Guys...can't we give iSuck a pass here. Through various posts I have "outed" myself as a follower of the Lutheran variety of Christianity. I have also been very vocal that there are some belief systems within Christianity that scare me to know end. These sects scare me more due to their view that they are superior to "non-believers" and that it is their duty to convert or isolate. That view is demonstrably bad.
I would further the argument that radical disbelief holds a very similar place. It is not intellectually unsound to believe in a being, that for sake of argument we will call God, that was the master designer and fabricator of the universe. I am a chemical engineer and as scientific as the day is long. I am not stupid, gullible, or insane. I believe what I believe and to be mocked or put down for my beliefs is as intellectually arrogant as any religious person giving a non-believer the business.
iSuck, I don't know much about being Mormon, but I know it doesn't mesh with my belief system. Good thing we living in the USA huh? You get to be a Mormon, I get to be a Lutheran, and many people on here get to be Atheist. It's good to be allowed to be who you are without persecution or ridicule.
Now I could continue to post and I could give lots of reasons, scientific reasons for why I believe in God. (Second law of thermodynamics, the elegance of physics, the harmony of the universe) I think I will leave it with the following statement. We are all brothers. That is applicable if you believe we are all children of God or if you believe that we crawled out of some primordial soup together to get a wiff of this new crazy drug they call air. Either way we all Brothers in Geek.
Now I could continue to post and I could give lots of reasons, scientific reasons for why I believe in God. (Second law of thermodynamics, the elegance of physics, the harmony of the universe) I think I will leave it with the following statement.
Please do so, and include lots of sources please. It would probably be a good idea to start a new thread though.
Guys...can't we give iSuck a pass here. Through various posts I have "outed" myself as a follower of the Lutheran variety of Christianity. I have also been very vocal that there are some belief systems within Christianity that scare me to know end. These sects scare me more due to their view that they are superior to "non-believers" and that it is their duty to convert or isolate. That view is demonstrably bad. I would further the argument that radical disbelief holds a very similar place. It is not intellectually unsound to believe in a being, that for sake of argument we will call God, that was the master designer and fabricator of the universe. I am a chemical engineer and as scientific as the day is long. I am not stupid, gullible, or insane. I believe what I believe and to be mocked or put down for my beliefs is as intellectually arrogant as any religious person giving a non-believer the business. iSuck, I don't know much about being Mormon, but I know it doesn't mesh with my belief system. Good thing we living in the USA huh? You get to be a Mormon, I get to be a Lutheran, and many people on here get to be Atheist. It's good to be allowed to be who you are without persecution or ridicule. Now I could continue to post and I could give lots of reasons, scientific reasons for why I believe in God. (Second law of thermodynamics, the elegance of physics, the harmony of the universe) I think I will leave it with the following statement. We are all brothers. That is applicable if you believe we are all children of God or if you believe that we crawled out of some primordial soup together to get a wiff of this new crazy drug they call air. Either way we all Brothers in Geek. Amen...lol
Thanks John. Yeah, I guess it's good to be in the US. It's kinda rough being teased, and being called names just cause of something I believe in.
Why is there so much hate against religions now a days. The only problem I have with religions (Atheism included) is the people who believe them insist on hate. I honestly do not care if god exists, It is actual flesh and blood people who make the difference and how does yelling that there is or isn't any external force make you a better person or help those around you?
Thanks John. Yeah, I guess it's good to be in the US. It's kinda rough being teased, and being called names just cause of something I believe in.
No one called you a name or teased you. Your beliefs came under fire, and you did nothing to support them. Although, I think Zeehat and One Sin went a touch over the line from skepticism to name calling in their last posts.
Why is there so much hate against religions now a days. The only problem I have with religions (Atheism included) is the people who believe them insist on hate.
Atheism is not a religion. By the very definition, atheism can never be a religion. What you are mistaking atheism for is anti-theism.
Why is there so much hate against religions now a days. The only problem I have with religions (Atheism included) is the people who believe them insist on hate.
Atheism is not a religion. By the very definition, atheism can never be a religion. What you are mistaking atheism for is anti-theism.
Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a haircut.
Although, I think Zeehat and One Sin went a touch over the line from skepticism to name calling in their last posts.
Bet yer ass I went to namecalling.
So far, all the kid did was make lame excuses rather than accept defeat and stop posting on the subject. Excuses which, frankly, did NOTHING to further his position. Seeing as he insists on continuing along that line of discussion . . .
If Atheism is the direct disbelief of gods then its still a belief in something that can't be confirmed or denied. And bald is technically a hair cut (you can go and ask for it at the barber shop) Before an arguments starts could someone please direct me over to the group of people who don't care if god exists or doesn't and just want to help people. Sort of like Agnostic theists but still don't believe in gods.
Wal-Mart owns the company I work for but I've heard bad things about them. Like sony hardware except they insist of taking really cool technologies and creating just the highest priced hardware (digital paper and OLED as examples) and anything else apart from hardware is generally pretty crap.
If atheism is the direct disbelief of gods then its still a belief in something that can't be confirmed or denied.
NO! What did we just say? Atheism is the absence of religious beliefs. By the very definition, once again, atheism can never be a religion. EVER! Now, I'm not saying that there are people there who actively disbelieve in gods, but that is anti-theism, not atheism. It's another one of those "at least on paper" things.
And bald is technically a hair cut (you can go and ask for it at the barber shop)
Err... No. Baldness means that you have lost all your hair. Therefore, it can not be cut that way. Now, you walk into a barber shop and ask for a shaved head... /nitpick
Before any arguments start could someone please direct me over to the group of people who don't care if god exists or doesn't and just want to help people. Sort of likeAgnostic theistsbut still don't believe in gods.
I'd just like to make clear at this juncture that atheist is not synonymous with amoral. I don't think you were implying that, but I just wanted to make sure. The thing that you are referring to is called Secular Humanism.
Saving ourselves for the one that we one day will marry.
Oh Gods, here it comes . . .
We, or at least I, can control myself. I don't go running around with a pocket full of condoms, restraining my sexual needs to my girlfriend, because that's not what life is about.
Crocodile tears and sour grapes, what? I'll bet you don't have a girlfriend. I'll bet you don't have to worry about defiling yourself because you've never been lucky enough to be in a position of imminent defilement. You "don't go running around with a pocket full of condoms" because you don't need them, not because you're a model of forebearance. If your chastity is not by choice (which I strongly suspect), it's hardly a virtue.
Our religion is something we believe in, and we don't harm you in the process . . .
You've harmed me enough by constantly playing your stupid commercials on my TV. If that's not harm enough, here's two words for you: "The Osmonds".
At least Catholics don't try to evangelize all the time. Also, their story has some class.
I hate firms that are secret frontends for Scientology. A former friend of mine is deep into Scientology and have run several firms connected to Scientology. He was the leader of the local branch of U-MAN - an international firm that makes personality tests for firms based on a version of dianetics. One of his firms, I don't know which, tried to donate free computers to elementary schools under the clause that the schools had to use their special textbooks with ads for other Scientology literature. Luckily they failed. I can't express how much I hate that Scientology scam!
Sail, thanks for the link on secular humanism but your wrong on the other counts and Atheism does have a capital A.
I used to just pity Scientology believers but after hearing on "The Sceptics Guide" about that girl who killed her family because they wouldn't let her have psychiatric help I think they should be forcibly disbanded on the grounds of indirectly causing harm. I also particularly dislike the fact that they use science in their name.
Crocodile tears and sour grapes, what? I'll bet you don'thavea girlfriend. I'll bet you don't have to worry about defiling yourself because you've never been lucky enough to be in a position of imminent defilement. You "don't go running around with a pocket full of condoms" because you don'tneedthem, not because you're a model of forebearance. If your chastity is not by choice (which I strongly suspect), it's hardly a virtue.
You know what, I don't have to fucking prove anything to you. I get so fucking sick and tired about everyone criticizing the Mormons. Look, I really don't know much about my religion, I, in fact, know only very little about it, due to my absences at the church, which is why I can barely defend it, because I don't get out there as much as I used to. And, frankly, I don't give a shit what you guys say, I was baptized a Mormon, and I'm damn well staying one. I do have a girlfriend, what the hell is it to you? It shouldn't really matter to you who, or what the hell I am. I am me. I am a living breathing individual with certain beliefs and for Gods sake, I don't care if you respect me or not, I'm sure as hell not gonna show up to any of you, I'm here to live and see life for what it is. I don't ask for anything from you. I am a Mormon by choice, I don't choose it because I have to. I'm happy at where I'm at. All I ask is for you, to leave me the hell alone, and I'll be happy. And as for the whole "pocket full of condoms" thing, I cant even begin to tell you how much times I was in a situation where I thought I would need them. I also have turned girls down, because all they wanted was sex, therefore, I have been in a position of imminent defilement, unlike you. If I wasn't happy where I am now, I would be getting more ass than a god damn toilet seat. Like I said, I could care less. But don't talk shit about my religious beliefs and shit. It pisses me off.
If Atheism is the direct disbelief of gods then its still a belief in something that can't be confirmed or denied.
Umm, no? Of course, I will never say "Yes, there is absolutely no god", but the lack of evidence shows that the probability gods existence is so infinitesimally small that it is effectively zero. Think of Atheism as the scientific stand point, we are not saying that he doesn't exist, but that there is no evidence that he does, so there is no reason to believe he does. Are you an active "believer" in the disbelief of Thor or Zeus? As Dawkin's says so often, We are all atheists, I just go one god further.
Also, removing hair by artificial means is called shaving, or having a shaved head. Loss of hair is baldness. Therefore, bald != haircut.
You know what, I don't have to fucking prove anything to you. I get so fucking sick and tired about everyone criticizing the Mormons. Look, I really don't know much about my religion, I, in fact, know only very little about it, due to my absences at the church, which is why I can barely defend it, because I don't get out there as much as I used to.
With all respect, why are you so adamant of a belief you barely know anything about? I fully support your right to believe and I am not saying we should stop you, but why be so strong in a belief you yourself said you barely knew at all?
Well, Poison, I have, lately, been reading on it, I bought a set of scriptures to read, and I have been researching stuff online. The reason for my not attending is due to the fact that I can't get a ride down there, even if my life depended on it. It is about a 4 mile drive, I have no bike, And no one is around anymore to give me a ride. I really am making an effort to learn more about it, but I don't get as much of a chance anymore. So until I can find a reliable ride, I'm stuck to internet and scriptures.
I, in fact, know only very little about it, due to my absences at the church, which is why I can barely defend it, because I don't get out there as much as I used to. And, frankly, I don't give a shit what you guys say, I was baptized a Mormon, and I'm damn well staying one.
Nice reasoning. Solve many problems with that logic?
But don't talk shit about my religious beliefs and shit. It pisses me off.
You don't know anything about your religion, so why should you care? The only reason you're in it is because you were born into it. It doesn't sound like you're very devoted to it to me.
All I ask is for you, to leave me the hell alone, and I'll be happy.
That's kinda my point. Mormons don't leave us alone with all their proselytizing and evangelizing tomfoolery. If you leave us alone, I'll leave you alone.
And as for the whole "pocket full of condoms" thing, I cant even begin to tell you how much times I was in a situation where I thought I would need them. I also have turned girls down, because all they wanted was sex . . .
Poor emo kid - so terribly attractive he has to fight the girls off with a stick.
. . . unlike you . . .
I've been married for 10 years. I'm at the point where I'd rather sleep than have sex.
The diference between us is that I didn't come on this thread with a chip on my shoulder talking about how virtuous I was for not doing something I don't have a chance to do anyway. To put it in more concrete terms, I didn't come on this thread and start talking about how virtuous I was for not launching a nuclear missile at Korea - because I couldn't do it even if I wanted to. It's not hard to resist temptation if you're not tempted, and I honestly don't think you've been tempted.
Speaking of virtue, shouldn't you be humble about about your chastity?
I respect anyone who expresses a belief in Jesus. After all, at least he most likely existed... although whether or not he was the son of God is another question.
On the other hand, I can't imagine how someone can believe that Jesus visited North America, and that a bunch of gold tablets were left buried in upstate New York. These tablets were "found" by an average Joe who, you guessed it, couldn't actually produce them. Nonetheless, with divine intervention, he was able to translate them from ancient Egyptian to English. I also have a hard time believing that the second coming of Christ will take place in... ready for this... Jackson County Missouri!
And besides, you guys knock on my door at least once a year. So you really aren't leaving me alone. I'm also not a fan of the underwear.
Here is what I respect about Mormons. At the risk of stereotyping, they are hard working people devoted to family and community. That is laudable, and they should be commended for that.
It's no secret that a lot of people on this board are Atheists. Most people are pretty fair, but I think that a couple of comments have crossed the line.
Like I said... I may not agree with it, but I actually respect any religion that has good values as its core.
Sail, thanks for the link on secular humanism but you're wrong on the other counts and Atheism does have a capital A.
I added the "a" because there was none present in your original post. "Theism" did not make sense in your sentence. In regards to the "a" being capital, I would only capitalize it if I thought it was a proper noun... Which I don't. I've never read anything that said ideologies are capitalized.
I'd also like to know why you think I'm wrong next time, other than the fact that you think so.
I'll tell you what. I don't like Gamestop or EB Games. They rip you off at every chance you get, and minus the internet, theres no where else decent to buy games. I would avoid the store, but having never played consoles, I really like to browse games just to see what titles are out there, as reading a box can be worlds more useful than just seeing a tiny pixelated shot of it on a webpage.
But hey, I'm just picky aren't I.
I think they're only benefit is used games. GTA III is 3.99 baby.
Comments
I would further the argument that radical disbelief holds a very similar place. It is not intellectually unsound to believe in a being, that for sake of argument we will call God, that was the master designer and fabricator of the universe. I am a chemical engineer and as scientific as the day is long. I am not stupid, gullible, or insane. I believe what I believe and to be mocked or put down for my beliefs is as intellectually arrogant as any religious person giving a non-believer the business.
iSuck, I don't know much about being Mormon, but I know it doesn't mesh with my belief system. Good thing we living in the USA huh? You get to be a Mormon, I get to be a Lutheran, and many people on here get to be Atheist. It's good to be allowed to be who you are without persecution or ridicule.
Now I could continue to post and I could give lots of reasons, scientific reasons for why I believe in God. (Second law of thermodynamics, the elegance of physics, the harmony of the universe) I think I will leave it with the following statement. We are all brothers. That is applicable if you believe we are all children of God or if you believe that we crawled out of some primordial soup together to get a wiff of this new crazy drug they call air. Either way we all Brothers in Geek.
Amen...lol
Thanks John. Yeah, I guess it's good to be in the US. It's kinda rough being teased, and being called names just cause of something I believe in.
Rather than offering the "It's my belief" bullshit, how bout' ya either defend your position like a man or SHUT UP.
Just a friendly suggestion.
Fucking Mormons.
/sarcasm.lol.
So far, all the kid did was make lame excuses rather than accept defeat and stop posting on the subject. Excuses which, frankly, did NOTHING to further his position.
Seeing as he insists on continuing along that line of discussion . . .
Before an arguments starts could someone please direct me over to the group of people who don't care if god exists or doesn't and just want to help people. Sort of like Agnostic theists but still don't believe in gods.
/nitpick I'd just like to make clear at this juncture that atheist is not synonymous with amoral. I don't think you were implying that, but I just wanted to make sure. The thing that you are referring to is called Secular Humanism.
At least Catholics don't try to evangelize all the time. Also, their story has some class.
I used to just pity Scientology believers but after hearing on "The Sceptics Guide" about that girl who killed her family because they wouldn't let her have psychiatric help I think they should be forcibly disbanded on the grounds of indirectly causing harm. I also particularly dislike the fact that they use science in their name.
Crocodile tears and sour grapes, what? I'll bet you don'thavea girlfriend. I'll bet you don't have to worry about defiling yourself because you've never been lucky enough to be in a position of imminent defilement. You "don't go running around with a pocket full of condoms" because you don'tneedthem, not because you're a model of forebearance. If your chastity is not by choice (which I strongly suspect), it's hardly a virtue.
You know what, I don't have to fucking prove anything to you. I get so fucking sick and tired about everyone criticizing the Mormons. Look, I really don't know much about my religion, I, in fact, know only very little about it, due to my absences at the church, which is why I can barely defend it, because I don't get out there as much as I used to. And, frankly, I don't give a shit what you guys say, I was baptized a Mormon, and I'm damn well staying one. I do have a girlfriend, what the hell is it to you? It shouldn't really matter to you who, or what the hell I am. I am me. I am a living breathing individual with certain beliefs and for Gods sake, I don't care if you respect me or not, I'm sure as hell not gonna show up to any of you, I'm here to live and see life for what it is. I don't ask for anything from you. I am a Mormon by choice, I don't choose it because I have to. I'm happy at where I'm at. All I ask is for you, to leave me the hell alone, and I'll be happy. And as for the whole "pocket full of condoms" thing, I cant even begin to tell you how much times I was in a situation where I thought I would need them. I also have turned girls down, because all they wanted was sex, therefore, I have been in a position of imminent defilement, unlike you. If I wasn't happy where I am now, I would be getting more ass than a god damn toilet seat. Like I said, I could care less. But don't talk shit about my religious beliefs and shit. It pisses me off.
/rant.
Also, removing hair by artificial means is called shaving, or having a shaved head. Loss of hair is baldness. Therefore, bald != haircut. With all respect, why are you so adamant of a belief you barely know anything about? I fully support your right to believe and I am not saying we should stop you, but why be so strong in a belief you yourself said you barely knew at all?
The diference between us is that I didn't come on this thread with a chip on my shoulder talking about how virtuous I was for not doing something I don't have a chance to do anyway. To put it in more concrete terms, I didn't come on this thread and start talking about how virtuous I was for not launching a nuclear missile at Korea - because I couldn't do it even if I wanted to. It's not hard to resist temptation if you're not tempted, and I honestly don't think you've been tempted.
Speaking of virtue, shouldn't you be humble about about your chastity?
On the other hand, I can't imagine how someone can believe that Jesus visited North America, and that a bunch of gold tablets were left buried in upstate New York. These tablets were "found" by an average Joe who, you guessed it, couldn't actually produce them. Nonetheless, with divine intervention, he was able to translate them from ancient Egyptian to English. I also have a hard time believing that the second coming of Christ will take place in... ready for this... Jackson County Missouri!
And besides, you guys knock on my door at least once a year. So you really aren't leaving me alone. I'm also not a fan of the underwear.
Here is what I respect about Mormons. At the risk of stereotyping, they are hard working people devoted to family and community. That is laudable, and they should be commended for that.
It's no secret that a lot of people on this board are Atheists. Most people are pretty fair, but I think that a couple of comments have crossed the line.
Like I said... I may not agree with it, but I actually respect any religion that has good values as its core.
I'd also like to know why you think I'm wrong next time, other than the fact that you think so.
But hey, I'm just picky aren't I.
I think they're only benefit is used games. GTA III is 3.99 baby.