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Endless Space: The game: The thread.

edited May 2012 in Video Games
Just consolidating any endless space discussion into this thread, rather than jamming up any other threads with various natters. Questions, comments, screenshots, fluff, bugs, etc, etc etc.
Post edited by Churba on
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  • I'll just share my first experience.

    The first setup phase for the game is a little confusing. There are a lot of toggles. Relative value of racials isn't totally clear at that point. I set the difficulty to "newbie" and otherwise only examined the features.

    Once I was in-game the tutorial windows were a little incredibly tedious, but I worked through them over time. Obviously a video overview would be slightly preferable to just dropping a bunch of text on you. I saw that one of the recommended guides for the game is a literal save file you load and then play-through to win. I think the game at release would benefit immensely from copying that and having a tutorial mode with voice that just walks you through an entire game start to finish in a predictable way.

    As I mentioned in the other thread, the game was actually broken for me initially. Right clicking to move fleets did not function. After restarting my computer (might have been fixed with just the game) that fixed the issue and I could do the same exact things I was trying to do before-hand that did not work.

    I managed to handle all the other parts (build queue, colonize first system, research queue, couldn't afford to hire a leader yet). I probably screwed this up majorly at first, but I at least took the actions. I also screwed around with my taxes for more productivity, and I'm not sure if that was a good or bad idea.

    My scout explored most of the map while I was busy trying to get my first colony ship off the ground. I sent it to a "nice" system that was local to me. Pirates killed my colony ship. On the newbie setting. Well, if that's what it takes... I'll build a couple of the light defender ships to patrol systems. I also hired my first leader and had him help my main system.

    I researched the thing that unlocks the mushrooms bonus, then arctics/ice-world colonization. I took a system with four cold worlds. It looked like a good system (ancient artifacts, other random bonuses). To make a long story short, I colonized all four worlds and they stayed at 4 total population forever because they hated living on an ice world and they couldn't make enough food. I fixed this, around turn 100, when I finally moved my leader to the new system. He gave enough morale and food bonuses to save that system... but it was already too late.

    Losing my first colony ship slowed me down quite a bit. I had to produce a lot of fleets to deal with constant pirates. I managed to take most of the nearby systems, and my only neighbor was peaceful, but bigger than me. I proceeded to dick around down the tech tree and try to salvage my game as much as possible. Eventually a player was eliminated.

    The AI was annoying. They were clearly ahead of me, but they absolutely would-not attack. They just wanted to blockade my systems at random. I'm sure they had a bajillion techs at this point as well, as I was failing miserably to try to keep up with essentially just my two home-worlds till much later in the game.

    It'll be interesting to try again. I know one of my biggest problems was that my economy was just fucked. Apparently playing as the terrans, I needed to actually focus differently. And I need to realize how rediculously important those leaders are (30% bonuses to a thing are massive obviously, but in MOO2 I was used to it just being a boon, not a deciding factor in my ability to move forward with the game).
  • As I mentioned in the other thread, the game was actually broken for me initially. Right clicking to move fleets did not function. After restarting my computer (might have been fixed with just the game) that fixed the issue and I could do the same exact things I was trying to do before-hand that did not work.
    There's worse bugs in the alpha at the moment. Like not being able to travel to your own star system no matter what you try, to the point where ships will ACTIVELY PATH AROUND the star system even if doing so would take 8 turns longer. Enemies sometimes also get randomly stuck on a system without any way of attacking them (even though you're at fucking war with the cunts).
    Pirates killed my colony ship. On the newbie setting.
    What does difficulty setting have to do with utter retardation? You can trivially lead with your scout ship to take out any silly pirates that are roaming about at the start, especially on the newbie setting. They're dumb pirates, not braindead pirates, of course they are going to attack you, and of course they will beat you when you send a ship to them that has no defences or weapons.
    I researched the thing that unlocks the mushrooms bonus, then arctics/ice-world colonization. I took a system with four cold worlds. It looked like a good system (ancient artifacts, other random bonuses). To make a long story short, I colonized all four worlds and they stayed at 4 total population forever because they hated living on an ice world and they couldn't make enough food. I fixed this, around turn 100, when I finally moved my leader to the new system. He gave enough morale and food bonuses to save that system... but it was already too late.
    Exploit the planet with food production. At least now when you colonize a new star system you get a base that provides +2 food and +2 industry, meaning you won't instantly starve to death as was the case before. Starving's also not instantaneous anymore, thankfully. By turn 100 you should easily have colonized several systems and have them sustain themselves.
    I had to produce a lot of fleets to deal with constant pirates.
    Constant pirates? Man, your luck must've been atrocious. Pirates are an annoyance, not a threat unless you severely underestimate them and send but a single dreadnought against their 16 kinetics boats.
    The AI was annoying. They were clearly ahead of me, but they absolutely would-not attack. They just wanted to blockade my systems at random. I'm sure they had a bajillion techs at this point as well, as I was failing miserably to try to keep up with essentially just my two home-worlds till much later in the game.
    I think that's part due to alpha, and the difficulty setting, and the race that was your neighbour. The AI will probably be improved over time, if not, it's a 4x multiplayer game, who cares about AI once the multiplayer component is rolled out.
    It'll be interesting to try again. I know one of my biggest problems was that my economy was just fucked. Apparently playing as the terrans, I needed to actually focus differently. And I need to realize how rediculously important those leaders are (30% bonuses to a thing are massive obviously, but in MOO2 I was used to it just being a boon, not a deciding factor in my ability to move forward with the game).
    Don't play Terrans. They start with a guaranteed NEGATIVE anomaly on their homesystem. The leaders have quite some importance, but +30% to a FIDS isn't all that useful if your system is only producing 4 food and 2 industry. You want flat bonus for colonizing, percentage bonus for highly developed systems producing a lot of !!SCIENCE!! or dust.

    My first experience with the game was with the "YOU CANNOT MAKE PEACE WITH ANYONE EVER FOR ANY REASON BECAUSE YOU ARE AN OVERSIZED, UGLY HIVEMIND WITH VERY FEW INDIVIDUALS ALLOWED TO THINK"-Cravers, and even that experience was insanely better than what you describe. Got 100 turns in before update and haven't bothered to move the save files.
  • edited May 2012
    I didn't know there were pirates in the game, and I had scouted the system that I sent my first (new) c-ship to. My very first c-ship was landed on a planet in my home system because that was always the sensible thing to do in MOO. But by the time I had the research and sent the new c-ship there were apparently pirates camping the neighbor system... a system which was (as far as the little galactic highways go) only connected to my home star.

    As for landing on systems with +food, that would have been great but that system with the ancient artifacts specifically had all cold planets. And I didn't know how to get my food production up at that point.

    Pirates only sent 2 ships at a time, but I had to keep ~3 ships in each system to keep killing them off without taking too much damage.

    Also, the one time I actually tried to control the battle I couldn't figure out how to select any of my combat options. Could have been a bug or incompetence, either way I switched to just auto-battling which gave me more predictable results.
    Post edited by Anthony Heman on
  • My very first c-ship was landed on a planet in my home system because that was always the sensible thing to do in MOO.
    I never did that. I would always send the scouts out, and then use the colony ship on the first good looking planet. I always used colony bases for planets in systems I already occupied.
  • If you had a rich in-system planet, always always always colonize that first and move workers over there as soon as you have a freighter fleet. Also, unless it's a really small multi-player game, demolish your star base and build an automated factory in turn 1. :P

    I know that game.
  • I didn't know there were pirates in the game, and I had scouted the system that I sent my first (new) c-ship to. My very first c-ship was landed on a planet in my home system because that was always the sensible thing to do in MOO. But by the time I had the research and sent the new c-ship there were apparently pirates camping the neighbor system... a system which was (as far as the little galactic highways go) only connected to my home star.
    That explains. You went in completely blind without any up-to-date information. Never send your colony ships into a dark abyss. That's just stupid. I'm assuming it would also be stupid in MoO. Stop doing something that stupid, at least have the small bit of knowledge that the previous turn it was clear.
    As for landing on systems with +food, that would have been great but that system with the ancient artifacts specifically had all cold planets. And I didn't know how to get my food production up at that point.
    That's what system improvements are for. I skimmed through most of the tutorial as well, resulting in Churba pointing out that answers to some of my questions to him were in there, and even I got that much out of it. The game is pretty straight forward and clear in that regard. Colour coded, clear and concise explanations on tooltips, and all the time in the world since it's turn-based.
    Pirates only sent 2 ships at a time, but I had to keep ~3 ships in each system to keep killing them off without taking too much damage.
    Dear lord, that's fucking overkill. Put your response fleet in a strategic position and move them towards whatever system the pirates are attacking and punch them in the face. Having an entire fleet on every fucking star system is insane. It's not going to kill you if one of your systems is blockaded for a turn either. That just prevents trade and luxury/strategic resource availability.
    Also, the one time I actually tried to control the battle I couldn't figure out how to select any of my combat options. Could have been a bug or incompetence, either way I switched to just auto-battling which gave me more predictable results.
    Tremendous incompetence. Again, tutorial. Though I will give it to you that reading that thing will fuck your first fight because combat being in real time and it not being paused while the tutorial is open. This isn't a problem for any of the other tutorial messages, because it's mostly turn-based, so you have all the time in the world to read the things. The one for combat should just pop up before combat actually starts, and give you all the time in the world to read it.

    To explain how combat works: PRESS GREY QUESTION MARK BUTTON, PRESS COMBAT CARD OF CHOICE, ???, PROFIT! Or anal rape if you get out-picked. But at least you still got some lube in that case compared to picking nothing at all.
  • If you had a rich in-system planet, always always always colonize that first and move workers over there as soon as you have a freighter fleet. Also, unless it's a really small multi-player game, demolish your star base and build an automated factory in turn 1. :P

    I know that game.
    That's a good plan! Only I pick psilon, and I'm pretty sure they have to research automated factory first, which can take a few turns.
  • To explain how combat works: PRESS GREY QUESTION MARK BUTTON, PRESS COMBAT CARD OF CHOICE, ???, PROFIT! Or anal rape if you get out-picked. But at least you still got some lube in that case compared to picking nothing at all.
    I either didn't see the grey question mark, or when I clicked on the card it wasn't doing anything...
  • That's a good plan! Only I pick psilon, and I'm pretty sure they have to research automated factory first, which can take a few turns.
    I've been playing the Good Old Games version for a while, and it's patched up to add a new starting galaxy type (cluster, as many stars as huge, map size of large) and a new starting tech level (post-warp, less random than advanced, but all of the tech for 250 or less is already researched for everyone). I play that on impossible, average galaxy age, all the toggles on, with initiative. Obviously the game changes massively by altering just a few pieces of that puzzle.
  • If you had a rich in-system planet, always always always colonize that first and move workers over there as soon as you have a freighter fleet. Also, unless it's a really small multi-player game, demolish your star base and build an automated factory in turn 1. :P

    I know that game.
    That's a good plan! Only I pick psilon, and I'm pretty sure they have to research automated factory first, which can take a few turns.
    Did anyone ever play Moo as anything other then the Psilons or a custom race that had the same science based trait?

  • edited May 2012
    Yes. Generally research-focused builds or diplomatic builds favor new players and lower difficulties. In multi-player especially the generic build is Unification/Something That Increases Max Population/Repulsive/X/Y.

    http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Master_of_Orion_II/Some_effective_race_designs#Production_versus_research_races

    That's not necessarily perfect, but it's much better than the Game FAQs guides that favor research strategies.


    On the settings I'm running right now (8 players, Cluster, Average, Post-Warp, Impossible), my best race seems to be something like Repulsive/Unification/Subterranean/+100% Population Growth/-10 Ground Combat. I focus on getting 3-5 good systems, hopefully a couple rich worlds, and go for research labs on every planet as my only research. First techs cloning center or soil enrichment (start researching cloning, switch if it looks like I need more base farming), then get MIRV merculite missiles, then focus on getting the next couple steps towards auto-labs. If I live long enough to research auto-labs or build emissions guidance destroyer missile-boats to kill the guardian or take all the good nearby monster-planets, I've won. But it often goes against me since it's easy to get unlucky.

    One of the biggest things the multi-player community worked on fixing was the random map generator. A lot of people find it's too random, you can get boxed in with worse systems, or someone can get a free (no guardian monster) ultra-rich system... at which point the game swings on the map. I think the general consensus is that if you take the outliers off the table unless guarded (ultra-rich and gaia) and make all stars generate as orange ones do, then it works out a little better.

    Also everyone hates the Orion guardian giving such advanced tech for free, especially when everyone's figured out that emissions guidance + MIRV + Merculite Missiles pretty much slaughter it... supposing you can throw the 12-14 destroyers it takes. Then bam, massive tech advantage over all other players...

    Also, if you play creative, you don't get as much of an advantage off spying... which is fairly important.
    Post edited by Anthony Heman on
  • edited May 2012
    Did anyone ever play Moo as anything other then the Psilons or a custom race that had the same science based trait?
    Trilarians had a research boost, trans-dimensionality, and omniscience. They were a fucking powerhouse if you were playing an aggro tech game.

    You could power-level your war techs before the other races (save the Psilons, who were inclined towards an alliance anyway) and then use trans-dimensional travel to get a fleet to other systems lightning fast and commit genocide before other races were barely off the ground. You'd always know the location and status of the other empires (and obstacles) due to omniscience, and you could just cut a path around Space Monsters and empires you wanted to stay friendly with.

    I started playing MoO2 a lot later than everyone else (punk kid, didn't grow up with hardcore peecee gaemen), but I played a lot of it when I got it a few years back, and I only ever beat the game with the Trilarians or a Trilarian-based custom build.
    Post edited by WindUpBird on
  • I think I might spring for the GOG version of MoO2 so that I can just give the installer to anyone I want to play it with. Right now I'm using an ISO rip of the CD I bought, along with a batch file to make it run in Windows 7; I could do the same thing with that, but configuring the game and installing Daemon Tools and the like for anyone I want to play MoO with is a pain in the ass.
  • This is the moo strategy guide I think I was looking for:

    http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005/03/master-of-orion-ii-strategy-guide.html
    I will read this. I have been playing for years, and I still suck.

    I have the same problem as I do in lots of RTS games. I spend everything on research, production, and expansion, and nothing on ships. Even with lots of production it takes like, a zillion turns to make one ship! In that time I could build all these buildings and research all this stuff, and then make a better ship in half the time. I end up not wanting to build ships until I have every tech there is and the planet building the ships is fully upgraded. How do you decide when to stop upgrading and build ships?

    Also, how do you know how to design ships? Is a merculite missile better than a proton torpedo? I have no clue! If I look at the numbers I can figure it out and build the best possible ship at my current tech level. Great. How do I know if that is sufficient to beat a space monster? If the other guy is sending 5 battleships to attack me, how do I know how many ships with what equipment are necessary to beat that? I like how in Eclipse this kind of thing is abstracted, and is not hidden information, so you can easily tell what you are getting into with combat.

    Wish there was a 4X vidja game with same rules as Eclipse.
  • Dear lord, that's fucking overkill. Put your response fleet in a strategic position and move them towards whatever system the pirates are attacking and punch them in the face. Having an entire fleet on every fucking star system is insane. It's not going to kill you if one of your systems is blockaded for a turn either. That just prevents trade and luxury/strategic resource availability.
    There's no kill like overkill, says the guy pumping out 15,000+ millitary power fleets...as the peaceful Sophons. I speak softly, but I carry quite a stick.
    I either didn't see the grey question mark, or when I clicked on the card it wasn't doing anything...
    Top left. And make sure you've gone through your options menu and set your display options appropriately, it doesn't auto-set yet.
    Also, how do you know how to design ships? Is a merculite missile better than a proton torpedo? I have no clue! If I look at the numbers I can figure it out and build the best possible ship at my current tech level. Great. How do I know if that is sufficient to beat a space monster? If the other guy is sending 5 battleships to attack me, how do I know how many ships with what equipment are necessary to beat that? I like how in Eclipse this kind of thing is abstracted, and is not hidden information, so you can easily tell what you are getting into with combat.
    It's not exactly the same, but that certainly resembles ES more than a little. At least, once you get used to it, it can be a little wonky at the moment, as we've observed.

  • Also, Two new races have been announced in the past two weeks - The Amoeba and the Sowers.
  • Also, Two new races have been announced in the past two weeks - The Amoeba and the Sowers.
    Any game that gives me the choice of BEING space amoeba, I'm taking that option.
  • Also, Two new races have been announced in the past two weeks - The Amoeba and the Sowers.
    I looked at the Sowers and said "Just fucking take my money" aloud to no one in particular.

    Gonna buy this game now for sure.

  • edited May 2012
    True that. By the sound of them from the devs, I'll probably take them up as my primary race, when I have the option, though admittedly, I am a big fan of the Sophons.

    I should explain the combat/shipbuilding a little beyond the cards. When ship-building, you have exactly what you expect - Different frames, upon which you place weapons, defenses and the like, with some frames having unique abilities, like longer range sensors on scout ships and planet-seeders on colony ships. You have default weapons and defenses, which are improved by going up the right tech tree.

    It gets a little more complex once you do, though - you have three basic weapon types - Kinetic(big guns, essentially), Lasers, and Missiles. Each have their own sub-tree in the weapons tree. You also have three defense types, Hull plating, Shields and Flak. Different weapons have different advantages - one might have GREAT damage, but lower accuracy, and they require a particular resource like Hexaferrum or Titanium-70, which you can only find on some planets. You also have accessories that produce various effects, like increasing weapon power, increasing shield/hull effectiveness, and increasing invasion power - since your ability to invade/blockade systems and take over planets isn't governed by your ship or fleet military power alone. You also have to balance all this against tonnage, too, as expected.

    Now, your enemy tends to field particular types of weapons, and you tend to find it out quickly upon encountering them in combat, and adapt for it - but so do they. You can retrofit and rebuild fleets that are near your systems. There are - at this moment - no space monsters other than the pirates, who you can adapt to like any other enemy force, and whom adapt to you. You can guess roughly by their fleet size and the ships they tend to field in fleets, especially if you've faced them in combat before.

    Ideally, you want to balance it appropriately for who you're facing off with. Sure, you're not getting QUITE as much info as eclipse, but you're getting no more or less than anyone else.

    You get a reading of military power and fleet composition right before you go into combat, and coming very soon will be the ability to retreat from combat - at the moment, you're locked in till death or victory, which is a little annoying.
    I looked at the Sowers and said "Just fucking take my money" aloud to no one in particular.

    Gonna buy this game now for sure.

    They still have at least one more race to announce, too.
    Post edited by Churba on
  • edited May 2012
    ROBUTTS! IMMA BE ROBUTT. I WILL MAKE THIS PLANIT HABUTTABLE FOR ENDLESS. YOU MAKE BAD DISH, CRAVER!
    I looked at the Sowers and said "Just fucking take my money" aloud to no one in particular.

    Gonna buy this game now for sure.
    If you do it now, sign up for the website and redeem your CD key thing you can start voting for things. It's pretty boss.
    Post edited by Not nine on
  • Game 2: Doing fine, generally having to fight pretty hard just to stay a little ahead... on newbie difficulty still. That said, godamn ai apparently won while I was leasurely mopping up his ships via the (unknown to me) 300,000 dust victory...

    Also I apparently suck at managing my planets, but so does the ai you can turn on... mine just kept converting planets from arctic to desert and back...
  • Game 2: Doing fine, generally having to fight pretty hard just to stay a little ahead... on newbie difficulty still. That said, godamn ai apparently won while I was leisurely mopping up his ships via the (unknown to me) 300,000 dust victory...

    Also I apparently suck at managing my planets, but so does the ai you can turn on... mine just kept converting planets from arctic to desert and back...
    If the systems I've taken over are any indication, the AI of the other races isn't fantastic at it yet either - I've never seen them build anything but dust exploitations, or just keep switching worlds with terraforming. I have NO idea why.

  • I know why. They've got an alpha and the AI is only finished for the first 50 or so turns. Still gotta improve them.
  • I know why. They've got an alpha and the AI is only finished for the first 50 or so turns. Still gotta improve them.
    Duh, but it's an obvious oversight. I assume the ai looks at each of those upgrades, thinks they are awesome because hey +x, and just keeps doing it because it doesn't factor in the -x.
  • Possossossobly. Either way, go vote for Sowers Logo Design A you twats.
  • I can't play this until after finals (and maybe not until I get home), but I'm thinking of buying it right now just so I can vote. Also, I'm fucking hemorrhaging money due to game sales lately. :S
  • I went over to a friends house today while my car was being worked on... he was playing MOO2 on tutor. God that's a silly game. The ai would trade any tech he wanted for any tech he had. He was turn ~360, and still using the default ship designs.
  • Finished my third game today. Played as the empire. It gave me the "economic" victory dialogue at the win... is that money accrued? Because I was nowhere near that in total cash. Also while I had eliminated one (very weak) faction and was working on a second, and I was in a non-agression state with the 3rd (sophons), the fifth faction in my game was apparently pretty powerful but I had yet to encounter any of them.

    Also the AI doesn't seem that interested in trading techs... which I guess is a good thing... but they were totally fine giving me any resource it seemed.
  • Finished my third game today. Played as the empire. It gave me the "economic" victory dialogue at the win... is that money accrued? Because I was nowhere near that in total cash. Also while I had eliminated one (very weak) faction and was working on a second, and I was in a non-agression state with the 3rd (sophons), the fifth faction in my game was apparently pretty powerful but I had yet to encounter any of them.

    Also the AI doesn't seem that interested in trading techs... which I guess is a good thing... but they were totally fine giving me any resource it seemed.
    Trading is currently somewhat buggy. There have been times when I could trade with my worst enemies, but not my best mates, and other times where I've not been able to trade with anyone, and other times where it worked as expected, and times when nobody would trade with me EVER.
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