GeekNights Thursday - Umbrellas

MrPeriod

Tonight on GeekNights we talk about umbrellas and comedy "genre" movies. Scott is an old man who cares a lot about garlic. July was the hottest July ever. Tmobile and Sprint have "unlimited" data plans that kind of suck. Naked Trump Statues allow the tightest shade ever thrown by a city official.

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Andrew

belkalra

On Comedy movies from 2000-Now that hold up:
Strictly Comedy:
Zoolander(2001):
Strong performances handed in by Ben Stiller, Owen Wilson and Will Ferrill to the surprise of quite possibly everyone involved.
Most Memorible Quote:
"Anyone can die in a freak gasoline fight accident"

Eurotrip(2006):
mild xenophobia, contains a few of the most solid gags I've seen in my life
Most Memorable Quote:
"Mi Scusi"

Grandma's Boy(2006):
Bizarre niche stoner comedy that holds up surprisingly well. filled with people you've never heard of and went almost exactly nowhere, 2006 was a surprisingly good year for careers to go absolutely nowhere
Most Memorable Quote:
"From you, Dante"

The Other Guys(2010):
You could make a case that this is an action movie first, but I feel like the fact that it plays a great deal of the movie incredibly straight faced enhances the absurdity inherent in the movie. Another shockingly good performance from WIll Ferrill, along with some solid work from Mark Wahlberg being entirely insufferable(method actor, that one is)
Most Memorable Quote:
The entire tuna exchange

Action Comedy:
Zombieland(2009):
definitely blurs the line between the two, but too many of the story beats rely on genuine engagement for this to really work as a comedy.
Most Memorable Quote:
" I've been watching you since I was like... Since I could masturbate. I mean, not that they're connected."

Scott Pilgrim vs. the world(2010):
more action with snappy dialog than a true comedy movie, the absurdist nature of the movie knocks it firmly out of the "Action Movie with Snappy Dialog" camp. Has a fairly strong emotional core to boot.
Most Memorable Quote:
"Scott earned the power of Self-Respect"

Comedy hasn't gone anywhere. Despite that SNL has remarkably less talent than it used to and canned routines are much less common, Comedy as a genre is still alive and well. Yes, traditional comedy movies have died down. However, most genres have started to blend together. The number of pure comedy movies has declined, but so has the number of pure romance movies or pure action movies.

The reason you see less good comedy is because you are ignoring the fact that it has adapted to modern times. I'd put some of the recent video content from cracked against any era of SNL's material and even you guys liberally pulled from college humor during the 00s. Vine alone has created an entire platform where the 5 second movies format can flourish. Comedy is a sin wave, it's just that for some reason you ignore portion along the Z-axis.

PS: Holy Grail is alive and well among the younger fandom; off the top of my head, the off-broadway run of Spamalot was a huge boon to it's visibility.

Apreche

@belkara

All the movies you just mentioned are trash, except Scott Pilgrim, which isn't a comedy.

MATATAT

Key and Peele do have a movie. It's called Keanu. It has a 76% on rotten tomatoes.

As far as good comedies that still hold up I think Superbad is still up there. 21 Jump Street is still weirdly solid. Team America has some good stuff (although Book of Mormon is leagues better, yet not a movie). I still like Step Brothers even though I know a lot of people don't. I still like the Big Lebowski a lot and Hail Ceaser is pretty good. O Brother Where Art Though is good. Burn After Reading has some good stuff. Turns out I like a lot of Coen brothers comedies in retrospect. I could keep going on for a while. The problem with a lot of comedies is that they're not consistently funny. But honesty that's pretty hard to sustain over an hour and a half or more.

im just gonna add more...
Me, Myself, and Irene
Wayne's World
Austin Powers
Zootopia

That's really all I can think of right now. I still like Spaceballs but I tried to go back to it recently and it's hard to watch.

chaosof99

Axel

I thought about this video during this episode.

DK1105

I can confirm Rym's story about umbrellas in Michigan. From what I can tell I live less than a few miles from where Rym grew up based from random stories told on the show and I can't think of the last time I have seen someone with one. At the most there is one you leave in your car and never use. The standard operating procedure is to run for it or just walk and not care.

Rym

belkalra said:

The reason you see less good comedy is because you are ignoring the fact that it has adapted to modern times. I'd put some of the recent video content from cracked against any era of SNL's material and even you guys liberally pulled from college humor during the 00s. Vine alone has created an entire platform where the 5 second movies format can flourish. Comedy is a sin wave, it's just that for some reason you ignore portion along the Z-axis.

You mean Scott ignores it.

In regard to the comedy-as-exclusive-genre movies that we were mostly talking about, Scott also hates all of them, or will tell you why each one isn't actually comedy-as-exclusive-genre.

As for those old SNL skits were only funny in an era before better comedy existed: they almost invariably don't hold up to even B-tier Internet nonsense. I have no rose-tinted glasses for SNL or most comedy television from the 70s-90s.

Apreche

MATATAT said:

Key and Peele do have a movie. It's called Keanu. It has a 76% on rotten tomatoes.

As far as good comedies that still hold up I think Superbad is still up there. 21 Jump Street is still weirdly solid. Team America has some good stuff (although Book of Mormon is leagues better, yet not a movie). I still like Step Brothers even though I know a lot of people don't. I still like the Big Lebowski a lot and Hail Ceaser is pretty good. O Brother Where Art Though is good. Burn After Reading has some good stuff. Turns out I like a lot of Coen brothers comedies in retrospect. I could keep going on for a while. The problem with a lot of comedies is that they're not consistently funny. But honesty that's pretty hard to sustain over an hour and a half or more.

im just gonna add more...
Me, Myself, and Irene
Wayne's World
Austin Powers
Zootopia

That's really all I can think of right now. I still like Spaceballs but I tried to go back to it recently and it's hard to watch.

Superbad was so bad I had to stop watching it. There aren't many movies I can say that about. I actually can't specifically recall a single other example.

Book of Mormon IS a fantastic comedy! Definitely the hardest I've laughed at a media in years. While not a movie, it could easily become one. Film adaptations of musicals actually have a long history of being fantastic. King & I, The Music Man, Fiddler, Cabaret, Chicago, etc.

Big Lebowski is overrated. O Brother is fantastic, but not just a comedy. Wayne's World and Austin Powers do NOT hold up, good god. They can stay right back there with the old Adam Sandler albums for my teenage self to enjoy.

I think another major problem is that the styles of comedy that are in vogue lately are not a style I find funny. I've said this before, but the type where there are really uncomfortable characters like John Goodman in Big Lebowski, or the digusting kid in Superbad, are not funny. They just fill me with rage, disgust, annoyance, etc. People being shitty human beings is not funny!

The humor I like the most is the kind where a comedian with a razor sharp whit delivers clever dialog. The George Carlins and the Groucho Marxes. I also really enjoy the slapstick where the comedian has incredible control of their body, like the Buster Keatons and the Monty Python Silly Walks. These are out of fashion these days.

Rym

So you like old, blunt comedy.

Coldguy

Rym said:

So you like old, blunt comedy.

Actually let's not do insults, say Scott what do you consider good to great comedies?

Matt

The only Bizmark you need to know.

Apreche

Matt said:

The only Bizmark you need to know.

His throat so clear.

Matt

I'm very skeptical that there are less comedies coming out these days. You may not like them as much as the 80s and 90s stuff, but I doubt they are lesser in quantity. Even the question of "who are the comedians who are doing these movies post-2000?" is easily answerable. You did get the Edgar Wright crowd, but earlier in the timeframe was the wave of all the Will Ferrell and friends movies, followed then by the Judd Apatow, Seth Rogen and friends movies.

Movies post-200 to reconsider:
Team America (2004)
Super Troopers (2001)
Step Brothers (2008)
Idiocracy (2006)
Bad Santa (2003)
Wet Hot American Summer (2001)
Black Dynamite (2009)
I Love You, Man (2009)
Forgetting Sarah Marshall (2008)
Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story (2007) - only for the performance of Tim Meadows
Elf (2003)
Mean Girls (2004)
Frances Ha (2012)
All of Wes Anderson's stuff
Bridesmaids (2011)
O Brother Where Art Thou (2000)
Juno (2007)
Pitch Perfect (2012)
The Muppets (2011)

Add in ones you mentioned, plus ones others have mentioned, and that's a pretty big list. These are all movies that made me laugh. Most won't hold up and become classics, but I'm sure some will. Also, the past 5 years have been very weak, I will give you that, but I also haven't seen the majority of them. They look so bad that I can tell they aren't worth my time, but they are still numerous. I will second Rym's review of Ghostbusters, though.

Apreche

Black Dynamite is ok, but it drags way out in the end. Everything else in the list is either not a comedy or not good.

Also, I never heard of "Frances Ha," "Forgetting Sarah Marshdall," or "Walk Hard."

Rym

Rym said:

Scott also hates all of them, or will tell you why each one isn't actually comedy-as-exclusive-genre.

Apreche said:

Everything else in the list is either not a comedy or not good.

And so it was predicted, and so it came to pass.

Naoza

This is bringing back memories of the inanity of my 101 philosophy class. Where we debated whether something was or wasn't a cup if it wasn't created with the intention of being a cup. I'll say the same thing here as I did there.

If it makes you laugh it can be compared to things that were created with the intent of doing so, even if it wasn't. Scott is being a purist and not pragmatic.

Rym

Anything upon which an intent to be a cup is ascribed, which fails to perform as a cup, can accurately be described as a poor or failed cup.

All things can be accurately described as poor or failed versions of things that they are not.

Matt

Little Miss Sunshine. Great movie. Comedy?

Naoza

Ah yes, but what about a ceramic bowl, or sometimes called a wide rimmed handle-less cup. That's no more far-fetched than "advanced crackers".

Keeping it to comedy: I'd argue the funnier bits of like, Ironman make it a comedy. Maybe not a good one, but able to be judged as one.

Naoza

Rym said:

All things can be accurately described as poor or failed versions of things that they are not.

Even this doesn't work. I'll argue the subject of mathematics cannot be described a poor or failed version of a cup. Nor can the entire universe, nor can the philosophical "me" that represents who I am, separate from the parts that make me up.

no fun girl

I'm with Scott that most of those comedies are crap, but not on the purism. Then again, I whole heartedly subscribe to Kafka and absurdism, so that tells you where I'm coming from. I doubt that "pure comedy" can be well done in long form without incorporating features of other genres and other story telling techniques (drama, tension, action), especially since comedy tends to play off those tropes and expectations. Purity of genre is a ridiculous idea, up there with objective reviews. O Brother WAT, Men Who Stare at Goats (I know it's not Coen, but Clooney makes it feel it), Hot Fuzz, Shaun of the Dead (Coen B, Edgar W check, I like most of their work) are great. Django Unchained killed me, as did Inglorious Basterds and I'm not usually big on Tarantino. I also like some mockumentary, like Best in Show and What We Do in the Shadows. New Zealand horror comedy is pretty hilarious.

Apreche

I'm not a purist. All I'm saying is that even the most serious movies I have ever seen have some degree of humor in them. The most serious and non-corny horror and action movies still have someone with some funny lines or moments to lighten the mood.

The same goes in reverse. Even something that is clearly a comedy will still have moments of horror, drama, etc. There is no such thing as purity of genre. Any story of significant size will have every genre creep in at least a little bit.

Regardless, any movie will still have one genre that prevails over all others. One emotion it will attempt to invoke in the audience more than any other. That is what you use to categorize the film.

"O Brother, Where Art Thou?" has much comedy in it to be sure. But even moreso than comedy, it's a thrilling adventure. Imagine a roller coaster with a clown theme. Despite appearances, it is still actually a roller coaster, not a fun house.

I see a lot of children's animated movies being listed as comedies. For sure, almost all of them contain a great deal of comedy. None moreso than one of my favorites, Aladdin. But even the inclusion of Robin Williams does not put Aladdin in the comedy genre. If the genie was the main character and had the screen time control from beginning to end, then yes, you could argue that. Too bad the genie is just a supporting character. As the movie goes on, the frequency (and quality) of his jokes quickly decrease to nil. He even gets all serious at the end. The other children's movies I see mentioned have a similar pattern. They are not comedies.

Now take any Monty Python movie. They are just non-stop jokes. Jokes at the beginning. Jokes in the middle. Jokes at the end. Even the credit sequences are jokes! The jokes were funny when the movies were new. They were funny when I saw them for the first time so many years after the movies came out. They are still funny today. That's a fuckin' comedy.

MATATAT

The weird thing about Book of Mormon I didn't consider until I saw an interview after the fact is that Trey Parker was still tweaking the jokes after audiences had already seen it. Seeing what sticks and what doesn't. It's interesting that the medium allows for "updates" in a way that a movie doesn't let you (well maybe a directors cut sort of).

Apreche

MATATAT said:

The weird thing about Book of Mormon I didn't consider until I saw an interview after the fact is that Trey Parker was still tweaking the jokes after audiences had already seen it. Seeing what sticks and what doesn't. It's interesting that the medium allows for "updates" in a way that a movie doesn't let you (well maybe a directors cut sort of).

When I saw it there were some jokes that weren't timeless. Specifically I remember some Lion King jokes. If Lion King ends its run on Broadway, they might have to swap those out.

Naoza

And yet the question: "Which is a better comedy, Ironman 2 or Talledega Nights?" still has meaning and an answer. Subjective though it may be. Just because one was created with the intent of being a comedy and the other wasn't which one has more elements of a good comedy is a serious question, which jokes hit harder and last longer are valid criteria to judge them on.

I imagine your purist answer is: Ironman 2 isn't a comedy, end of story. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Linkigi(Link-ee-jee)

With regard to umbrellas in the Midwest, Rym is correct -- they don't exist. At least not in Rochester.

Apreche

Naoza said:

And yet the question: "Which is a better comedy, Ironman 2 or Talledega Nights?" still has meaning and an answer. Subjective though it may be. Just because one was created with the intent of being a comedy and the other wasn't which one has more elements of a good comedy is a serious question, which jokes hit harder and last longer are valid criteria to judge them on.

I imagine your purist answer is: Ironman 2 isn't a comedy, end of story. Correct me if I'm wrong.

What's a better hamburger, the Empire State Building or a basketball?

You can say which HAS better comedy, but asking which IS a better comedy is a broken question.

Linkigi(Link-ee-jee)

Apreche said:

Naoza said:

And yet the question: "Which is a better comedy, Ironman 2 or Talledega Nights?" still has meaning and an answer. Subjective though it may be. Just because one was created with the intent of being a comedy and the other wasn't which one has more elements of a good comedy is a serious question, which jokes hit harder and last longer are valid criteria to judge them on.

I imagine your purist answer is: Ironman 2 isn't a comedy, end of story. Correct me if I'm wrong.

What's a better hamburger, the Empire State Building or a basketball?

You can say which HAS better comedy, but asking which IS a better comedy is a broken question.

It's not. A movie not being designed as a comedy doesn't prevent you from treating it as one. The author is deaaaaaaad!

Apreche

Linkigi(Link-ee-jee) said:

Apreche said:

Naoza said:

And yet the question: "Which is a better comedy, Ironman 2 or Talledega Nights?" still has meaning and an answer. Subjective though it may be. Just because one was created with the intent of being a comedy and the other wasn't which one has more elements of a good comedy is a serious question, which jokes hit harder and last longer are valid criteria to judge them on.

I imagine your purist answer is: Ironman 2 isn't a comedy, end of story. Correct me if I'm wrong.

What's a better hamburger, the Empire State Building or a basketball?

You can say which HAS better comedy, but asking which IS a better comedy is a broken question.

It's not. A movie not being designed as a comedy doesn't prevent you from treating it as one. The author is deaaaaaaad!

It's not about the intent of the author. It's about the facts of the object that is created.

If I go to the pottery shack and try to make an amphora, but end up with a teacup, it's a teacup. Doesn't matter what I say it is. Doesn't even matter if I put oil in that teacup. I'm dead, and it's still a teacup.