I was in my school's Go club for about two weeks before I decided to get the hell out of there, mostly because the other people in the club were the exact type of people you don't want to be around. The president had an "aversion" to water, the VP was that guy who would walk up to you at an anime convention and talk all about his loli-hentai collection and won't leave, and the only other member wore the same outfit every single day. Since I quit the club, I haven't been able to play Go, though.
That game seems to be completely pedantic and intentionally complex. Plus, the incredibly niche and relatively obscure nature of the game makes it almost worthless to learn, let alone master.
And Li, I assure you, that is not representative of Go players as a whole.
That game seems to be completely pedantic and intentionally complex. Plus, the incredibly niche and relatively obscure nature of the game makes it almost worthless to learn, let alone master.
You just don't know how to do simple arithmetic, do you? ~_^
It would probably be easier if you started a push for everyone to watch Hikaru no Go. It's a great anime, and if it doesn't make you at least want to try Go, nothing will.
Hikaru no Go was awesome enough to get me to go to a local Go club around here. There were some good teachers and I got to play a few games. The depth of this game is amazing. The people who were teaching at the club had made Go a part of their life. They played a few times a week with various clubs. I agree with Scott that this is just a game that requires more time investment then I have to offer.
Well, to be honest, you can just play one game a day, and that would be enough practice for any normal person. I'm glad you enjoyed your experience, though.
I'm just getting back into Go. U of R (and Rochester in general) is really big on chess, and a lot of people see the deeper strategy of Go as something they'd like to start playing around with. Right now we meet at U of R, and maybe if we get more people we'll actually have a meeting schedule.
I recognize the high quality of the game of Go, but the game really isn't fun. I've played it quite a few times, but I'm never excited by it. Despite there being a very large number of possible moves, there is actually are a very small number of good moves. Sure, there are probably a bunch of good moves I'm not seeing, which is why I get my ass handed to me against anyone who actually knows how to play. However, the amount of practice and effort required to achieve that skill level is such a huge investment of time, that I really can't afford.
I guess the amount of "fun" you get from Go is subjective, but I find playing against someone with a similar skill level is quite a lot of fun. Paying attention to your opponent's moves, understanding their mindset and implementing your own maneuvers to counteract that, it's all really quite interesting. But again, probably subjective.
To be honest, I don't think you have to sink any more time into go than you need to with any other board game. It's not like you learned how to solve "Settlers of Catan" or "Carcassonne" in just a few games. Seriously, Scott. If you haven't already discounted the game, I suggest playing at least one "Teaching Game" with someone that really knows how to play. It'll help a ton.
To be honest, I don't think you have to sink any more time into go than you need to with any other board game. It's not like you learned how to solve "Settlers of Catan" or "Carcassonne" in just a few games. Seriously, Scott. If you haven't already discounted the game, I suggest playing at least one "Teaching Game" with someone that really knows how to play. It'll help a ton.
I've played quite a few teaching games on small and big boards.
Let's compare it to chess, which is also a perfect information game, and I think you will see why I do not find it fun. I also suck at chess, by the way. I can beat a normal person, but a real Chess player beats me every time. While I'm not a big fan of Chess either, it's a little bit more fun than Go.
The reason is that when you suck at Chess, at least you know you are sucking. You can plainly see that you are losing a lot more pieces than the other player. Go, on the other hand, gives relatively little feedback as to your performance. When it does give feedback, the feedback is very much delayed. A bad move might not be apparent until many turns from now.
Because Go does not give this feedback as much, it is very difficult to get better without intense study. The pros and cons of any particular move are not only non-obvious, they are outright obscured. So when I'm playing Go, I can't get any feeling out of it. I don't feel good or bad about any particular moves I make. I don't have any expectations about future moves, or have worries about my opponents possibilities. The game has no feeling, no drama. It's just bland right up until the disappointment at the end.
Compare that a game like Agricola. You can see how well other players are doing. You get feedback from the game when you make a decision. There is drama of whether or not other players are going to take the action you need.
Now I know that Go does have drama, but like in many things it is just hard to see. Many people don't see the drama of sports, and I understand that it is because they don't know enough about them, so the drama remains hidden. I know that if I learn more about Go the drama will also reveal itself to me. It's just that the required investment in order to reach that point is extremely large considering the other things I have to do. With other games, all I have to do is read the rules. With Go, I know the rules, yet that is still not enough.
I don't think you have to sink any more time into go than you need to with any other board game. It's not like you learned how to solve "Settlers of Catan" or "Carcassonne" in just a few games.
It takes me an average of one play to have a good grasp of most board games. By two or three plays, I've usually mastered all of the standard strategies achieved several sub-game optimizations. Three, maybe four hours tops of total play, and I'd call myself an extremely competitive player in pretty-much every German style game I've spent the time on.
To reach what I would consider basic competence in Go certainly requires more than that. It's a more abstract game with more patterns, more states, and most importantly, more avenues of failure. This is a significant learning hurdle for most people.
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And I'm still throwing sticks at the second death or alive puzzle. There's a link in the epilog at the end of the tutorial.
And Li, I assure you, that is not representative of Go players as a whole.
Though I am intrigued at how it could be implemented in a Role Playing situation.
It's a great anime, and if it doesn't make you at least want to try Go, nothing will.
Go KGS Server
To be honest, I don't think you have to sink any more time into go than you need to with any other board game. It's not like you learned how to solve "Settlers of Catan" or "Carcassonne" in just a few games. Seriously, Scott. If you haven't already discounted the game, I suggest playing at least one "Teaching Game" with someone that really knows how to play. It'll help a ton.
Let's compare it to chess, which is also a perfect information game, and I think you will see why I do not find it fun. I also suck at chess, by the way. I can beat a normal person, but a real Chess player beats me every time. While I'm not a big fan of Chess either, it's a little bit more fun than Go.
The reason is that when you suck at Chess, at least you know you are sucking. You can plainly see that you are losing a lot more pieces than the other player. Go, on the other hand, gives relatively little feedback as to your performance. When it does give feedback, the feedback is very much delayed. A bad move might not be apparent until many turns from now.
Because Go does not give this feedback as much, it is very difficult to get better without intense study. The pros and cons of any particular move are not only non-obvious, they are outright obscured. So when I'm playing Go, I can't get any feeling out of it. I don't feel good or bad about any particular moves I make. I don't have any expectations about future moves, or have worries about my opponents possibilities. The game has no feeling, no drama. It's just bland right up until the disappointment at the end.
Compare that a game like Agricola. You can see how well other players are doing. You get feedback from the game when you make a decision. There is drama of whether or not other players are going to take the action you need.
Now I know that Go does have drama, but like in many things it is just hard to see. Many people don't see the drama of sports, and I understand that it is because they don't know enough about them, so the drama remains hidden. I know that if I learn more about Go the drama will also reveal itself to me. It's just that the required investment in order to reach that point is extremely large considering the other things I have to do. With other games, all I have to do is read the rules. With Go, I know the rules, yet that is still not enough.
To reach what I would consider basic competence in Go certainly requires more than that. It's a more abstract game with more patterns, more states, and most importantly, more avenues of failure. This is a significant learning hurdle for most people.