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GeekNights 070328 - To Terra
Tonight on GeekNights we review volume one of Keiko Takemiya's To Terra. In the news, Pokemon is a decade old, and 5 cm per Second has a torrent.
Scott's Thing - Mecha Image of the Day
Rym's Thing - Challenger On Fire: Name 100 Anime Characters
Comments
"Even if it was shojo, you would still be a condescending sexist asshole."
Scott just really doesn't strike it with the ladies ^_^
Listen up, fem-nazis. It's okay to believe whatever you want about whomever you want, even if that person is a different race, gender, religion, social class, or other tribal antecedent than you. It's not okay to discriminate based on such criteria. If Scott were an employer who didn't hire women, or perhaps a police officer who was more likely to arrest women, then, yes, there would be a problem. I don't think that's the case here.
Everybody has a right to equal treatment under the law.
Nobody has a right not to be offended. Nobody, anywhere, ever.
It would be nice if everyone treated everyone else like a loved family member. We should all try to be better people. Etc etc. But nobody has any right to try to force such a belief on anyone, nor to force anyone to behave as if they have such a belief. Otherwise, you're just stealing freedom from one group of people and giving it to another.
So yeah, maybe Scott's a sexist. I'm not gonna be the one to say. I sure am, in that I believe there are quantitative and qualitative differences between the sexes. I believe those differences should be discussed--indeed, loudly trumpeted--and also celebrated. We should all explore our masculinity and femininity of the human being, from every angle.
And we should never, ever, try to limit free speech by labeling people. Yeah, that goes for you, "fem-nazis". </irony>
It's likely a product of the way manga has been marketed in the US, coupled with the kinds of works released, but the fact remains that Americans identify shoujo as a content genre MUCH MORESO than they do anything else.
I also note that Anne Ishii, Vertical's director of marketing and publicity, said that, in To Terra, "there are shojo elements and homoeroticism that are apparent in later volumes. But the adventure is a strong shonen element."
Funny, but it almost sounds like Anne is talking about shoujo like it's a content genre. How else could you describe a manga as having "shoujo elements"?
Like it or not, the common usage of the word shoujo in the US refers to style and content genres, NOT demographic genres.
It really sounds like Clarissa has a bug up her butt and decided to jump down Scott's throat over a minor point. It also sounds like she doesn't exactly understand what "sanctimonious" means, since I'd hardly have called Scott's emails such... ^_~
Did you even listen to the AWO episode before you wrote that?????? I'm not even gonna honor a reply to that other than it doesn't have anything to do with what I posted previously except taking only the quote... while some of the ideas were of merit, they weren't relevant to the conversation...
Maybe she is just jealous...
I used to watch the old Battlestar Galactica and I just never got into the newer one :-(
Keiko Takemiya! All right. For all fans of shounen ai and yaoi, Kaze to Ki no Uta (The Song of the Wind and the Trees) is a classic. It is as necessary for a shounen ai fan to watch and/or read this as it is for a writer to peruse Strunk and White at least once in their lifetime.
I first watched Kaze to Ki no Uta back in the nineties sometime after I first realized that I wasn't the only one who thought Trowa and Quatre had something going on. Thank goodness for the internet. I had already hooked up with my future Neo Gokuraku (anime club) co-prez and she was the one who leant me the fansubbed tapes that held the following shounen ai/yaoi titles:
Kaze to Ki no Uta
Ai no Kusabi
Zetsu Ai, Bronze: Zetsu Ai since 1989, and Bronze: Cathexis (three different parts about the same characters; Takehito Koyasu is the seiyuu of Izumi)
You can still find information about these titles on Aestheticism. The website needs to be updated but the listing in the video section is still pretty good.
The Kaze to Ki no Uta OVA is intense without being damaging to those with tender sensibilities (you know, the squeamish bunch) when it comes to shounen ai and yaoi titles. The first paragraph from Wikipedia does a fair job of describing the general frame of the story:
"Kaze to Ki No Uta is the story of Serge Batouille, the son of a wealthy man and a Roma woman. Taking place in the late 19th century, the story is a recollection of his memories of Gilbert Cocteau at Laconblade Academy in Provene, France. The story has themes of class prejudice, racism, homophobia, homosexuality, incest, paedophilia, rape, prostitution, and drug abuse."
Going on to the dispute on shoujo... I assumed everyone knew shoujo meant it was aimed at young girls in the same way shounen, seinen, josei etc etc are aimed at those respective groups. These are all indeed demographics. Shounen ai is considered shoujo because it is a genre aimed at the demographic of young girls and even older women as well. Shounen ai = genre while shoujo = demographic. This is why a manga or anime can be both shoujo and shounen, i.e. aimed at both boys and girls. It is possible. What young girls (or any other group) find attractive in a manga or an anime does not fall into a formula which might have been what got Scott in trouble with Clarissa in addition to his perceived know-it-all attitude on the podcast. Suffice it to say Scott doesn't know it all (but who cares about that, just brush it off, some people come off a little arrogant) and perhaps he was just the millionth person to equate shoujo with the American concepts of "girly" or "chick flick." The straw that broke the camel's back and all.
"Shoujo works, however, cover a huge range of subjects, from historical drama to science fiction and by no means do all adhere to the same artistic sensibilities or conventions (Wikipedia)." Understanding this about shoujo is key. The Japanese and of course original use of the word shoujo allows for a less narrow understanding than in the U.S. In the U.S, most people are locked into constricting definitions on what masculinity and femininity are (*nods to Kenjura*), and most other people who are not locked into the box are ostracized and cast to the fringes of society. The perception of American sensibilities is why certain anime/manga are released here and others are not and it is also the reason why anime/manga is censored to the atrocious level that it is. "Oh let's bring this anime across from Japan because we feel this set of people in the U.S. should like this and let's change it up all willy nilly so it's normal for the U.S." That's basically how certain companies butcher anime no? It is not as if to say Japan has it down when it comes to gender and identity issues and the U.S. doesn't but in this particular case their system of classifying anime/manga genre is a step ahead. Wouldn't it be better to understand shoujo as it was meant to be understood and not allow it to be warped by backwards U.S. concepts of gender?
A question that comes to my mind suddenly is this: Can anyone tell me the difference between Ronin Warriors (Yoroiden-Samurai Troopers) and Sailor Moon? I mean this seriously to those who have seen both, what would you consider the major differences to be?
Yet another question or two: What the hell is a "chick flick?" And is it possible for a guy to enjoy such a thing? (added edit)
I am now going to listen to Clarissa's rant to see if she really did lay into Scott all that badly.
And I will so be checking out To Terra! ^.^
That said, I think Clarissa overreacted, and I think it's down to a power dynamic AWO has going. Clarissa and Gerald (although in this case you substituted for Gerald) take sides and yell at each other or make digs at each other, with Clarissa usually being the most agressive at this. Meanwhile, Daryl tries to be mediator, and is also totally hilarious. I think this fell victim to that.
Plus, it's entertainment, and "well, your e-mail was a little sexist, and I sort of disagree with your definition of shojo, blah blah blah" is much less entertaining than "FUCK YOU YOU SEXIST SON OF A BITCH, I'M GOING TO KILL YOU FOR INSULTING SHOJO AND ALL WOMEN EVERYWHERE!"
Lastly, it sounds to me that AWO just wanted to vent about you guys. Who really cares, they are just a bunch of anime nerds who spout their insanely vast knowledge of anime to others. Nerds.
When someone uses a word with a historical burden, it is not difficult to tell what idea that person is attempting to communicate in context. Looking at the above example of the use of the word femi-nazi, it is obvious that only the super overzealous feminists who hate men, who do exist, are being referred to. It's also obvious that when I used the word shojo that I mean japanese comics with romance, relationships, etc. It's also obvious that when people use racial slurs which are applicable to themselves that they are not racist.
Remember, you don't have a right not to be offended. If you decide you are going to interpret words using only their historical meanings, you are going to end up hating a lot of people who you have no reason to hate. That's just too bad for you. I would hope most people are intelligent enough to infer the intended meanings of things that other people say. Trust me, you'll be much better off if you take what people say at face value, and not pretend they are saying something else. History is history. Recognize it, but leave it in the past.