Thanks for that, Thaed. Good you are getting a lot out of it.
I posted here because tomorrow I'm flying to South America and am almost all the way through a 900 page book which doesn't belong to me. And I'm not going to have time to finish it before I leave. I could take it with me, but that is a huge waste of space and weight for the flights both there and back. So I think I'll have to put the book on hold and take another with me... arse! I travel a lot, and a kindle would solve most of my problems, and as the books cost less would probably save me money in the long run (or, as I would be more new books, lose me money, but money isn't the most important thing here).
I think I'm going to finish reading every dead-tree book I have without buying any new ones. When I am done, if the Kindle 2 is out, I'll switch it up. Not every book in the world is available on Kindle, but enough of them are that I shouldn't want for anything. Also, the prices for Kindle books are way low. Lower than dead tree at least. And I'll still have to buy comics, but one day that will change.
I think that the Kindle versions should be even cheaper than they are now. I was ready to pull the trigger until I realized the books weren't really too much cheaper. You would think you could get books for real cheap considering the lack overhead involved.
I think that the Kindle versions should be even cheaper than they are now. I was ready to pull the trigger until I realized the books weren't really too much cheaper. You would think you could get books for real cheap considering the lack overhead involved.
Really? Some of the books I was looking at were $1 on the kindle where the dead tree version was at least $5.
I think that the Kindle versions should be even cheaper than they are now. I was ready to pull the trigger until I realized the books weren't really too much cheaper. You would think you could get books for real cheap considering the lack overhead involved.
Really? Some of the books I was looking at were $1 on the kindle where the dead tree version was at least $5.
I was pricing books I currently have in my physical collection. I only buy paperback so the price difference isn't as great as say a new release, which upon reinspection, seems a good deal. Ten bucks for a novel that just came out isn't bad.
edit: Hmm, The Audacity of Hope is 9.99 on kindle, I got it for 3.50 at Target.
edit: Hmm, The Audacity of Hope is 9.99 on kindle, I got it for 3.50 at Target.
You got a deal. A special deal is not a good comparison with the norm. Diamond Age and Snow Crash are $10 paperback. $6 Kindle. It all depends on the book.
I'm willing to pay extra for the comfort and luxury of a physical book.
The luxury of a physical book is only because screen technology isn't there yet. However, the screen technology is good enough, even though it isn't perfect. Other than that one difference, a digital book has far more comfort and luxury. Mostly it's space savings. Part of the reason I need more space in my house is because I need more walls to put book shelves against. If all books, and comic books, were digital, I would just have a tiny NAS. Having a library in your house used to be something only rich people in mansions could do. Now you can do it in a studio apartment.
I think part of the comfort of traditional books comes from being accustomed to them. I know more than one book worm who wouldn't buy a Kindle simply because you can't break the spine and turn the pages.
If all books, and comic books, were digital, I would just have a tiny NAS. Having a library in your house used to be something only rich people in mansions could do. Now you can do it in a studio apartment.
Okay, I can buy that, but I still have the issue of having hundreds of books, some of a format things like Kindle can't handle (How can that handle scans of my Transmet trades?), and having to pay for most of those over again.
Don't get me wrong, readers like the Kindle are magnificent, and I'll probably get one (eventually); however, the day when one replaces my preference for paper is far away. Although, if one day soon I can get a big one with tablet controls (maybe color, though I can see why that'd be too much to ask) that syncs wirelessly to a NAS for say, my living room, I could picture the "studio apartment library" solution being ideal for me.
edit: Hmm, The Audacity of Hope is 9.99 on kindle, I got it for 3.50 at Target.
You got a deal. A special deal is not a good comparison with the norm. Diamond Age and Snow Crash are $10 paperback. $6 Kindle. It all depends on the book.
The MSRP on said book is 7.99, so yeah, it really depends on the book as you said.
Text-to-speech feature pretty much blows audiobooks out of the water.
Only if it sounds good. Ignoring the fact that it's cheaper to just buy audiobooks to play on your mp3 player, having a good reader read the audiobook adds a lot. Having President Obama read his own book to you adds a lot compared to having a static, computer generated voice blurb out the words. So, unless that text-to-speech is absolutely perfect in every way, it shouldn't matter. The Kindle 1 already could play audiobooks, no?
Text-to-speech feature pretty much blows audiobooks out of the water.
Only if it sounds good. Ignoring the fact that it's cheaper to just buy audiobooks to play on your mp3 player, having a good reader read the audiobook adds a lot. Having President Obama read his own book to you adds a lot compared to having a static, computer generated voice blurb out the words. So, unless that text-to-speech is absolutely perfect in every way, it shouldn't matter. The Kindle 1 already could play audiobooks, no?
I saw a video for the Kindle 2 text to speech function, and it was nothing special. It just sounded like that Hawking-ish robot voice.
What I meant was in availability. From what I hear, only a minority of books get the audiobook treatment and usually audiobooks are more expensive than the book itself.
Tonight at the bookshop we solved the "second sale" problem. But I'm a bit drunk and tired so I'll post it in the morning (yeah, this post is just a reminder for me).
Ok, here's the idea. First it relies on the fact that everyone has a Kindle or other book reading device, so it isn't a solution to people buying book readers now. The idea revolves around that for every book sold by a publisher, they know it will be read by four people but they only get money for the first reader, not all the readers.
I hang out at a second hand English bookshop just around the corner called Another Country. They have a buying/lending policy like this: you buy a second hand book for however much money (3 to 10 euros), and if you bring it back to the shop you get your money back minus one euro fifty. This means that if you want to borrow the book it costs only 1.50, but if you want to lend or pass the book on to someone else you pay the full price.
A similar system could be put in place where: - You pay 5 dollars for the book new. - If you want to "give" it to someone else it costs you an extra 1.50/proportion of original price to do so. - You can give it to someone via email or in person. - Either you can pay the "giving fee" or the other person can. - If the other person pays more than 1.50, the remainder it doesn't go to Amazon/author it to the giver. - The person who has been "given" the book can now download the file from amazon/transfer it from the first Kindle. - (now a key/fun bit...) For each time you buy a book or are given a book you are only allowed to "give" it once. You can pass it to one person. - When give it to someone else it stays on your Kindle for a set time after. So a new book comes out, you buy it full price, read the first chapter, love it so much you "give" it to a friend, then you both read it at the same time, but you only have a month to do so.
This setup means you get to share the novel with a friend, and they can pass it to another, and the original price of the book can be less, because the publisher knows they can make money from re-sales, and so can the first buyer. Also it will stop one person buying the book and giving different copies to all their friends. The "one give per receive" means there is a chain of owners, and the hinderance of creating really long chains. And if really long chains are made quickly (as soon as a book is released) with people all just paying 1.50 each for the book instead of 5 dollars, the time limit means they'll either all read it at once creating buzz and immediate income, or some individual readers will run out of time and have to repurchase later. Also possible would be to buy a text version and "give" it to someone as an audio book, and they can then "give" it again as text.
Everyone happy. Except those who think all culture should be free.
While it's great that you are trying to think up a possible solution, Luke, but there are a few points that sound bad. All the problems that arise from wanting to implement a system to allow for lending and first sale of digital copies of any work is that they're digital. Duplicating anything digital is absurdly easy and cheap, especially when compared to duplicating a real physical book. Because of this I do not think that it is possible to port or update every law concerning anything physical to work with their digital counterparts. The very moment you make something digital its supply becomes infinite, which means, using old style supply-demand economics, that its value becomes 0.
Which is why in the above model it is more of a license kind of idea. It shares no rules or laws with physical objects, but the process is framed in similar terminology. The idea of only being able to "give" a property once for each time you receive it is a way to bridge the gap. Publishers and authors want to (and should) make money from their intellectual property, but readers want to be able to share it. If you want to share a work, you can, but the right to do so will cost you (or the person you are sharing it with) a bit of money each time.
I know all about digital copies with the value of zero. But I'm not addressing that, I'm proposing a business model where DRM is kept in place. The whole point is that you'll treat the DRM property as something transient, like a cheap paperback, that you'll pass on to someone else. You don't care about the DRM server lasting for every, because, like a paperback you give away, you're not concerned with it after you've read it.
Luke, your "solution" is fundamentally identical to the Zune's squirt. By using DRM you want to enforce arbitrary and artificial constraints on how people share media. Sure, most DRM out there allows no copying or sharing. Making a more lax DRM that allows sharing and copying under some circumstances isn't going to make any difference.
You said yourself you don't mind DRM on the Netflicks streaming service, because you think of it as borrowing the film for the night. That is the same kind of thing this service could be. Yes, DRM is arbitrary and artificial, but at least I proposing a system which publishing companies and authors might be happy with and that is still a situation that readers can identify with.
The solution isn't for you. It is for people like me, who don't mind DRM if it means I can get access to the latest works from authors on a reader that is a tenth of the size of the hard back copy. For me, no matter the initial DRM, getting to a point where everyone has a kindle type reader is the most important thing. iTunes had DRM and everyone still bought one. Once enough people start buying music/books DRM won't matter, or will be to much trouble, and be dropped by the publishers, like it has now been dropped from iTunes.
Meanwhile everyone can still read public domain, creative commons and free fiction. There's plenty out there.
I think the scheme akin to paying an ongoing subscription to access a private library is the only really viable method in terms of DRM. That said, if you are dealing with people working on the newer model of "people will buy things they like" then you don't need DRM and all these problem go away.
Kindle DX, anyone? Looks good for newspapers and text books.
Since I got my iPod Touch and Stanza book reader, I've not been pining for a Kindle so much. I just need to sign up to some online bookshops to get a wider library, as I've read most of the easily accessed creative commons material that I really wanted.
I don't really have that much of a problem with this whole second sale business. I love the design of the Kindle, and I really dig the E-ink technology, but the price is just too ridiculous. $360 for a regular Kindle 2, and $490 for the new big-ass DX? I'm going to have to wait this one out. It also irritates me that they charge $0.99 per month to subscribe to a blog, yet the web browser is free.
I do really like the native PDF reading of the DX though. The idea of going through the pain of converting it really irritated me.
Holy balls. I would ask for it for Christmas, but it won't be in until the New Year. Might have to buy that shit myself, as long as I can export my own files (PDFs, greyscale images [800x600 manga? YES PLZ]) to it.
EDIT: IT DOES. No Amazon file conversion, no bullshittery about MY files! I mean, I won't stop buying paper books, but oh lord if I am not getting this shit!
Comments
I posted here because tomorrow I'm flying to South America and am almost all the way through a 900 page book which doesn't belong to me. And I'm not going to have time to finish it before I leave. I could take it with me, but that is a huge waste of space and weight for the flights both there and back. So I think I'll have to put the book on hold and take another with me... arse! I travel a lot, and a kindle would solve most of my problems, and as the books cost less would probably save me money in the long run (or, as I would be more new books, lose me money, but money isn't the most important thing here).
edit: Hmm, The Audacity of Hope is 9.99 on kindle, I got it for 3.50 at Target.
Don't get me wrong, readers like the Kindle are magnificent, and I'll probably get one (eventually); however, the day when one replaces my preference for paper is far away. Although, if one day soon I can get a big one with tablet controls (maybe color, though I can see why that'd be too much to ask) that syncs wirelessly to a NAS for say, my living room, I could picture the "studio apartment library" solution being ideal for me.
Text-to-speech feature pretty much blows audiobooks out of the water.
The idea revolves around that for every book sold by a publisher, they know it will be read by four people but they only get money for the first reader, not all the readers.
I hang out at a second hand English bookshop just around the corner called Another Country. They have a buying/lending policy like this: you buy a second hand book for however much money (3 to 10 euros), and if you bring it back to the shop you get your money back minus one euro fifty. This means that if you want to borrow the book it costs only 1.50, but if you want to lend or pass the book on to someone else you pay the full price.
A similar system could be put in place where:
- You pay 5 dollars for the book new.
- If you want to "give" it to someone else it costs you an extra 1.50/proportion of original price to do so.
- You can give it to someone via email or in person.
- Either you can pay the "giving fee" or the other person can.
- If the other person pays more than 1.50, the remainder it doesn't go to Amazon/author it to the giver.
- The person who has been "given" the book can now download the file from amazon/transfer it from the first Kindle.
- (now a key/fun bit...) For each time you buy a book or are given a book you are only allowed to "give" it once. You can pass it to one person.
- When give it to someone else it stays on your Kindle for a set time after. So a new book comes out, you buy it full price, read the first chapter, love it so much you "give" it to a friend, then you both read it at the same time, but you only have a month to do so.
This setup means you get to share the novel with a friend, and they can pass it to another, and the original price of the book can be less, because the publisher knows they can make money from re-sales, and so can the first buyer. Also it will stop one person buying the book and giving different copies to all their friends. The "one give per receive" means there is a chain of owners, and the hinderance of creating really long chains. And if really long chains are made quickly (as soon as a book is released) with people all just paying 1.50 each for the book instead of 5 dollars, the time limit means they'll either all read it at once creating buzz and immediate income, or some individual readers will run out of time and have to repurchase later. Also possible would be to buy a text version and "give" it to someone as an audio book, and they can then "give" it again as text.
Everyone happy. Except those who think all culture should be free.
I know all about digital copies with the value of zero. But I'm not addressing that, I'm proposing a business model where DRM is kept in place. The whole point is that you'll treat the DRM property as something transient, like a cheap paperback, that you'll pass on to someone else. You don't care about the DRM server lasting for every, because, like a paperback you give away, you're not concerned with it after you've read it.
The solution isn't for you. It is for people like me, who don't mind DRM if it means I can get access to the latest works from authors on a reader that is a tenth of the size of the hard back copy. For me, no matter the initial DRM, getting to a point where everyone has a kindle type reader is the most important thing. iTunes had DRM and everyone still bought one. Once enough people start buying music/books DRM won't matter, or will be to much trouble, and be dropped by the publishers, like it has now been dropped from iTunes.
Meanwhile everyone can still read public domain, creative commons and free fiction. There's plenty out there.
That said, if you are dealing with people working on the newer model of "people will buy things they like" then you don't need DRM and all these problem go away.
Since I got my iPod Touch and Stanza book reader, I've not been pining for a Kindle so much. I just need to sign up to some online bookshops to get a wider library, as I've read most of the easily accessed creative commons material that I really wanted.
I do really like the native PDF reading of the DX though. The idea of going through the pain of converting it really irritated me.
EDIT: IT DOES. No Amazon file conversion, no bullshittery about MY files! I mean, I won't stop buying paper books, but oh lord if I am not getting this shit!