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California limits home-schooling

edited March 2008 in Everything Else
A California court has ruled homeschooling by parents without teaching credentials is against the law. Article here.

I don't think that certification makes you a good teacher, but I do agree that there are a lot of unqualified parents that homeschool their kids.

What do folks think about this ruling?
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Comments

  • edited March 2008
    If the kids can pass the state tests, then who cares if their parents are certified? Obviously they'd have to be doing well enough.
    Post edited by Sail on
  • If someone wants their children to be taught on their means then why stop them. Like Sail said as long as they pass the tests should it matter.
  • edited March 2008
    No offense, but the state tests are shit. If you think that state tests are enough to get by in this world, you are strongly mistaken. I think standardize testing is probably one of the worst ideas in education these days. We have professional teachers for a reason. If they were not forced to teach to the test I think we would be better off in terms of education. Besides, most parents are idiots, so the kids probably won't past the test anyways. This can only hurt the children.
    Post edited by Andrew on
  • If the kids can pass the state tests, then who cares if their parents are certified?
    I agree with Andrew. There's more to education than standardized tests. Furthermore, I think if you allow a lot of home schooling, you're going to end up with a generation of kids believing Jesus rode a dinosaur into Jerusalem so that he could vote the straight Republican ticket in the Jerusalem primary and similar tomfooleries.
  • If the kids can pass the state tests, then who cares if their parents are certified?
    I agree with Andrew. There's more to education than standardized tests. Furthermore, I think if you allow a lot of home schooling, you're going to end up with a generation of kids believing Jesus rode a dinosaur into Jerusalem so that he could vote the straight Republican ticket in the Jerusalem primary and similar tomfooleries.
    I know quite a few homeschoolers and not a single one of them is a Republican.

    After reading the complete text of the article it is clear that under California Law parents who choose to home school their kids MUST be accredited. The law looks to be very clear on this and was most likely designed to insure that dumb parents do not raise dumb kids.

    The only question I have (and I'm too busy to look it up right now) is just what is required to get these credentials in the State of California? Are we talking a Masters Degree or just a few college credits? Either way the home school association of California (or what ever legal body exists) has clearly done a dis-service to California homeschoolers by not informing its members about the law. The state is also at fault for letting parents register their kids in these home schools without properly checking into whether or not the parents actually meet the criteria set forth in the law.
  • I would disagree as well, but... I know several kids who are home schooled -horribly-. One dropped out before he was 15 and has major dealing-with-people issues; the two brothers can't bloody read or do SIMPLE math like addition (and they're like, a year younger than me!). It's just.. ugh. ><;
  • I would disagree as well, but... I know several kids who are home schooled -horribly-. One dropped out before he was 15 and has major dealing-with-people issues; the two brothers can't bloody read or do SIMPLE math like addition (and they're like, a year younger than me!). It's just.. ugh. ><;</p>
    Seriously? Wow. I was raised in a church full of home school families and they were brains to the high power with no prob socializing either. Then again their parents weren't complete dumbshits.
  • Furthermore, I think if you allow a lot of home schooling, you're going to end up with a generation of kids believing Jesus rode a dinosaur into Jerusalem so that he could vote the straight Republican ticket in the Jerusalem primary and similar tomfooleries.
    PLEASE remember that we're not all homeschooled for religious reasons. I'm homeschooled because my preferred method of learning flatly contradicts the public school system, and we can't really afford entry into a private school.

    Also, just because we're homeschooled doesn't mean that we are, by default, anti-social. I happen to be going to a homeschoolers' prom in April, and I have a non-homeschooled date.
  • I have a non-homeschooled date.
    Prove it with pictures, please.
  • There's nothing I can do now, because I shouldn't distribute our personal pictures over the internet. After the prom, however, I will edit this post with pictures from the website. Call me a shittalker if I don't.
  • There's nothing I can do now, because I shouldn't distribute our personal pictures over the internet.
    Why shouldn't you? If you took the pictures, the rights to them belong to you, and you can do with them as you wish.
  • edited March 2008
    There's nothing I can do now, because I shouldn't distribute our personal pictures over the internet.
    Why shouldn't you? If you took the pictures, the rights to them belong to you, and you can do with them as you wish.
    But I did not take the pictures. They're of the two of us in a photo booth at an arcade, and they don't strictly belong to me. Also, the two of us are minors.
    Post edited by ProfPangloss on
  • If they were not forced to teach to the test I think we would be better off in terms of education.
    If there were no standardized tests, where would the motivation to actually teach come from? I agree that the tests are a poor measurement of education, but I have yet to hear another practical method of keeping the education quality in check.

    To take the radical standpoint, perhaps we should just give up on the kids who can't keep pace. This way, those that are going to benefit society the most, scientists, engineers, etc., can be taught to be the best they can be while we just let the unskilled laborers("Jesus rode a dinosaur into Jerusalem") be unskilled.
  • edited March 2008
    But I did not take the pictures. They're of the two of us in a photo booth at an arcade, and they don't strictly belong to me.
    So, if I take a picture with my digital camera, does that mean that my camera has the legal right to it? I understand fully why you would not want to post a picture, but you don't have to weasel out of it in such a bullshit way.
    Post edited by Sail on
  • I'm homeschooled because my preferred method of learning flatly contradicts the public school system
    Explain how your preferred method of learning contradicts the public school system. I'm not knocking it, I'm just curious as to what your take on it is.
  • Furthermore, I think if you allow a lot of home schooling, you're going to end up with a generation of kids believing Jesus rode a dinosaur into Jerusalem so that he could vote the straight Republican ticket in the Jerusalem primary and similar tomfooleries.
    PLEASE remember that we're not all homeschooled for religious reasons. I'm homeschooled because my preferred method of learning flatly contradicts the public school system, and we can't really afford entry into a private school.

    Also, just because we're homeschooled doesn't mean that we are, by default, anti-social. I happen to be going to a homeschoolers' prom in April, and I have a non-homeschooled date.
    I am fully aware - yet another friend has excelled at her education and often volunteered out while being home schooled - but there are many parents who will just bow down and not do something because their kids don't want to do it.. I don't think California should've gone -so- far.. Maybe had someone come in and check often on the kids to make sure they're up to par.
    To take the radical standpoint, perhaps we should just give up on the kids who can't keep pace. This way, those that are going to benefit society the most, scientists, engineers, etc., can be taught to be the best they can be while we just let the unskilled laborers("Jesus rode a dinosaur into Jerusalem") be unskilled.
    Unfortunately, people all learn in so many different ways.. Oftentimes, it just takes wiggling around until they figure it out, but this means time and personalized attention, which teachers can only do so much for. Imagine a poor teacher with 30+ kids trying to do this - and that's just one of the smallest classes they have! I believe, on average, the teachers in my school have about 30ish kids in each class, and with 4 blocks.. that's 120 kids. You can't figure out each different kid's ways of learning. So, giving up on the kids who 'can't keep the pace' isn't a good idea because then you lose a lot of workers. We need them. In Canada, we're having a doctor shortage as baby boomers retire - we need as many people to go there as possible, but we also need garbage people and others who simply cannot make their way into college for whatever reason...

    It's hard to figure out what to do.. and I know as I look at my words in the above that I shouldn't be talking. I can learn pretty much in any way needed, and I'm not doing any great service to anyone: I'm becoming an animator. X3;
  • I know quite a few homeschoolers and not a single one of them is a Republican.
    Bullshit. Based on your record lately, I don't believe a damn thing you say.
    I'm homeschooled because my preferred method of learning flatly contradicts the public school system . . .
    Translation: My parents teach me that the world is 6,000 years old, it is flat, and Obama is the Antichrist.
    There's nothing I can do now, because I shouldn't distribute our personal pictures over the internet.
    Why shouldn't you? If you took the pictures, the rights to them belong to you, and you can do with them as you wish.
    But I did not take the pictures. They're of the two of us in a photo booth at an arcade, and they don't strictly belong to me. Also, the two of us are minors.
    Translation: He just made that story up. There ain't no girl like that.
  • Getting told by Gramps must hurt.
  • I am curious about what being minors has to do with it.
  • edited March 2008
    I know quite a few homeschoolers and not a single one of them is a Republican.
    Bullshit. Based on your record lately, I don't believe a damn thing you say.
    Hungry Pilgrim is a real swell guy.

    All of the homeschoolers I do know are whacked in some way but not that way. I live in the North East where even the Republicans are liberals. I would have to say that the majority of homeschoolers I know do it because of some problem their kids have dealing with social situations, problem kids so to say. They don't do it because those evil liberal teachers are brain-washing their kids.
    Post edited by HMTKSteve on
  • Fucking hell, I can't believe you've reverted to the "it's Opposite Day" defense. Grow a pair.
  • I know quite a few homeschoolers and not a single one of them is a Republican.
    Bullshit. Based on your record lately, I don't believe a damn thing you say.
    Where I grew up they were all democrats. I chalk it up to my surroundings then. It could be different wherever you guys are.
  • Honestly, I have no problems with this decision. Homeschoolers seem to fall into 2 types: 1) Crazy fundamentalist nutjobs who don't trust the system because of the war on christmas and 2) Wealthy liberals who think the system does a bad job, usually because it's underfunded (this is the sort that I know personally).

    The first should be in schools anyway regardless. The second have no reason not to be - they're wealthy enough to pay for good private schools if they want them.

    I don't know. It just seems like having homeschooling opens the way to having ridiculously uneducated people, and we as a society have, through the foundation of the public school system, made a decision that everyone needs certain standardized knowledge.

    (With that said, I would like to say that the "homeschoolers are antisocial" thing is bullshit. People who are homeschooled are just as social as they would be in public schools.)
  • I'm homeschooled because my preferred method of learning flatly contradicts the public school system . . .
    Translation: My parents teach me that the world is 6,000 years old, it is flat, and Obama is the Antichrist.
    I think he means that he has a different way, whereas most of us learn by repetition, visual, hands-on, etc...
    Honestly, I have no problems with this decision. Homeschoolers seem to fall into 2 types: 1) Crazy fundamentalist nutjobs who don't trust the system because of the war on christmas and 2) Wealthy liberals who think the system does a bad job, usually because it's underfunded (this is the sort that I know personally).
    Not always true. My one friend home schooled because of her asthma - the dust literally made it impossible for her to be at school. After all, it's a lot easier to keep their tiny apartment relatively dust-free compared to a whole school who is simply not equipped to deal.
    I'm not sure why my other .. well, they're technically associates, but anyways, I don't know why they are home schooled.
  • You're right - I'm sure there will always be exceptions. But they should be exceptions, not the rule.
  • edited March 2008
    I'm homeschooled because my preferred method of learning flatly contradicts the public school system
    Explain how your preferred method of learning contradicts the public school system. I'm not knocking it, I'm just curious as to what your take on it is.
    I have found that I learn best in a non-classroom environment. Basically, an environment that is more relaxed than the typical classroom in a public high school. I take math with a tutor, World Literature in a "book club" setting, Biology in a lab (I don't consider labs to be a "classroom environment," as they tend to be a little bit more free-form, at least in terms of the manner of teaching), and the rest online. I have found that a public schooling environment would force me to learn with the class, as apposed to at my own pace. Speaking of pace, I am at a college freshman level with half of my subjects, and bare-minimum with the others. If I were forced to conform to a grade-system, I'd be bored out of my mind during half of my classes, and completely stressed with the rest. Now, I know that not all schools are like this. However, I am happy enough with my current system that I don't feel a need to find an alternative.

    On top of all that, there's the social dilemma. Homeschoolers are not necessarily less social than typical high-schoolers, but they do have the choice, if they wish. I enjoy spending time with my friends, but sometimes I just prefer to be alone. If I don't want to see my friends, then I don't have to socialize with them out of class. I don't have to deal with seeing them at lunch, and talking to them between periods. Social time is fantastic, but being surrounded by hundreds of other people, friends of mine or not, for 7+ hours a day would just be too much.
    I'll be able to deal with college, but that's a separate issue. As I'm sure many of you can attest, college is generally VERY different than high school, particularly regarding the social life.
    But I did not take the pictures. They're of the two of us in a photo booth at an arcade, and they don't strictly belong to me.
    So, if I take a picture with my digital camera, does that mean that my camera has the legal right to it? I understand fully why you would not want to post a picture, but you don't have to weasel out of it in such a bullshit way.
    I pointed that out to refute what Apreche said prior to me:
    There's nothing I can do now, because I shouldn't distribute our personal pictures over the internet.
    Why shouldn't you? If you took the pictures, the rights to them belong to you, and you can do with them as you wish.
    I did not take the pictures, so she has as much ownership over them as I do.

    Also, I am hoping to make a particularly good impression on her (and her family) over the next few weeks, and her finding some random photos of herself on the Internet wouldn't exactly resonate positively with her family.
    I am curious about what being minors has to do with it.
    It means that she has "legal guardians." Specifically, her parents.

    -EDIT-

    Here's the link to the prom website. You can go through the past photos, and you'll see plenty of happy homeschoolers socializing with one another. Not everyone there is homeschooled, but it'd say it's a 40:1 ratio. Those who are in school are going as the date of a homeschooler, proving that cross-socializing is quite common.
    Post edited by ProfPangloss on
  • I have found that I learn best in a non-classroom environment.
    Ritalin?
  • I totally support this move. It still allows home schooling, but it's going to add a layer of screening to help weed out wackjobs.
  • edited March 2008
    I totally support this move. It still allows home schooling, but it's going to add a layer of screening to help weed out wackjobs.
    Keep in mind that homeschooling is not strictly defined as the parent teaching the child at home. I only know two families who have done that at a middle school level and beyond, and they've stopped using that method.

    There is a method of teaching that is usually called "unschooling," and it consists of the child taking classes all over the place, with or without the parent. I follow that method of learning. The only class that I take at home is math, and I do that with a tutor. Everything else is either in Riverdale, or in Manhattan. The only involvement my parents have is payment for my travel and classes.

    The problem with this ruling is that it fails to take unschooling into account. It assumes that the kids are either at home with the parents teaching them, or in a public/private school.
    Post edited by ProfPangloss on
  • edited March 2008
    The problem with this ruling is that it fails to take unschooling into account. It assumes that the kids are either at home with the parents teaching them, or in a public/private school.
    I don't see that at all. You can still be "unschooled." It just has to be with licensed tutors.

    I don't think that you should need a license. I do, however, think that you should have a minimum level of ability in whatever you teach. For example, if you're going to teach your kid high-school level math, you should have demonstrated a proficiency in the subject matter.
    Post edited by Kilarney on
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