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WoW = 9/11?
Listening to episode 080207 (Sport Spectating), like many others before it, really makes me wonder something.
Why do you two drop WoW references like Giuliani drops 9/11?
I'm not about to verify this scientifically, but I wouldn't doubt you mentioned World of Warcraft more often than sports, the topic of the podcast.
Just because you have arguments against it (ill-conceived and riddled with logical fallacies though they may be) doesn't mean you should have an interest in it.
Why do you mention it so often? I'm pretty sure all of your listeners have decided one way or the other, and those of us who refuse your meaningless so-called arguments against it simply ignore the countless references, while those who blindly follow your every word have long since fallen into line.
Is there something I don't know? Did you lose someone special to the game? Did it hurt you? Did it...touch you in a bad place?
Your incessant ranting about a game which has no effect on your life is turning your show into a caricature of itself, a broken record about a topic none of your listeners want to hear you talking about, a model other podcasts should avoid.
It vexes me, because there is no other aspect of the show that is remotely similar. Sure, you bash plenty of things, but nothing with as much ferocity and bitter resentment as a simple game which probably has a far smaller player base than your favorite or most hated console games or anime series.
Please don't say that you do it just to piss off people like me. That would be worse than the most pathetic waste of your time I could imagine (far worse than, say, playing WoW).
I'm way past arguing about the game itself. You've never actually argued about it; you've stated arguments, sure, but you've never actually engaged in a logical, structured debate, and you never will.
Don't let your show become Giuliani's campaign. Find something else to compare just about everything to. There are other analogies. There are bigger wastes of time that more people engage in on a daily basis. There are fresher and more interesting references to video games, anime, and geek culture.
My god, everybody is sick of hearing your opinions on World of Warcraft, so just stop. You're hurting your show.
Why do you two drop WoW references like Giuliani drops 9/11?
I'm not about to verify this scientifically, but I wouldn't doubt you mentioned World of Warcraft more often than sports, the topic of the podcast.
Just because you have arguments against it (ill-conceived and riddled with logical fallacies though they may be) doesn't mean you should have an interest in it.
Why do you mention it so often? I'm pretty sure all of your listeners have decided one way or the other, and those of us who refuse your meaningless so-called arguments against it simply ignore the countless references, while those who blindly follow your every word have long since fallen into line.
Is there something I don't know? Did you lose someone special to the game? Did it hurt you? Did it...touch you in a bad place?
Your incessant ranting about a game which has no effect on your life is turning your show into a caricature of itself, a broken record about a topic none of your listeners want to hear you talking about, a model other podcasts should avoid.
It vexes me, because there is no other aspect of the show that is remotely similar. Sure, you bash plenty of things, but nothing with as much ferocity and bitter resentment as a simple game which probably has a far smaller player base than your favorite or most hated console games or anime series.
Please don't say that you do it just to piss off people like me. That would be worse than the most pathetic waste of your time I could imagine (far worse than, say, playing WoW).
I'm way past arguing about the game itself. You've never actually argued about it; you've stated arguments, sure, but you've never actually engaged in a logical, structured debate, and you never will.
Don't let your show become Giuliani's campaign. Find something else to compare just about everything to. There are other analogies. There are bigger wastes of time that more people engage in on a daily basis. There are fresher and more interesting references to video games, anime, and geek culture.
My god, everybody is sick of hearing your opinions on World of Warcraft, so just stop. You're hurting your show.
Comments
I really didn't notice. Nor do I care if they rag on WoW. That's their opinion. Their podcast. They are entitled to it.
Can we just end the WoW argument? Seriously. It's getting old.
Truthfully, I think it's only the WoW players that notice that they talk about it a lot. I play WoW, and I know Kenjura does too, so I think I have the right idea.
Anyway, I'm up for settling this once and for all. A big roundtable discussion where we can argue our points in real-time, and are able to discuss things as they come up instead of a post-by-post thing. I'm not really sure how to go about this, but I think Skype only allows 5 people in a discussion, so that won't work, unless that's all the interest we have in this. Maybe a ventrilo/teamspeak discussion would do the trick? We can brainstorm on this, but I think it would end the WoW argument on the forums if everyone could clearly state their stances and opinions.
Just an idea.
All I want is to stop hearing about it. I can't listen to an episode of GeekNights without being reminded of the stupid, pointless "argument" that has persisted this long without any actual debate. It's a pity, because I like everything else about the show.
It's much like the Simply Syndicated podcast, Make It So. It's about Star Trek, which I like. But they hate Enterprise, a series I really enjoyed. They bash it, and it's clear they don't really know much about it.
That kind of argument is always frustrating, but it's a thousand times more so when you cannot possibly respond, you just have to put up with it.
I don't know about others, but I listen to podcasts because it's oddly like having people around. I like talking to people, but there usually aren't people to talk to after my roommates go to bed, or when I'm walking to and from work, or driving to my class in San Francisco. For people who know Rym and Scott from real life, it's almost like they're still there.
And while those of us in that category can recall many heated and equally incensed arguments about who-knows-what, we always had the option of responding, or at least devolving into physical violence.
You don't get that in a podcast. You can either listen, or not listen.
If the show was mostly crap, I'd just not listen. But it isn't. It's almost all good. But I just can't stand these constant reminders of an argument nobody really wants to actually conduct.
I ask, what's the disadvantage of leaving the matter alone? I do, when not provoked.
Seriously, I do. That's why I'm posting this now, because I was provoked.
Why mention something you dislike unless provoked? You're just inflicting it on yourself!
Or, in this case, the hundreds or thousands of listeners who tune in hoping for some laughs and entertainment.
My mic sucks, but I would really enjoy arguing about why WoW is a bad game and one's time can be better spent.
I'm not really interested in WoW arguments, I don't feel that I have to justify my time to anyone, but hearing people act like if you weren't playing WoW you could be getting SO MUCH DONE is such garbage. Why the fuck are you typing on a message board when you could be working on an AIDS vaccine?
"I would enjoy arguing about how there are many games or other activities which are much more enjoyable per time spent than WoW, including many that also cost less.
As for being on the forum, I say that I'm a loser and an idiot who is currently in high school and unable to do squat. You're entirely right, and I should probably be doing homework instead of posting.
They should just have in the disclaimer at the end of the show that they don't like it and leave it at that.
We're actually buying a camera, and will start having regular video components to GeekNights.
So yes, in one sense, we do get A LOT done that simply wouldn't be possible if we played any game with the time commitment of World of Warcraft.
WoW players are the only group of people we get consistent and low-level anger from.
I don't have any point to make about it, though. I just note that we bash a lot of things that are a lot dearer to people than WoW on a regular basis.
Just to ruin this whole arguement thing http://www.myextralife.com/ The creators name is Scott Johnson, he writes and draws his comic three times a week, does a podcast weekly called "Extra Life radio" and a WoW podcast called "The Instance" while holding a job and a family (I believe he has two kids) and playing other games. He also plays WoW.
Remember: every single hour of every single day is already spoken for with us. Everything we do is at the expense of something else. We're constantly working on GeekNights and related projects when we're not working for a living. When we do get more free time, we usually spend it either recovering from past exertions or trying to make even more content (as with the coming video GeekNights).
I don't have time to waste playing a game that I personally feel is worthless. I do, however, have time on the show to make fun of it (and everything else I find worthless in the world). ^_~
Newflash... I have a DVR. Like you, I only watch things that aired on television that I'm interested in, at a time that I want. Yet I'm wasting time and you're not. Huh?
I do feel, however, that the majority of shows on television, anime or otherwise, are in fact worthless. I watch very little of anything.
A friend talked me into playing, we had several people on the same server. We played after 9pm a couple nights a week. It wasn't that bad, in fact it wasn't bad at all, you can play a couple hours a week and enjoy the game. At least I did. I also took a couple weekend days that I would have spent playing other games and played WoW. I had fun, I enjoyed talking to my friends while we played.
One day, I logged in, looked at what I needed to do to get the next level decided it wasn't worth it and signed off. I've not played since. I don't have any drive to continue playing. There are better games out there.
So why are 10 million people playing this game? In my experience there are a few things. First it is so easy to play, in several ways. It starts faster, loads quicker and runs better than any other PC game I think I have ever played. Steam games are the only thing that are close and they do take longer to load, and require a better PC. The game play is cake. Sure there are lots of layers, but anyone can play this game. Getting the best gear, building the best character aside, you can jump in and start playing with little or no PC gaming background. Second is community, everyone wants to be part of a community. People like to be recognized. Here you can sit in the comfort of your own home and socialize with a community. Zero effort is required to make friends and have social gatherings. Finally I think people get sucked into the game because the become to involved with the community in the game. They start to feel needed by the other players in their group. This is what people should strive for in their jobs. To be recognized for hard work in your career is a great achievement. Here you can be recognized by others for playing a game. Skill in or knowledge about WoW gives you a similar feeling of success.
There is nothing wrong with WoW as a game, up to a point. I think the sociological effects that I outlined above are the drive behind many negative connotations. To much of anything can be bad, and the simple fact is that to many people "consume" to much World of Warcraft. That is what gives the game and even the genre a bad name.
Firstly, the enjoyment a person gets out of WoW is not a universall constant. Some people don't like it, some people spend six hours a day playing and feel they have got a good return of entertainment for time spent. WoW, like all other games (save Legend of Zelda: Ocorina of Time),has flaws. The, so called, addictive nature of MMOs is anecdotally well known. Personally my friend D (short for Danny) was a very heavy player of Conquer online many years ago and it got to the point where it was beginning to severely affect his life. It was a few weeks before I asked him how Conquer was going and off handedly he said he had stopped.
Several years on and he plays WoW but it is much less of an obsession (read "addiction" for WoW bashers) and plays it in much the same way as I read through RSS feeds, it's just what you do when you have a few hours spare. There is little I like doing that I would turn down in order to continue reading news on internet but when I have nothing better to do I read and D plays WoW.
I play WoW. I have 2 70s and 8 other characters which get occasional play time.
I also have a full-time job.
I also teach a college course.
I also go out frequently with my friends, and go to the occasional party.
I also run a D&D game.
I'm also working on a new roleplaying game system. I should just use one of the ones out there, but I've never been able to. It's a hobby.
Every now and then, I play with my PS3. Or watch movies and TV on my Apple TV. I'll throw a Wii in there some day soon.
And yet, I haven't quite "run out of time" yet. I don't do a podcast, to be sure, though I used to do something very similar when I was a kid (if only I'd thought to put them online and invent the podcast...I'd be...well, neither rich nor famous).
The reason is because I, and I alone, choose exactly how much time to devote to each of these activities.
WoW does not "require" a certain amount of time, any more than any of those other activities do. In fact, it ranks lowest on how much time is "required". I'd say my 2 jobs and D&D game are highest on that list.
So, for what it's worth, one argument debunked. Or do you have a counter?
And if I have proved nothing, oh well. At least I gain a couple more pariah points. =P
Grinding numbers up isn't great. Rewarding time over skill isn't great. No MMO has come even close to the full potential. Even worse, a certain kind of MMO (the likes of WoW) has basically taken over the genre, to the point that MMO really just means grind-based leveling game for most people.