changed. These kids were born in the 1990s, they've never lived without the internet.

    Part of the contest is that they have to write an impromptu speech in 20 minutes, I was surprised that some of these kids had facts and figures in their impromptu speeches. Then I remembered that when I did this contest we couldn't write a speech and research random things in 20 minutes! If it wasn't in the encyclopedia I'd have to spend my 20 minutes just finding the info. These kids just go, 'hmm...I'm going to talk about the drought, I'll google it and still have time to write and practice my speech'.
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