As Scott pointed out, the problem is that people like that, who are so ignorant of the modern world, are teaching to children. The kids will never respect an educator, no matter their knowledge to impart, if they are otherwise effectively illiterate.
Not to long ago I had a good example shown to me of what an educator is like when they know nothing about technology. I was in my computer app class and we were working in photoshop. We had a substitute teacher that day and were working on a project that our real teacher had told us about the day before. It was basically to find an image and make a certain amounts of edits and such. I picked an image of pac-man. The day before the teacher had tole us that we would get in trouble if anyone was playing a game. The sub saw my image and said that I should put the game away, or I would get in trouble. I clearly stated that it was an image of a game and it was what I was working on for my project. She then got all uppity and said something like "I've worked here for 30 years, so I think I know what a game is" in a snarky tone. I then started getting really mad and showed how it was an image. "See, how it says Photoshop in the corner. See, how I am drawing on it." She just kept saying that I should just close the window and get back to work. All I could say was "Are you kidding!?" The argument went on for a couple of minutes until she said " Fine, I'll just write a note to your teacher about this" in a snarky tone. I didn't care and my real teacher knew it wasn't a game, but it just pisses me off that people like this are allowed to teach a computer class.
First, that was a substitute, she wasn't "teaching" the class, she was babysitting it. Also, she has been teaching for 30 years (I will give her the benefit of the doubt and assume that she was an actual teacher, but has since retired and is now subbing for some extra cash - if she has always been a sub, then she is a glorified nanny). Older teachers did not have to do any of their college work on computers, the new crop of teachers must have at least enough knowledge to utilize a computer. In NYS, teachers not only need a bachelors degree, certification, and their masters, but they also have to complete continuing education (x hours in y years) and a lot of the continuing education classes focus on utilizing technology to aid them in providing better content and more up-to-date teaching techniques for their students. Keep in mind that a lot of substitutes and teacher assistants are middle-aged ladies that were housewives, but need some extra cash - a lot of places do not require that they have any recent education and some do not require anything more than a cursory certification course.
First, that was a substitute, she wasn't "teaching" the class, she was babysitting it.
In my high school, we didn't get substitute teachers at all in any of the higher-level classes. In diffeq, for example, if the teacher was out, some other faculty member from the math department would show up at the start of all of his classes, tell us what was up, and leave us to our own devices. They only put substitute teachers in for the problematic classrooms, which themselves were largely in the "other" wing of the school. It was fairly awesome, and we'd usually just work as we always did, since most of those classes were primarily self-directed in the first place.
I have a feeling that if we were able to do a better job of filtering the significantly above and below average students into different tracks, we could solve many of our other educational issues. The AP classes were almost entirely self-directed, required no substitute teachers, and in some cases, no teachers at all. High level students were treated completely differently from the rest of the student body, and were largely left to their own devices. Meanwhile, very low level students were entered into special programs and given a great deal more supervision and attention. By having them all in different classes, it prevented the smarter kids from getting bored and the less able kids from holding everyone else back.
I just really liked the fact that substitute teachers were only used for the students who couldn't control themselves, and everyone else was simply trusted to behave and continue their work.
The nice thing about my school is that pretty much everyone does AP or another system similar to the difficulty of AP called the IB. Of course, there are still some students who don't pay much attention to school (very few), but I find that the majority of the students actually care about school. You can't really split the smart from the stupid, you can only split the smart and the less smart. Also, there are classes that have different skill levels, either higher or standard. A person who is interested in a subject but less in another can adequately set class skill to his level.
Also, everyone at the school has tablets. We have an IT department that knows their stuff (except the head of the department, sadly), and being technologically literate beyond most people in the school, I'm part of the official IT helpdesk, a voluntary group of students that deal with technical support. Unfortunately, the IT department has locked down most of the stuff that about 1/4 of the problems are only fixable by the IT department, and the other 3/4 of the problems are problems that pop up frequently enough to be routine.
I hate knowing the solution to a problem, but a little box pops up saying I don't have administrator privileges. One time, I had the Ethernet port disabled for reasons I do not know about, and I couldn't even access the properties to see what the problem was. The fix? Ask the IT department to log in as admin, go to the properties of the port, and click "enable". Being computer literate in a locked down environment is infuriating at times, but I understand the reasoning behind it.
First, that was a substitute, she wasn't "teaching" the class, she was babysitting it. Also, she has been teaching for 30 years (I will give her the benefit of the doubt and assume that she was an actual teacher, but has since retired and is now subbing for some extra cash - if she has always been a sub, then she is a glorified nanny). Older teachers did not have to do any of their college work on computers, the new crop of teachers must have at least enough knowledge to utilize a computer. In NYS, teachers not only need a bachelors degree, certification, and their masters, but they also have to complete continuing education (x hours in y years) and a lot of the continuing education classes focus on utilizing technology to aid them in providing better content and more up-to-date teaching techniques for their students. Keep in mind that a lot of substitutes and teacher assistants are middle-aged ladies that were housewives, but need some extra cash - a lot of places do not require that they have any recent education and some do not require anything more than a cursory certification course.
The fact that they did not have computers when they were younger is a valid explanation of the teacher's lack of technical knowledge, it is not a valid excuse. There is no valid excuse. In this world, everyone must keep up. You may have been the best teacher ever for 20 years, but now you are a bad teacher because the world has passed you by. I think that many problems in the world would be helped if we eliminated tenure and tenure-like policies. Years of experience mean a lot less when that experience is obsolete.
Learning does not stop when you leave school. A teacher should know this more than anyone. What kind of example does it set when their teachers obviously have not learned anything since they left school?
I think that many problems in the world would be helped if we eliminated tenure and tenure-like policies.
I have seen many problems in education that result from tenure, and I agree completely with Scott. Educational standards change constantly, but tenured professionals are somewhat insulated from that change. My wife is a teacher, and there is a very clear strata in her district that is congruent to age; the older the teacher, the more comfortable they are in their ineptitude. That only hurts students, and because of contracts, unions, and tenure there is nothing the educational system can do short of buying out older teachers.
There is another side to consider, however: Teachers are typically not paid equitable wages when comparing their educational level to private-sector jobs. Lisa has a master's degree and does not make a master's degree-worthy salary. At the same time, she is expected to spend out-of-pocket on classroom supplies and up-training for certification and ongoing education. More expectation and responsibility is constantly heaped on teachers, but this is not reflected come pay check time, mainly due to idiot lawmakers using education funding as a political tool.
There is another side to consider, however: Teachers are typically not paid equitable wages when comparing their educational level to private-sector jobs. Lisa has a master's degree and does not make a master's degree-worthy salary. At the same time, she is expected to spend out-of-pocket on classroom supplies and up-training for certification and ongoing education. More expectation and responsibility is constantly heaped on teachers, but this is not reflected come pay check time, mainly due to idiot lawmakers using education funding as a political tool.
And herein lies the fundamental problem. In order to have the best education, we need the best educators. The best educators cost an ungodly shitton of money. Why? Because anyone who is an amazing educator can make a whole shitton of money in the private sector. Some people will become educators just out of generosity, and maybe because they like it more, and don't care about the decreased money. Even so, that is not enough. There are so many children that we would either need huge class sizes, which is bad, or there would not be enough educators.
Let me do a fermi calculation. Let's assume that to attract an awesome person to education you need to give them $100,000. My home town has 6 elementary schools, two middle schools, and one high school. It has a population of about 35,000 people. In all those schools combined there are maybe about 500 teachers. That's $50 million per year to get actually good teachers. Divide that by the population, and that's about $1500 from each person each year. Now remember that the population figure includes children, and also remember that teacher salaries are only a fraction of the cost of school. Add on the facilities, administration, transportation, etc. You're looking at $10,000 per year per person to get quality schooling. That's a hell of a lot more than the cost of tuition to private school. Of course, that's because private schools aren't paying all the teachers $100,000 or sending out fleets of buses, etc.
For us to have an education system that everyone would be proud of, it would be more than we could afford. The same goes for health care and everything else. We can't afford for everything to be great. It's just not possible.
One thing I think we could to do help is to make teaching a little bit more enticing of a job. If a teacher is a normal teacher, let them stick to curriculum. If you've got an actual really smart person coming in, the kind who could make a fortune in the private sector, give them some freedom. Also, do what Rym says and get rid of the no child left behind. Separate the kids based on performance, not based on age. Then you could put teachers who are better with smart kids with the smart kids, and teachers who are better with less smart kids with less smart kids. This will give all the kids a better chance of maximizing their potential, while maximizing the usefulness of the teachers.
Also, bring back military academy as a viable option. If you've got one of those truly out of control kids, the kind that parents were getting rid of in Nebraska, that can be a viable option for them. Also, it should be free, and come out of the defense spending.
I think that many problems in the world would be helped if we eliminated tenure and tenure-like policies.
From experience, I can agree quite a bit. I have had a couple of teachers who probably shouldn't have kept teaching. My 7th grade English teacher comes to mind. Se once told us that there were 52 states "because of Alaska and Hawaii." And another time, while cleaning up the room ( she was also the art teacher) found random pills and one student found a mysterious plastic bag full of green stuff in the teachers desk. Plus she couldn't teach art for shit either. Another art teacher which I had freshmen year, was insane. She had what she called the "Happy Hammer" which she slammed on the desk when the class was getting to loud. Plus she was in her 80's and senile, and acted like it.
Listening to this episode many years later, you two sound like visionaries.
First of all, every classroom in my school has a smartboard, and yet fewer that a tenth of my high school teachers have known how to use them. Only my cool math teach does anything useful (he hooks up his windows tablet to one and then sits facing the class while writing stuff on it, shows videos and plots functions and such). Many of my teachers require student help to even turn them on, or set up their computer to treat it is a second monitor.
Second of all, all of the humanities departments are confused my computers. I am the tech guy on my school's litmag, (meaning a keep files organized and update a google doc occasionally), and I have to explain to the club adviser on a regular basis why not every computer can get on the school network, and how a computer that isn't connected to the Internet can't access files that were e-mailed to her. I also hang out in the English office pretty often because it is really nice, has food and is quiet. Sometimes the teachers there ask me questions about the computer that is sitting there. 90% of the time my response is one of the following "is the computer on?" "Is the printer on?" "have you tried clicking with the other button on the mouse?" or "you hit the little minus button near the upper-right corner of the screen."
Finally, the whole business about tenure of grade school and high school teachers is causing a huge problem in my hometown.
Comments
Keep in mind that a lot of substitutes and teacher assistants are middle-aged ladies that were housewives, but need some extra cash - a lot of places do not require that they have any recent education and some do not require anything more than a cursory certification course.
I have a feeling that if we were able to do a better job of filtering the significantly above and below average students into different tracks, we could solve many of our other educational issues. The AP classes were almost entirely self-directed, required no substitute teachers, and in some cases, no teachers at all. High level students were treated completely differently from the rest of the student body, and were largely left to their own devices. Meanwhile, very low level students were entered into special programs and given a great deal more supervision and attention. By having them all in different classes, it prevented the smarter kids from getting bored and the less able kids from holding everyone else back.
I just really liked the fact that substitute teachers were only used for the students who couldn't control themselves, and everyone else was simply trusted to behave and continue their work.
Also, everyone at the school has tablets. We have an IT department that knows their stuff (except the head of the department, sadly), and being technologically literate beyond most people in the school, I'm part of the official IT helpdesk, a voluntary group of students that deal with technical support. Unfortunately, the IT department has locked down most of the stuff that about 1/4 of the problems are only fixable by the IT department, and the other 3/4 of the problems are problems that pop up frequently enough to be routine.
I hate knowing the solution to a problem, but a little box pops up saying I don't have administrator privileges. One time, I had the Ethernet port disabled for reasons I do not know about, and I couldn't even access the properties to see what the problem was. The fix? Ask the IT department to log in as admin, go to the properties of the port, and click "enable". Being computer literate in a locked down environment is infuriating at times, but I understand the reasoning behind it.
Learning does not stop when you leave school. A teacher should know this more than anyone. What kind of example does it set when their teachers obviously have not learned anything since they left school?
There is another side to consider, however: Teachers are typically not paid equitable wages when comparing their educational level to private-sector jobs. Lisa has a master's degree and does not make a master's degree-worthy salary. At the same time, she is expected to spend out-of-pocket on classroom supplies and up-training for certification and ongoing education. More expectation and responsibility is constantly heaped on teachers, but this is not reflected come pay check time, mainly due to idiot lawmakers using education funding as a political tool.
Let me do a fermi calculation. Let's assume that to attract an awesome person to education you need to give them $100,000. My home town has 6 elementary schools, two middle schools, and one high school. It has a population of about 35,000 people. In all those schools combined there are maybe about 500 teachers. That's $50 million per year to get actually good teachers. Divide that by the population, and that's about $1500 from each person each year. Now remember that the population figure includes children, and also remember that teacher salaries are only a fraction of the cost of school. Add on the facilities, administration, transportation, etc. You're looking at $10,000 per year per person to get quality schooling. That's a hell of a lot more than the cost of tuition to private school. Of course, that's because private schools aren't paying all the teachers $100,000 or sending out fleets of buses, etc.
For us to have an education system that everyone would be proud of, it would be more than we could afford. The same goes for health care and everything else. We can't afford for everything to be great. It's just not possible.
One thing I think we could to do help is to make teaching a little bit more enticing of a job. If a teacher is a normal teacher, let them stick to curriculum. If you've got an actual really smart person coming in, the kind who could make a fortune in the private sector, give them some freedom. Also, do what Rym says and get rid of the no child left behind. Separate the kids based on performance, not based on age. Then you could put teachers who are better with smart kids with the smart kids, and teachers who are better with less smart kids with less smart kids. This will give all the kids a better chance of maximizing their potential, while maximizing the usefulness of the teachers.
Also, bring back military academy as a viable option. If you've got one of those truly out of control kids, the kind that parents were getting rid of in Nebraska, that can be a viable option for them. Also, it should be free, and come out of the defense spending.
First of all, every classroom in my school has a smartboard, and yet fewer that a tenth of my high school teachers have known how to use them. Only my cool math teach does anything useful (he hooks up his windows tablet to one and then sits facing the class while writing stuff on it, shows videos and plots functions and such). Many of my teachers require student help to even turn them on, or set up their computer to treat it is a second monitor.
Second of all, all of the humanities departments are confused my computers. I am the tech guy on my school's litmag, (meaning a keep files organized and update a google doc occasionally), and I have to explain to the club adviser on a regular basis why not every computer can get on the school network, and how a computer that isn't connected to the Internet can't access files that were e-mailed to her. I also hang out in the English office pretty often because it is really nice, has food and is quiet. Sometimes the teachers there ask me questions about the computer that is sitting there. 90% of the time my response is one of the following "is the computer on?" "Is the printer on?" "have you tried clicking with the other button on the mouse?" or "you hit the little minus button near the upper-right corner of the screen."
Finally, the whole business about tenure of grade school and high school teachers is causing a huge problem in my hometown.