I find it hard to believe people are ok with the bail out because these companies should have to live and die by the sword. It is the way it should be.
It feels like the American government is rewarding poorly managed companies. The 'bail out' could even prolong any depression.
This is all very surprising coming from such a strong world leading country. I hope it all works out for the best.
I find it hard to believe people are ok with the bail out because these companies should have to live and die by the sword. It is the way it should be.
It feels like the American government is rewarding poorly managed companies. The 'bail out' could even prolong any depression.
This is all very surprising coming from such a strong world leading country. I hope it all works out for the best.
The problem is that when those companies fail, it creates a ripple/domino effect that rolls over the nation. If the government allows that to happen, they are basically welcoming a full on 1920's style depression. While I agree that the companies have failed, the government has also failed to regulate those companies and the people have failed to demand that they be regulated. It is a crap ton of failure on all sides, and we are trying to reinforce a breaking dam that will wash us all away.
When I got to work today, I had an e-mail from my boss requesting that all of the Lawyers and Staff contact their local representatives to request support for the automotive bailout plan going up for a vote in Congress next week. Since our firm represents two major American car manufacturers, their failure would probably result in me losing my job. I am not sure how I feel about being asked to take political action from my boss, but as it does have some self-interest involved I did it. I am putting my resume out as soon as I get home tonight. I may not have a job next week.
Special interest groups, of course, hate this. As a state employee, my stake in this is a 5-day pay suspension and the withholding of the 3% contract raise that was already negotiated between the state and various agency bargaining collectives (CSEA and PEF). Most people, of course, are pissed off that Paterson wants to withhold some of our pay and deny us our contract raise. Personally, I support the measure, as the current budget has the state operating outside of its means.
Seriously, when did Democrats become fiscal conservatives?
EDIT: As far as the bailout, there was a slim chance that it may have worked. Of course, it hasn't, and will most likely continue to fail. As it turns out, companies really are just that irresponsible.
I wouldn't worry about it. Barack Obama is on the case!
We'll see. I want to keep my job, but American auto makers have been running on failed ideas with old technology and inflated union worker pay for far too long. EDIT: For those that do not know, this is what I am talking about.
Seriously, when did Democrats become fiscal conservatives?
EDIT: As far as the bailout, there was a slim chance that it may have worked. Of course, it hasn't, and will most likely continue to fail. As it turns out, companies really are just that irresponsible.
Just because the economy isn't awesome right now doesn't mean the bailout didn't "work". If we didn't do the bailout, we could be in the complete shitter right now.
We'll see. I want to keep my job, but American auto makers have been running on failed ideas with old technology and inflated union worker pay for far too long. EDIT: For those that do not know,this is what I am talking about.
I really want the auto makers to just go out of business, for the stated reasons. The same goes for the unprofitable airlines i.e: everyone but Jet Blue. However, if we let big companies like this go under, we need new jobs for these millions of unskilled laborers to do.
On the individual level, if someone has no skills, I can say that they should have worked harder to learn some valuable skills so that they could earn their keep. On the national level, if you have a massive supply of unskilled manual labor, and no demand, then everybody is screwed. We're definitely in a pick your poison situation. Every option we have results in major suckage. Sadly, giving piles of tax money to shitty and inefficient companies is the least sucky that anyone can come up with.
This guy is incredibly smart and sexy. Listen to him. LISTEN TO HIM!
Bah. He's just rehashing everything we've heard before. If he really wanted to be hot stuff he could try and prove a crowding-out effect in the credit market by the government. :P
Let the automakers go into bankruptcy and restructure.
Yes, they do make some mistakes (Hummer) but they also make some very good cars (Ford Fusion). Even the foreign automakers have high end cars that cost a fortune and get poor MPG..
Let the automakers go into bankruptcy and restructure.
Yes, they do make some mistakes (Hummer) but they also make some very good cars (Ford Fusion). Even the foreign automakers have high end cars that cost a fortune and get poor MPG..
I believe the concern is that GM will not survive a bankruptcy...
I've heard tell of the gov't wanting to take over 401K's and IRA's. What do people here think about this? My response is a resounding, "stay the fuck out of my life!"
I've heard tell of the gov't wanting to take over 401K's and IRA's. What do people here think about this? My response is a resounding, "stay the fuck out of my life!"
Well, it would be nice if they would give me more matching funds. Maybe give me the option to withdraw the money now without paying taxes?
The Auto Bailout is not looking good as the Republicans oppose it and the White House is fighting the movement to tap the previous bailout plan in order to direct funds to the Auto Industry. If GM, Chrysler, and Ford fail it will equal in millions of jobs lost in the US, a large number of jobs lost in Canada, and who knows how many outside of North America. While I think funds given to the industry should have major strings attached, I think it would be foolish to let them go under and turn our major recession into an actual depression. Obama backs the bailout, but the industries cannot wait until 1/20 as they have stated that they would have to declare bankruptcy and liquidate by the end of December.
While I think funds given to the industry should have major strings attached
Leo Laporte said something similar on TWiT this week: We should give them some money, but they have to make a certain percentage of their fleet all-electric in a few years.
Here's an idea. Let's not bailout GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc. Instead, let's give the money we were going to give to them to other industries that aren't pieces of shit. Let's give the money to infrastructure, trains, telecommunications, science, medical, and education companies.
The auto factory workers won't lose their jobs, they'll just switch from working in the car factory to working in a different factory. The irresponsible executives of the auto companies will be screwed as they all file for bankruptcy. Best of all, instead of manufacturing a bunch of shitty cars we don't want or need, we'll make a bunch of stuff that we could actually use, like modern infrastructure. Maybe if we stop making shitty cars and start making high tech stuff, we'll being to look like all the other modern places in the world.
Here's an idea. Let's not bailout GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc. Instead, let's give the money we were going to give to them to other industries that aren't pieces of shit. Let's give the money to infrastructure, trains, telecommunications, science, medical, and education companies.
The auto factory workers won't lose their jobs, they'll just switch from working in the car factory to working in a different factory. The irresponsible executives of the auto companies will be screwed as they all file for bankruptcy. Best of all, instead of manufacturing a bunch of shitty cars we don't want or need, we'll make a bunch of stuff that we could actually use, like modern infrastructure. Maybe if we stop making shitty cars and start making high tech stuff, we'll being to look like all the other modern places in the world.
Hear hear!
Also, I don't think the American auto industry going under is going to be as bad as people think. Yes, those people will lose jobs in the short term, but other auto makers or even other industries will buy the factories cheap and retool them. VW, BMW, Toyota, Honda, and some Korean automakers whose names escape me are all in relatively good shape. They also have small, efficient cars already designed that they sell in the European and Asian markets.
Here's an idea. Let's not bailout GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc. Instead, let's give the money we were going to give to them to other industries that aren't pieces of shit. Let's give the money to infrastructure, trains, telecommunications, science, medical, and education companies.
The auto factory workers won't lose their jobs, they'll just switch from working in the car factory to working in a different factory. The irresponsible executives of the auto companies will be screwed as they all file for bankruptcy. Best of all, instead of manufacturing a bunch of shitty cars we don't want or need, we'll make a bunch of stuff that we could actually use, like modern infrastructure. Maybe if we stop making shitty cars and start making high tech stuff, we'll being to look like all the other modern places in the world.
What other factory? You want to basically give start-up capital to new, untested companies that may or may not end up to be peices of shit or extra money to companies that don't need it rather than aid established ones whose demise would take the already suffering economy and break it to pieces? While you are focusing on the ideal you have lost sight of practicality. Also, you seem to continually think it is just the actual auto workers that will be effected. Think of all of the companies that fees the industry that have run their companies well that will lose their jobs. We are not just talking about a few hundred factory workers, we are talking about tech people, engineers, managers, human resources people, attorneys, mail workers, salesmen, etc. The market is in no shape to take this hit. Like the companies or not, it will do more harm to let them crash than it would to bail them out. Also, you keep saying these are shitty companies, when you ignore the fact that they have faced hardships that have severely weakened most auto-makers. They are worse off partly due to their own mishandling, partly because of bad contracts with unions, partly because of the oil industry which has had its fingers in the "Big Three" far more than in other auto companies, and partly because of the hit the US economy. Moreover, these executives that you are so quick to criticize are actually stating that they would work for $1.00 if it meant that the companies could stay solvent long enough to restructure. With the bailout, these companies would essentially become new companies. Any bailout would include more strings than Wall Street's bailout contained and the companies would have to completely reinvent themselves - most likely with GM and Chrysler merging and selling off some of their lines and making new lines.
Here's an idea. Let's not bailout GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc. Instead, let's give the money we were going to give to them to other industries that aren't pieces of shit. Let's give the money to infrastructure, trains, telecommunications, science, medical, and education companies.
The auto factory workers won't lose their jobs, they'll just switch from working in the car factory to working in a different factory. The irresponsible executives of the auto companies will be screwed as they all file for bankruptcy. Best of all, instead of manufacturing a bunch of shitty cars we don't want or need, we'll make a bunch of stuff that we could actually use, like modern infrastructure. Maybe if we stop making shitty cars and start making high tech stuff, we'll being to look like all the other modern places in the world.
What other factory?
That's a very good point. All factory jobs are not fungible. You can't say, "Mr. Auto Factory Worker, now you can go work in the Steel Mill." Further, those factories left working in the U.S. wouldn't necessarily have openings for all the auto workers. Mr. Steel Mill Owner has a full payroll and doesn't have room for any auto workers.
Finally, Mr. Steel Mill Owner is a dying breed. There's not that many manufacturing jobs left in the U.S. Those auto workers will be losing their jobs and they won't have anyplace to go.
Comments
It feels like the American government is rewarding poorly managed companies. The 'bail out' could even prolong any depression.
This is all very surprising coming from such a strong world leading country. I hope it all works out for the best.
I am putting my resume out as soon as I get home tonight. I may not have a job next week.
Special interest groups, of course, hate this. As a state employee, my stake in this is a 5-day pay suspension and the withholding of the 3% contract raise that was already negotiated between the state and various agency bargaining collectives (CSEA and PEF). Most people, of course, are pissed off that Paterson wants to withhold some of our pay and deny us our contract raise. Personally, I support the measure, as the current budget has the state operating outside of its means.
Seriously, when did Democrats become fiscal conservatives?
EDIT: As far as the bailout, there was a slim chance that it may have worked. Of course, it hasn't, and will most likely continue to fail. As it turns out, companies really are just that irresponsible.
EDIT: For those that do not know, this is what I am talking about.
On the individual level, if someone has no skills, I can say that they should have worked harder to learn some valuable skills so that they could earn their keep. On the national level, if you have a massive supply of unskilled manual labor, and no demand, then everybody is screwed. We're definitely in a pick your poison situation. Every option we have results in major suckage. Sadly, giving piles of tax money to shitty and inefficient companies is the least sucky that anyone can come up with.
This guy is incredibly smart and sexy. Listen to him. LISTEN TO HIM!
Yes, they do make some mistakes (Hummer) but they also make some very good cars (Ford Fusion). Even the foreign automakers have high end cars that cost a fortune and get poor MPG..
Obama backs the bailout, but the industries cannot wait until 1/20 as they have stated that they would have to declare bankruptcy and liquidate by the end of December.
The auto factory workers won't lose their jobs, they'll just switch from working in the car factory to working in a different factory. The irresponsible executives of the auto companies will be screwed as they all file for bankruptcy. Best of all, instead of manufacturing a bunch of shitty cars we don't want or need, we'll make a bunch of stuff that we could actually use, like modern infrastructure. Maybe if we stop making shitty cars and start making high tech stuff, we'll being to look like all the other modern places in the world.
Also, I don't think the American auto industry going under is going to be as bad as people think. Yes, those people will lose jobs in the short term, but other auto makers or even other industries will buy the factories cheap and retool them. VW, BMW, Toyota, Honda, and some Korean automakers whose names escape me are all in relatively good shape. They also have small, efficient cars already designed that they sell in the European and Asian markets.
Also, you seem to continually think it is just the actual auto workers that will be effected. Think of all of the companies that fees the industry that have run their companies well that will lose their jobs. We are not just talking about a few hundred factory workers, we are talking about tech people, engineers, managers, human resources people, attorneys, mail workers, salesmen, etc. The market is in no shape to take this hit. Like the companies or not, it will do more harm to let them crash than it would to bail them out. Also, you keep saying these are shitty companies, when you ignore the fact that they have faced hardships that have severely weakened most auto-makers. They are worse off partly due to their own mishandling, partly because of bad contracts with unions, partly because of the oil industry which has had its fingers in the "Big Three" far more than in other auto companies, and partly because of the hit the US economy.
Moreover, these executives that you are so quick to criticize are actually stating that they would work for $1.00 if it meant that the companies could stay solvent long enough to restructure. With the bailout, these companies would essentially become new companies. Any bailout would include more strings than Wall Street's bailout contained and the companies would have to completely reinvent themselves - most likely with GM and Chrysler merging and selling off some of their lines and making new lines.
Finally, Mr. Steel Mill Owner is a dying breed. There's not that many manufacturing jobs left in the U.S. Those auto workers will be losing their jobs and they won't have anyplace to go.