I'll bet money that, if it were to happen, a student or faculty member would be shot by someone carrying under that rule before any student or faculty member was shot by a third party.
I'll bet money that, if it were to happen, a student or faculty member would be shot by someone carrying under that rule before any student or faculty member was shot by a third party.
More than likely. I'm hoping it won't pass because it is the stupidest piece of reactionary trash to come before a legislative group since the secessionist shit. However, the depths to my state's stupidity never cease to amaze me.
Yeah the idea that we need to arm everyone is bullshit. Even if you say if SOMEONE was there to stop X tragedy then it wouldn't have been as bad, that isn't the same thing as saying everyone needs go carry. Why can't they just have a guard or something in the school who's carrying concealed. That bill is just asking for trouble.
Well, that's how we won the American Revolution, right guys?! Because of our guns, our God, our freedom, and our can-do Yankee spirit!
Uuuuurrrgghhh...
I know you're joking, but the American Revolution is understood by basically no one on the national stage. The Sons of Liberty were the terrorists Al Qaeda wishes they could be, the Crossing of the Delaware was a dick move of the highest caliber, and the Boston Massacre was totally called for. I like the country out of it a hell of a lot more than the one we would have gotten without it, but that doesn't make what "we" did right.
The sad thing is that you know the reason quite well. So do I. It's because it sounds right when you think that more guns makes more people civil.
Where I disagree is that a good end point would be for everyone to be civil because of the LOOMING SPECTRE OF AN AGONIZING DEATH.
Yeah, I guess I know the reason, but I'm just not sure I wish to belive it. Even worse, I just know there is some asshole going "Well hey, they do it in Israel, why not here?" without realizing that Israel DON'T do it, they have very, very well trained guards, and teachers generally do not carry(Some do, though, mostly males).
Also, Israel is one of those countries with mandatory military service, so pretty much everyone can be expected to have had basic training and significant experience with handling firearms.
Also, Israel is one of those countries with mandatory military service, so pretty much everyone can be expected to have had basic training and significant experience with handling firearms.
Yes, and it's actually pretty mandatory, there, you have to have a really, really good reason to get out of it.
That said, two points to consider - training is like a knife, you have to keep honing it and touching it up to keep it sharp over time. Second, I've met some guys who are coming out the back end of military service that I wouldn't trust with a water pistol. Military service is not 1:1 with competency or significant experience.
I doubt people even consider that Israel does it. They buy into the entire theory of an armed society is a polite society.
I'd say there is no shortage of people who feel others are impolite to them, and they wouldn't be so rude if they were allowed to openly carry. No shortage of people who believe that who feel slighted, and want to intimidate people into politeness, and their idea of it only.
Apparently, some of the SC legislature is not familiar with the concept of "Some people are just fuckin' assholes." Say for the purpose of the example that I'm an asshole. Hard to imagine, I know, but bear with me. You have a gun? I'm still an asshole. I have a gun too? Guess what, still an asshole. I have a gun and you don't? Someone call Dennis Leary, because I'm an asshoooooole. Nobody has guns? Still an asshole.
An armed society is not a polite society, because politeness does not rely on firearms, nor does it rely on intimidation - which isn't very polite, come to think of it. A polite society is a society where people are just not fucking bastards to each other all the fucking time. Plenty of those with and without firearms.
Churbs, how old were you when the gun ban went into effect in Australia? How did that go down? Some ignorant fucks on my Facebook wall (who know no one even remotely Australian) are saying it didn't stop or slow down crime one bit.
Churbs, how old were you when the gun ban went into effect in Australia? How did that go down? Some ignorant fucks on my Facebook wall (who know no one even remotely Australian) are saying it didn't stop or slow down crime one bit.
1997, so I would have been Ten, if I remember correctly. I was actually quite upset, because I was only a year away from being able to get my minor's license, and take up shooting as a proper sport(rather than an occasional treat), but with the new rules and all the other nonsense, it was far too expensive and far, far too much trouble to go to for a child's sporting enthusiasim.
I ended up playing baseball instead. Twice Grand Champions, I mostly played first and backup pitcher, but I'm shite up to bat. Little did I know at the time, it also made one of my dream jobs practically impossible in my home country. The NFA, that is, not Baseball.
I already spoke with ThaneofCawdor over in the Guns thread about this, should be a page or two back from current, which should give you more information, including links to a few studies.
As for the crime rate dropping? Harder to answer than it sounds. Firearm crime wasn't terribly common to begin with, and even before the ban, most firearm crime was not committed with legally obtained firearms. We still have plenty of it(Shit, a dude was straight-up executed in front of a sushi place just down the road from me earlier this year), and it's still mostly illegal firearms - Thus the foolishness of people on either side making grand, sweeping statements about if legal or illegal guns are used in crime more, because it varies from place to place - but the rate of firearm crimes performed with *legally* obtained firearms has gone way down.
As much as I hate to use the cliche, firearm crime with illegal firearms didn't go down any more than is expected from the overall downward trend regarding crime, because criminals are criminals because they don't obey the law, and thus, making more guns illegal has no effect when the vast majority of firearms used in crime were illegally obtained to begin with.
Overall crime has dropped, but it's very hard to link that to banning firearms, considering that it's roughly on the expected continual downward trend that was present both before and after the ban, it's actually extremely unclear if the NFA - National Firearms Act - Had any effect whatsoever, as I said to Thane in the Guns! thread, there is no consensus nor clear conclusion. Also, despite both licencing and Gun ownership going UP in recent years, the crime rate continues to drop.
If you really, really pressed me to take a position other than "It's unclear, shake again", it would be that it's very hard to say that the NFA is actually connected to anything barring a few fractional drops where it seems to be strongly connected.
Oh, and bonus - The firearms suicide rate dropped, but only with an equal increase in suicide by other methods, showing substitution of method rather than prevention. Overall suicide remained pretty much steady as she goes.
In a couple of months they will ban evil black rifles, so all AR-15's will be bright pink.
Tactical Rose and Vanilla, thank you very much. California stock, too.
When Google Lively came out, we made a room for Geeknights. People came and went and added stuff to it. It seemed cool, but the novelty wore off quickly and the entire thing was shut down after four months. It's a failed Google project like Google Wave.
Thanks, Churbs. I'll check out the Guns thread for more details too. I've been curious about how it affected things, and I stayed out of the entire debate until I had more facts on the matter. Also because my opinion on the entire gun control thing is actually pretty middle of the road.
I don't see Google's projects that get closed down as failures. Pretty much everything they do starts as an experiment. An experiment with a negative result isn't necessarily a failure.
Comments
I'll bet money that, if it were to happen, a student or faculty member would be shot by someone carrying under that rule before any student or faculty member was shot by a third party.
Where I disagree is that a good end point would be for everyone to be civil because of the LOOMING SPECTRE OF AN AGONIZING DEATH.
EDIT: On another note, someone at my university is awesome and posted these motivators all over the library during finals:
(more beyond link)
I know you're joking, but the American Revolution is understood by basically no one on the national stage. The Sons of Liberty were the terrorists Al Qaeda wishes they could be, the Crossing of the Delaware was a dick move of the highest caliber, and the Boston Massacre was totally called for. I like the country out of it a hell of a lot more than the one we would have gotten without it, but that doesn't make what "we" did right.
That said, two points to consider - training is like a knife, you have to keep honing it and touching it up to keep it sharp over time. Second, I've met some guys who are coming out the back end of military service that I wouldn't trust with a water pistol. Military service is not 1:1 with competency or significant experience. I'd say there is no shortage of people who feel others are impolite to them, and they wouldn't be so rude if they were allowed to openly carry. No shortage of people who believe that who feel slighted, and want to intimidate people into politeness, and their idea of it only.
Apparently, some of the SC legislature is not familiar with the concept of "Some people are just fuckin' assholes." Say for the purpose of the example that I'm an asshole. Hard to imagine, I know, but bear with me. You have a gun? I'm still an asshole. I have a gun too? Guess what, still an asshole. I have a gun and you don't? Someone call Dennis Leary, because I'm an asshoooooole. Nobody has guns? Still an asshole.
An armed society is not a polite society, because politeness does not rely on firearms, nor does it rely on intimidation - which isn't very polite, come to think of it. A polite society is a society where people are just not fucking bastards to each other all the fucking time. Plenty of those with and without firearms.
I ended up playing baseball instead. Twice Grand Champions, I mostly played first and backup pitcher, but I'm shite up to bat. Little did I know at the time, it also made one of my dream jobs practically impossible in my home country. The NFA, that is, not Baseball.
I already spoke with ThaneofCawdor over in the Guns thread about this, should be a page or two back from current, which should give you more information, including links to a few studies.
As for the crime rate dropping? Harder to answer than it sounds. Firearm crime wasn't terribly common to begin with, and even before the ban, most firearm crime was not committed with legally obtained firearms. We still have plenty of it(Shit, a dude was straight-up executed in front of a sushi place just down the road from me earlier this year), and it's still mostly illegal firearms - Thus the foolishness of people on either side making grand, sweeping statements about if legal or illegal guns are used in crime more, because it varies from place to place - but the rate of firearm crimes performed with *legally* obtained firearms has gone way down.
As much as I hate to use the cliche, firearm crime with illegal firearms didn't go down any more than is expected from the overall downward trend regarding crime, because criminals are criminals because they don't obey the law, and thus, making more guns illegal has no effect when the vast majority of firearms used in crime were illegally obtained to begin with.
Overall crime has dropped, but it's very hard to link that to banning firearms, considering that it's roughly on the expected continual downward trend that was present both before and after the ban, it's actually extremely unclear if the NFA - National Firearms Act - Had any effect whatsoever, as I said to Thane in the Guns! thread, there is no consensus nor clear conclusion. Also, despite both licencing and Gun ownership going UP in recent years, the crime rate continues to drop.
If you really, really pressed me to take a position other than "It's unclear, shake again", it would be that it's very hard to say that the NFA is actually connected to anything barring a few fractional drops where it seems to be strongly connected.
Oh, and bonus - The firearms suicide rate dropped, but only with an equal increase in suicide by other methods, showing substitution of method rather than prevention. Overall suicide remained pretty much steady as she goes. Tactical Rose and Vanilla, thank you very much. California stock, too.
OH SNAP!
[ ] - Reece's peanut butter Tolds
[X] - Altolds. Curiously strong Burns.