Gamestop won't sell games to "stupid kids".

Neito

According to Kotaku, a GameStop manager is going to prevent kids doing poorly in school from buying video games. Students will have to show a recent report card, or have an adult vouch for him/her, before they'll be allowed to buy any game at the GameStop.
This crosses a line for me. But, then again, it is "his" store. (I put his in quotes because he's apparently going against policy by doing this)

Jason

I'm pretty sure this violates the "equal protection of the law" clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. Private businesses can no more discriminate based on intellect than they can on skin color.

HungryJoe

For an equal protection argument to work, you need some sort of state action. Discrimination by a private business might violate some other law, like The Americans with Disabilities Act, but it's not unconstitutional.

Apreche

For an equal protection argument to work, you need some sort of state action. Discrimination by a private business might violate someotherlaw, like the Disability Discrimination Act, but it's not unconstitutional.

This is correct. Equal protection under the law means that congress or a state can not make a law that applies differently to different people. So a law that says "natural born citizens have a minimum sentence of five years for robbery, but immigrated citizens have a minimum sentence of ten years" violates equal protection. This is a guy who has a private business, and he can do whatever he wants with that private business. Of course, I am finding it very likely that he will soon find himself out of business.

Erwin

Well, I wonder if they are gonna do something like:
Tobacco is bad for you untill you are older than 18 and beer is bad for you untill you are 21. Therefore videogames are bad for your brain if you cannot show that you can handle them. I think grades would be use in a similar way as an Id car would be use for alcohol and tobacco.

GreatTeacherMacRoss

It would be smarter if he offered some sort of extra bonus or discount for kids who bring in all A's on their report cards or something. Putt-Putt used to give free tokens on special days to kids who had good grades.

Erwin

That would be a fantastic idea! but those it has to be all courses I mean what about PE ?

GreatTeacherMacRoss

That would be a fantastic idea! but those it has to be all courses I mean what about PE ?

What makes PE any less important than any other class?

Erwin

That would be a fantastic idea! but those it has to be all courses I mean what about PE ?
What makes PE any less important than any other class?

I guess I am looking from a different point of view from you. I mean back in Peru an A is basically a 20-18 (we score from 0 to 20). Getting A's here is relatively really easy. Back Peru if you get a 20,19, or 18 you were like a genius. Getting an 20,19, or 18 in Physical education was really hard because basically you would have a to run 100 meters in about 11 to 12 seconds :(  Most of us got 14,15,16 whic are basically C and B- .
Sorry I was thinking I was back in Peru :P

Jason

For an equal protection argument to work, you need some sort of state action. Discrimination by a private business might violate someotherlaw, like the Disability Discrimination Act, but it's not unconstitutional.

Can a business refuse to sell to a customer based on race?

HungryJoe

Can a business refuse to sell to a customer based on race?

There are all kinds of civil rights laws, like Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, the Fair Housing Act, The Americans with Disabilities Act, and so forth, designed to prohibit that kind of activity by businesses. However, that's not the same thing as state action being found unconstitutional based on equal protection.

But you've asked about race. Scott talked about national origin. What's important about those distinctions? Are they the same thing as making bad grades?

Jason

I think you could make a good argument that educational performance is not necessarily a measure of choice to do well in school, but a combination of nature and nurture that can be outside of a child's control.

In much the same way that race or national origin is outside of a person's control, grades can be as well. I think that, using the following examples, I could argue to a jury successfully that grade-based discrimination is just as odious as racism.

Say a kid has an extremely low IQ -- let's say 75, which puts him at borderline retardation. Is it fair to deny a product or service to an individual based on a lack of ability to learn?

Let's try another one -- what if the kid has a higher IQ of 120, but his parents never bought him books, are unsupportive, and place a low emphasis on grades. Should the child be denied access to a product or service because of his environment?

Let's try one more scenario -- what if the kid has an IQ of 180, and is so bored all day in school that he can't pay attention. He finds school work to be worthless and derivative because he's so far ahead of his class intellectually. He therefore just quits doing homework. His grades slip. Should he be denied a product or service because he's too smart for his school?

This is America, people. You should be able to buy what you want regardless of what haircut you have, what color your skin is, whether you're a veteran, if you practice or don't practice a religion, if you're native or not native, whether you're tall or short, and no matter what grades you have.

Denny Crane.

HungryJoe

It's unlikely that you would get to a jury. The group of kids who make bad grades would not be a suspect class as a matter of law. They don't

1. Share immutable characteristics.
2. Shares a history of discrimination, and
3. They're not politically impotent.
4. They're not a discrete and insular minority.

Your group of retarded kids - maybe, but they'd probably already be covered under the Americans with Disabilities Act as to this private business.

Jason

Then I shall retreat to the simple plea of, "I think this guy is a douschebag, and I hope somebody out there gang rapes him."

Kazuo

All you have to do is find some random person willing to buy the game for you. You might have to pay him five bucks or so, but it's not that hard. I used to do it for R rated movies.

Grades aren't a good representation of how smart a person is anyways. I would say in high school it was part how well you studied, how well you could get a teacher to think you were smart or deserving of a good grade, and then a little bit of how smart you were.

If grades did asses how smart a person was, I don't really think it would encourage a lot of kids to study. Some of the more stupid people I know would rather sit around and do nothing, rather than study. Kids can also get the game somewhere else or just find something else to do entirely, like drugs maybe. Who knows?...

Sparkybuzzed

A private business may refuse to serve anyone for any reason. If this guy believes that denying video games to kids will help improve their work at school, more power to him. This isn't a civil rights issue or anything else. I'm of the mind that parents who buy rated M games for their kids should be beaten bloody with Wii-motes. But, no one listens to me.

One Sin

I can't exactly blame them if you're gonna make a blanket statement like that . . .

I'd be more worried about parents who buy M rated games for their kids then complain about it later . . .

kage_rod

I wouldn't sell games to people who are buying them for their kids without a lecture first. -.-;; Other than that? No. As someone who has shitty grades simply because I can't put myself to the work, it'd really suck. It's embarrassing in the first place, and I would avoid that place like the plague, as well as never mention it's name when telling someone where to go. Personal opinions should never enter the actual business part; and making customers show that they are 'worthy' of buying your stuff is bull. *sigh*

JukeBoxJosh

I'd be more worried about parents who buy M rated games for their kids then complain about it later . . .

This reminds me, at the local Gamestop I bought Hitman or Devil May Cry and the person there asked my mom if it was ok first. We even had a bit of a disscussion about what was in the game. It was really cool.

A bit off-topic, but I thought I should trow that out there.

kage_rod

Sweet. Whenever someone is in the store (I work in - a comic store) buying comics, and they looked confused or have kids that they're buying for, I explain the rating system, what may be in the comic, etc.. I've found a lot of parents go "OH!". And of course, I always point them towards more kid-friendly versions of whatever they're buying.. My boss is like "Yay...someone who understands ='D". I've always had a problem with ratings and how most stores will just -sell- it no matter what... *sigh*

JukeBoxJosh

Sweet. Whenever someone is in the store (I work in - a comic store) buying comics, and they looked confused or have kids that they're buying for, I explain the rating system, what may be in the comic, etc.. I've found a lot of parents go "OH!". And of course, I always point them towards more kid-friendly versions of whatever they're buying.. My boss is like "Yay...someone who understands ='D". I've always had a problem with ratings and how most stores will just -sell- it no matter what... *sigh*

Yeah. I always explain to her everything before hand. So, for the instance of Hitman, I showed her the worst of it and told her that that ws in the game. She trusts me enough to not copy what I see, so she'll let me rent them or buy them.

So then we kinda put on a show, just to see what the people will do. And that was the only time I've ever been talked to about it.

I really wish my mom would get carded or something when I wanna buy an M rated game. I know it's not really all that "special" or anything, but it would me feel a bit better. Like the lame-o behind the counter knows what he's doing.

HungryJoe

A private business may refuse to serve anyone for any reason.

No. Not since the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Neito

Followup: He got suspended for this.

kage_rod

Yay! =D That was quickly solved - but the internetz got to it and ripped it apart first. Hahaha. That poor guy; most of the people on the internet will remember his name for at least a few years.

JukeBoxJosh

Ok, the "Score one for dumb and lazy students" already offended me. So I stopped reading.

But at least he suspended for being a dousche.

Sparkybuzzed

No. Not since theCivil Rights Act of 1964.

race, color, religion, or national origin

You're right, I was mistaken. You may not deny services based upon the above 4 criteria. But abject stupidity or irresponsible and bad parenting? Unprotected. Suck it, dumb kids.

JukeBoxJosh

Suck it, dumb kids.

Guess they won't have to, now. Although they say that they're thinking about this and making this ok, I seriously doubt it.

Sparkybuzzed

I was just pointing out that dumb kids (and dumb people as Rym pointed out in the Traffic tecket thread) have no equal protection under the law. If you are dumb, you may be discriminated against for your stupidity.

Rym

This is actually something that bothers me a little.  What is the line between someone who is just dumb, and someone who is mentally disabled?  At what point does it become ok or not ok to ridicule a person for their stupidity?  Why do people feel little sympathy for someone who just does something stupid, but much more for someone who does something equally stupid, yet has a lower overall intelligence due to neurological problems?  Is it the "he should have known better" response?
At what point does disdain for stupidity become sympathy for the troubled, or vice versa?

snookernet

I think it's the same reason why it's alright to make fun of someone who's overweight, but not because of their race. With the exception of say, a thyroid condition, they have the ability to change their weight, but someone can't choose their race (of course, I'm not implying that some races are better than others). Likewise, if someone is doing something that is stupid because they are slow, chances are they were born like that and it's not like they had a choice.

cosmicenema

I think it's the same reason why it's alright to make fun of someone who's overweight, but not because of their race. With the exception of say, a thyroid condition

So my next question is do you ask fat people if they have a thyroid condition before making fun of them?