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Building A Computer

edited August 2010 in Technology
I'm building a gaming computer and I've decided to crowd-source it for advice. My budget is $1500. I'm slowly buying it one item at a time. I've already purchased the Antec 902, the TP-750 and the Asus P7P55D-E Pro My goals are longevity and quality. I know the gpu may seem over the top, but I like to play PC games and I've opted for a poorer cpu in favour of it because I don't do enough CPU intensive tasks to warrant an i7. (Originally, I was thinking of an i7-920 and a Radeon HD 5770)

The Current Build
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Comments

  • edited August 2010
    You could always just buy all the parts Rym bought.
    Post edited by ninjarabbi on
  • edited August 2010
    No, I couldn't. I like to research and learn about the parts and, as i've already said, I'd like a lot of graphics power and not so much cpu power. Also, I already have some of the parts.
    Post edited by Pegu on
  • I think if you're spending the same amount of cash you'd probably be better off with the better processor. Sure you might not need as much power now, but in a few years you might. And graphics cards get cheap very fast so you can always upgrade later if the one you buy now becomes obsolete in a year or 2.
  • I already have the motherboard so getting Rym's CPU is impossible. My current board can support 5 processors that are better than the one I'm looking at so there is plenty of room for upgrades.
  • I understand that you can't get his completely but i still think going for more processor power is a better choice. A processor is usually a lot more expensive to upgrade than a video card. And plus video cards are a lot easier to upgrade.
  • edited August 2010
    I'm confident that it's good enough for my uses. A lot of the specs and benchmarks are similar (sometimes better) to the i7 920. The only big difference I see is no hyperthreading. Also, keep in mind that this is a comparison with the i5 750 and I plan to get the higher clocked i5 750. Also, the next best cpu I can get is $90 more.

    One of the major things that I would like feedback on is the RAM. How much does CAS latency matter? What is an ideal amount? Will 8gb greatly affect performance or should I go for less in favour of something else?
    Post edited by Pegu on
  • Oh ok then its no big deal. I was just being general when I meant processor power is more important.

    From what I've come to understand, Its not that big of a deal and if you have to choose you're better getting more slower RAM than less faster RAM. I don't know if you really need 8 gigs, since 4gb seems to be more of the standard, but hell, you'd probably be ok with 2gb. I think what I would do if I were you is just get 2 2gb sticks and then spend the money saved on a better graphics card. RAM is pretty cheap so if you find out in a while you need more, you can always buy some more, but I doubt you'd have to.
  • I think Rym has 6GB. Rym, how much of it do you actually use? Do you ever think you could use more? Do you even use all of what you have?
  • I think Rym has 6GB. Rym, how much of it do you actually use? Do you ever think you could use more? Do you even use all of what you have?
    Rym is at the beach, but I can tell you my situation.

    I have three computers: desktop(core 2 duo), laptop (i5), and HTPC(i3). All of them have 4G of RAM, and they are all effectively equally fast when doing any sort of normal stuff. I never notice any RAM shortage whatsoever, even when running many apps that are supposedly memory hogs. Even my old core solo laptop is fine for everyday computing with Ubuntu and 2GB of RAM.

    The only bottleneck I have is GPU during 3D games. I have an 8800GT, which is pretty awesome. I can play relatively recent games and crank the graphics all the way to the maximum and get awesome frame rates. The problem is that newer games are starting to lag me. I can still get decent frame rates in modern games, but I can't turn everything up to the max settings like I can on some older ones. I'll probably buy a new card once there is a game I want to play that I can't get a good frame rate on.

    Also I should note that I have solid state in my old and new laptops, and yes it is much faster than a magnetic disk. It's faster to boot and faster to launch programs. It's also faster to save games and load new levels. However, it makes little to no performance difference after an application has launched. It is also very expensive to get one that is of any considerable size. If you go solid state in a desktop you'll probably just put the OS on the SSD and put all your files on a magnetic disc anyway. It's nice, but not necessary. Only do it if you are loaded. Though, I highly recommend SSD for laptops if you can afford it. That is because laptops move around, and even get dropped, and that can be an expensive and troublesome drop with a magnetic disc, even with an accelerometer-based protection system.

    Remember, never store important data on a laptop hard drive. Even if it's SSD, assume it will crash at any moment. Laptop drives are way more unreliable than desktop ones. Only store the OS and applications, and temporary things on there. Store everything else you care about in the cloud, on USB sticks, etc.
  • I had planned to have an ssd at one point but I quickly realized that they were overpriced and wouldn't provide enough benefit to be worth it.
  • I listened to the Geeknights episode on overclocking. You said it was pointless because so many processors were close in price that it would be cheaper to buy the next processor up instead of the overclocking stuff. In my case, where the next thing up is $90 more, would careful overclocking be a good idea?
  • Overclocking is a worse idea now than it was years ago. CPUs are so fucking fast it is totally not worth the risk and effort. Just buy the cheaper one and don't worry about the 200 MHz you're missing.
  • Overclocking is a worse idea now than it was years ago. CPUs are so fucking fast it is totally not worth the risk and effort. Just buy the cheaper one and don't worry about the 200 MHz you're missing.
    Totally. I mean, look at the new i7s. Six cores, each with hyper-threading; That's 12 processes at once.
  • I listened to the Geeknights episode on overclocking. You said it was pointless because so many processors were close in price that it would be cheaper to buy the next processor up instead of the overclocking stuff. In my case, where the next thing up is $90 more, would careful overclocking be a good idea?
    No, because really, what difference is there really between the CPU you have and the one that is $90 more? Your computer will turn on a few milliseconds faster? Your game will get two extra frames per second in some game? Why put your very expensive computer at great risk of breaking and needing to be replaced for no meaningful difference? If you could overclock and make your computer twice as fast, then it might be worth it, but I don't think you can do that.

    If somehow you can really justify that the difference in speed between your CPU and the one that is $90 more is significant and will actually make a very big and noticeable difference in your computing experience, then pay the $90. $90 is a lot less than what you would pay for a computer that melted.
  • edited August 2010
    don't worry about the 200 MHz you're missing.
    You shouldn't bother over-clocking for anything less than .5 gigahertz at the very least.
    I'm contacting a friend of mine who's into this stuff to see what kind of gains can be realistically expected.
    Post edited by Omnutia on
  • edited August 2010
    Also, keep in mind that even if you do get a reasonable speed increase, what will you have to spend in time and money for extra cooling equipment? For the price of a water cooling system, and the trouble of installing it, you could have just gotten a better CPU instead.

    Now that I think of it, if you have a shit ton of money, you can get the fastest CPU available AND water cooling and go above and beyond what is possible. The thing is, a few months after that a faster CPU will be released and it will feel pretty stupid.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • edited August 2010
    Are those all-in-one Dells any good? The ones that look like an older Mac (everything built into the monitor.)

    I'm looking for something with a small footprint, touch screen, and wi-fi that I can mount on a wall in my kitchen. I thought about the iPad (smallest one, don't need storage) but I just can't convince myself to buy another Apple product.

    EDIT: Weird. In the product write up they mention Bluray but no where can you select it as an option when you customize.
    Post edited by HMTKSteve on
  • Blurry? In your kitchen?

    What I'm getting back about OCing:
    Depends on the CPU, 4GHz with Phenom II 965BE, 4GHz Pentium Dual-Core E5300 but only 3.6GHz with the Phenom II 920 etc. :)
    The Pentium he mentioned is 2.4GHz stock and the +1.6 was done with the stock cooler while the Phenom 920 has a stock clock of 2.8 so it get's a 0.6 increase. In short, it's all over the place, so do your homework. Considering that was with the stock cooler, you could later get a decent air cooler (Water cooling seems to be something of a hobby unto itself.) and bump those numbers up.

    Much like learning Ubuntu, it's more a learning process and the pride of creating something that you'll get out of this than financial gain, but if you're looking for something to keep you occupied and learn about this kind of stuff, just make sure you read up on it and it should work out fine.
  • Considering that was with the stock cooler, you could later get a decent air coole
    In my experience the stock coolers, at least with Intel, are extremely good. Most importantly, they are absolutely silent.
  • edited August 2010
    CPU fans, in my experience, usually don't have much trouble. GPU and sometimes case fans send to be the noisiest parts.

    Here's my CPU fan next to a stock cooler, I got one after the old one started rattling. It was the cheapest one Ebuyer had (£17) and now my CPU runs at 35 degrees idle (I'll get a max reading when I run Civ4 later.). I could probably over-clock it quite a bit but haven't really gotten round to it.
    image
    Post edited by Omnutia on
  • Yeah who wants a big scary monstrosity like that when you can have the small efficient guy on the right?
  • Yeah who wants a big scary monstrosity like that when you can have the small efficient guy on the right?
    The same people who put ground effects on their cases.
  • edited August 2010
    Yeah who wants a big scary monstrosity like that when you can have the small efficient guy on the right?
    Improved cooling? Not having it rattling all the time. It actually looks pretty snazzy.

    This was also replacing a Pentium D cooler, not the quietest stock Intel cooler, even without the rattling.
    Post edited by Omnutia on
  • Improved cooling?
    As long as your CPU is running within the specified temperature range, having a lower temperature really isn't going to make any difference. That is, of course, unless you are overclocking, which you shouldn't be.
    Not having it rattling all the time.
    If your stock CPU fan is rattling, then you have a serious problem. The problem is likely that the fan is not installed properly. If it isn't installed properly, it isn't cooling properly. If it's not cooling properly, no wonder you think that the other fan is such an improvement. This could be due to a weird motherboard that makes it difficult to mount the cooler, but more likely it is just user error during installation.

    You really think that looks good? Ok, dude. I mean, my computer has all sorts of crazy colored parts like a blue motherboard, but I didn't pick it because it was blue. That's just the color the parts I wanted happened to be. Regardless, my case is closed, you never see any of those parts, and even if you could see them, nobody looks or cares. That fan you showed there isn't exactly going to win any case mod competitions. If you want to get into case modding, you should check out the BYOPC room at PAX to see what a good looking computer actually looks like.
  • eah who wants a big scary monstrosity like that when you can have the small efficient guy on the right?
    I have that one on the left, keeps my CPU nice and cool so it will provide years of trouble free service.
  • edited August 2010
    I have that one on the left, keeps my CPU nice and cool so it will provide years of trouble free service.
    My CPU also provides years of trouble free service with the stock cooler. A CPU will only have trouble with heat if the temperature goes above or below the specified operating temperatures. This can only really happen if your cpu fan stops working, your case loads with dust, you remove the cooler while it's running, etc. Even in those crazy cases, Intel CPUS (I don't know about AMD) have safety mechanisms that will downclock or even halt the CPU if the heat becomes too great. The lifetime of your CPU will likely not be affected in any way. The stock cooler was specifically designed by Intel to properly cool that CPU silently and efficiently. There is nothing wrong with it. The only reasons to replace the stock cooler are if it breaks (unlikely), if you are overclocking (don't), or if you are case modding as a hobby for reals (go for it).

    You should be more worried about making sure your case has positive pressure, so that dust and heat are pushed out. You should also take the money you spent on the stupid cooler and put it towards a better PSU, if you don't have one already. The most likely things to break in your computer are your hard drives (they will definitely crash) and your PSU. The PSU can take the whole computer down with it, so make sure you get a quality one. Also, make sure you can tell a quality one from one that just appears to be quality. High wattage is not usually necessary, or a sign of the PSU being good. It's just a waste of electricity unless you have a fuckton of drives. 500W is more than enough for almost every computer if you get a good PSU.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • edited August 2010
    You know what, forget it. Reasonable discussions of what works best for each individual isn't something this forum is useful for.
    Post edited by Omnutia on
  • I'm never going to understand why you are so vocal about this cpu cooler thing. Have you ever even looked how hot your cpu gets?
  • edited August 2010
    I'm never going to understand why you are so vocal about this cpu cooler thing. Have you ever even looked how hot your cpu gets?
    Yes, my Core 2 Duo E8400 gets very hot. It is specified to run properly between 5 degrees Celsius and 72.4 degrees Celsius. 72.4 Celsius is fucking hot. My CPU does run hot, like 50 or 60 ish Celsius, but it's less than 72.4C, so it's no problem. There is an alarm set on the CPU to sound if it ever reaches that temperature, and it has never gone off, ever. Not even on a hot day with the AC off. Also, the cooler is perfectly silent, even when gaming. I wish I could say the same for the GPU.

    http://download.intel.com/design/intarch/core2duo/316676.pdf

    You guys are just like the people who are complaining that a program uses too much RAM. Are you running out of RAM? Are you swapping? If not, then it makes no difference whether a program uses 2MB or 100MB of RAM. If you couldn't see the RAM usage in your task manager, you wouldn't even know the difference. Likewise, if you didn't look at the CPU thermometer, you wouldn't know the difference.

    You're spending time and money to make numbers go up and down with no actual effect.

    Go and find the specified operating temperatures for your CPU. Install the stock cooler, properly. Do no overclock or anything. Set an alarm to go off if the CPU goes above the spec temperature. Then play a 3D game with the AC off. Tell me if the alarm goes off.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • Yes, my Core 2 Duo E8400 gets very hot. It is specified to run properly between 5 degrees Celsius and 72.4 degrees Celsius. 72.4 Celsius is fucking hot. My CPU does run hot, like 50 or 60 ish Celsius, but it's less than 72.4C, so it's no problem.
    You see, this is why I have that large cooler. Sure the intel jobby is fine for your dual core, but I have a quad core. Under full load with the dinky intel heatsink I was seeing temps in the upper 60's in AC and that fan was ramping up to the point of making noticable noise.
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