Here's how, I don't find the people at these McCain rallies to be a true, random sample of the McCain supporters. I think you see much more extreme viewpoints, and thus a greater cross-section of "the crazies." Most of my friends who are McCain supporters are smart, reasonable people (except the maybe the one who's afraid Obama wants his guns).
Wait... wait... wait... so you are just saying that element doesn't matter because you (with no data other than your friends) say that it isn't an accurate cross-section of McCain supporters?!?!?!?!?! It doesn't matter if they are 10% or 98% of his supporters, it matters that the reasonable supporters and (more importantly) the LEADERSHIP aren't shouting them down! What does it say about you that you are so eager to dismiss and imagine away this element. It must be nice to live in your own moral-free world. Unfortunately, your actions (or in-actions) effect the rest of us and your vote counts just as much as mine. Don't deny the problem; accept it, address it, and act to resolve it (at the very least denounce it and send some letters to your candidates/representative/heads of the party) or admit that you are morally okay with it and be painted with the same bigotry brush.
Here's how, I don't find the people at these McCain rallies to be a true, random sample of the McCain supporters. I think you see much more extreme viewpoints, and thus a greater cross-section of "the crazies." Most of my friends who are McCain supporters are smart, reasonable people (except the maybe the one who's afraid Obama wants his guns).
Wait... wait... wait... so you are just saying that element doesn't matter because you (with no data other than your friends) say that it isn't an accurate cross-section of McCain supporters?!?!?!?!?! It doesn't matter if they are 10% or 98% of his supporters, it matters that the reasonable supporters and (more importantly) the LEADERSHIP aren't shouting them down! What does it say about you that you are so eager to dismiss and imagine away this element. It must be nice to live in your own moral-free world. Unfortunately, your actions (or in-actions) effect the rest of us and your vote counts just as much as mine. Don't deny the problem; accept it, address it, and act to resolve it (at the very least denounce it and send some letters to your candidates/representative/heads of the party) or admit that you are morally okay with it and be painted with the same bigotry brush.
The Democratic party has the same fringe elements...they're just socialist instead of bigots.
Here's how, I don't find the people at these McCain rallies to be a true, random sample of the McCain supporters. I think you see much more extreme viewpoints, and thus a greater cross-section of "the crazies." Most of my friends who are McCain supporters are smart, reasonable people (except the maybe the one who's afraid Obama wants his guns).
Wait... wait... wait... so you are just saying that element doesn't matter because you (with no data other than your friends) say that it isn't an accurate cross-section of McCain supporters?!?!?!?!?! It doesn't matter if they are 10% or 98% of his supporters, it matters that the reasonable supporters and (more importantly) the LEADERSHIP aren't shouting them down! What does it say about you that you are so eager to dismiss and imagine away this element. It must be nice to live in your own moral-free world. Unfortunately, your actions (or in-actions) effect the rest of us and your vote counts just as much as mine. Don't deny the problem; accept it, address it, and act to resolve it (at the very least denounce it and send some letters to your candidates/representative/heads of the party) or admit that you are morally okay with it and be painted with the same bigotry brush.
The Democratic party has the same fringe elements...they're just socialist instead of bigots.
I clearly admitted previously that every party has its nut-jobs, but socialism isn't bigotry - it isn't hate. Also, we already have a combination of socialism and capitalism, by virtue of having ANY government owned companies and social programs - socialism is already in the mix. What, you don't want public education, roads, transit, prisons, etc.? Also, there is a separate socialist party in the U.S. They even appear with their own candidates on most ballots. Moreover, rather than address the issue at hand, you want to throw an issue at me to distract away from your lack of answering for yourself, your choices, and your party. I said that it is to be expected that ANY group will have a few bigots, but the Republicans have allowed this group to grow and be incredibly vocal. Answer for that, don't distract.
Unfortunately, your actions (or in-actions) effect the rest of us and your vote counts just as much as mine. Don't deny the problem; accept it, address it, and act to resolve it (at the very least denounce it and send some letters to your candidates/representative/heads of the party) or admit that you are morally okay with it and be painted with the same bigotry brush.
Tell them that pandering to that group and tacitly allowing them to speak for your party is not acceptable, and put your money, your vote, and your time where your mouth is. A third option is leave the party. I am not saying join the Dems, just fine another party or be unaffiliated until this religious and racial bigotry is not a prominent or vocal element of it any more.
FYI, I voted for Obama last night just like I said I would.
Okay. Now are you going to write the Republican leadership, your local representatives, McCain, Palin, their endorsers, etc. and tell them why? Are you going to be vocal and reclaim your party? Or are you just going to keep your mouth shut until the next national elections when this goes down again. I want a "modern" conservative party - unfortunately, that is the Democrats (they really are not liberal enough for me, and are closer to certain European conservative parties in some elements than they are to most liberal parties around the world). I want statesmen on either side of the aisle. I want opponents I can respect. I want a real exchange of ideas. I write my representatives (both in my party and outside of it)frequently. I have since before I could vote. When I was a kid, I couldn't vote, but I could write. Grab on to your power and use it for all it is worth, from silly internet forums, to where you spend your money, to your pen and ink (or keyboard and printer), to local organizations, to your vote, to how you raise your children, to how you do your job and what job you do, etc. Life is choice. Make the best choice you can, and if there isn't a good one available, fight to create it. Responsibility is power. Take it and use it.
Good, then why didn't you say that originally and instead draw all this out. At least you are doing something. Tell your friends (even the gun-nut) to do the same.
Good, then why didn't you say that originally and instead draw all this out. At least you are doing something. Tell your friends (even the gun-nut) to do the same.
because he can still disagree and is allowed to say whatever he wants in the forum :-p
Good, then why didn't you say that originally and instead draw all this out. At least you are doing something. Tell your friends (even the gun-nut) to do the same.
because he can still disagree and is allowed to say whatever he wants in the forum :-p
He can, most certainly. Did you read what our particular argument was about, and what he consented/agreed to? He is the one that wants to take back his party and wash the stench of bigot off his issues. I was just telling how.
Regardless of the fact that the more vocal portion of the Republican party's supporters appear bigoted, the Republican party itself is not bigoted and hateful. In a way, you should be happy these bigoted people are not voting for the parties out there that do indeed ride on a platform of bigotry. These people are actually doing themselves a disservice voting for the party that freed the slaves as opposed to the white supremacist party.
In addition, just because you check the same box as someone else, doesn't mean you have any relation to them whatsoever. You're not voting for the other voters, you're voting for the politician. Let's say for instance that some terrorists decide that they really like lolcats. Does that mean you can no longer like lolcats because some shitty people like them also? One of my sister's friends once said to me that Cowboy Bebop used to be good before everyone started liking it. As if somehow which people knew about and liked a particular thing somehow changed the qualities of that thing. It's an absolutely ridiculous position.
It is very easy for a person who is not hateful and not bigoted to support the Republican party. There anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage stances of that party are the only ones that could be construed as even remotely bigoted. Even then, while I don't agree with those positions, I could, if required, defend those positions in argument without bringing bigotry to bear.
As for the issue of hate, I have found that many democrats, including some here, have been just as hateful as the people they hate. Tolerance doesn't just mean tolerating people's gender, or race. It also means tolerating hate speech. Ever hear of disagreeing with what people say, but defending their right to say it? A lot of racist and anti-gay people have made their voices heard as of late. But to put onto them the same hate they emit would be the utmost hypocrisy.
One of the primary reasons I continually supported a position of "shut the fuck up" is because the loud majority of political speech in this country for the past so many years has been nothing but screaming and hate coming from all sides. When you hate a hater, you become a hater. And if some haters just happen to agree with you on ideas that are not hate-related, you should be glad! It means that despite their bigoted ways, they are expending some of their efforts towards something you agree with, and you should welcome all comers.
A KKK member who refuses to be on a baseball team that contains a black players is just as intolerant as someone who will not join a baseball team that contains KKK members. They may burn crosses at night, but during the day they're there to play baseball and have a good time. It doesn't mean that you agree with their racism. It just means you agree with them that baseball is fun. If someone else thinks that you support racism just because you agree with KKK members about baseball, then that person is the hateful person you avoided being.
Stand for what you believe. Your decision should not be changed based upon which, or how many, others come to the same conclusions as yourself. If you decide you like something, and then your worst enemy comes along and decides they also like it, will you change your mind. Perhaps then you really don't know what you think? Perhaps then, you don't actually have personal preferences, but you only care what others will think of you. Perhaps you are merely clay shaped by peer pressure, rather than someone who forges their own path.
Regardless of the fact that the more vocal portion of the Republican party's supporters appear bigoted, the Republican party itself is not bigoted and hateful. In a way, you should be happy these bigoted people are not voting for the parties out there that do indeed ride on a platform of bigotry. These people are actually doing themselves a disservice voting for the party that freed the slaves as opposed to the white supremacist party.
In addition, just because you check the same box as someone else, doesn't mean you have any relation to them whatsoever. You're not voting for the other voters, you're voting for the politician. Let's say for instance that some terrorists decide that they really like lolcats. Does that mean you can no longer like lolcats because some shitty people like them also? One of my sister's friends once said to me that Cowboy Bebop used to be good before everyone started liking it. As if somehow which people knew about and liked a particular thing somehow changed the qualities of that thing. It's an absolutely ridiculous position.
It is very easy for a person who is not hateful and not bigoted to support the Republican party. There anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage stances of that party are the only ones that could be construed as even remotely bigoted. Even then, while I don't agree with those positions, I could, if required, defend those positions in argument without bringing bigotry to bear.
As for the issue of hate, I have found that many democrats, including some here, have been just as hateful as the people they hate. Tolerance doesn't just mean tolerating people's gender, or race. It also means tolerating hate speech. Ever hear of disagreeing with what people say, but defending their right to say it? A lot of racist and anti-gay people have made their voices heard as of late. But to put onto them the same hate they emit would be the utmost hypocrisy.
One of the primary reasons I continually supported a position of "shut the fuck up" is because the loud majority of political speech in this country for the past so many years has been nothing but screaming and hate coming from all sides. When you hate a hater, you become a hater. And if some haters just happen to agree with you on ideas that are not hate-related, you should be glad! It means that despite their bigoted ways, they are expending some of their efforts towards something you agree with, and you should welcome all comers.
A KKK member who refuses to be on a baseball team that contains a black players is just as intolerant as someone who will not join a baseball team that contains KKK members. They may burn crosses at night, but during the day they're there to play baseball and have a good time. It doesn't mean that you agree with their racism. It just means you agree with them that baseball is fun. If someone else thinks that you support racism just because you agree with KKK members about baseball, then that person is the hateful person you avoided being.
Stand for what you believe. Your decision should not be changed based upon which, or how many, others come to the same conclusions as yourself. If you decide you like something, and then your worst enemy comes along and decides they also like it, will you change your mind. Perhaps then you really don't know what you think? Perhaps then, you don't actually have personal preferences, but you only care what others will think of you. Perhaps you are merely clay shaped by peer pressure, rather than someone who forges their own path.
When the leadership has not only allowed the bigoted comments, but courted, fostered and pandered to those bigots (both racial and religious), it is a party-wide issue.
Regardless of the fact that the more vocal portion of the Republican party's supporters appear bigoted, the Republican party itself is not bigoted and hateful.
But, what the Republican party has done and continues to do is say just enough to get the right-wing, religious, and racist nuts on board with them without directly encouraging them. The core party tacitly supports all of these fringe idiots in order to expand their own power base.
Meanwhile, the equivalent fringe on the Democratic side tends to vote Nader/Libertarian/etc, and receives no such support from the Democrats.
So in many real, palpable ways, supporting the Republican party, regardless of your reasons for doing so, supports all of these fringe elements that so many of you claim to despise. The analogy isn't liking Cowboy Bebop despite Hitler also liking it: the analogy is choosing to buy Cowboy Bebop knowing full well that the proceeds from the sale went into the coffers of the International Puppy Murder and Child Exploitation Promotion Fund.
Regardless of the fact that the more vocal portion of the Republican party's supporters appear bigoted, the Republican party itself is not bigoted and hateful.
But, what the Republican party has done and continues to do is say just enough to get the right-wing, religious, and racist nuts on board with them without directly encouraging them. The core party tacitly supports all of these fringe idiots in order to expand their own power base.
Meanwhile, the equivalent fringe on the Democratic side tends to vote Nader/Libertarian/etc, and receives no such support from the Democrats.
So in many real, palpable ways, supporting the Republican party, regardless of your reasons for doing so, supports all of these fringe elements that so many of you claim to despise. The analogy isn't liking Cowboy Bebop despite Hitler also liking it: the analogy is choosing to buy Cowboy Bebop knowing full well that the proceeds from the sale went into the coffers of the International Puppy Murder and Child Exploitation Promotion Fund.
Again, you're putting these social issues at the absolute top of your list. That's fine, but not everyone does. I'm my worried about fiscal issues and the intrusion of government on our everyday lives.
But, what the Republican party has done and continues to do is say just enough to get the right-wing, religious, and racist nuts on board with them without directly encouraging them. The core party tacitly supports all of these fringe idiots in order to expand their own power base.
Show me the videos of Republicans saying these things. Show me the things that Republicans have done in government to act on any of these racist policies. All of these bigoted things you see about Obama being muslim, or emphasizing his middle name, are things that are done by Republican supporters and right-wing media. These things do not come from the mouth of McCain or even Palin. None of those bigoted things officially come from the party itself. You blame the party for things that their supporters do and say, which the actual party has no control over.
Even then, if Republicans are so bigoted, where are the bigoted policies? After eight years of Bush, where is the bigotry to be found in government? Even with the dreaded Scalia and Robers in the supreme court, abortion remains untouched. The gay marriage issue has gone to a vote, in CA at least, and it appears to have failed. According to new articles found everywhere on the Internet today, 61% of California voted for Obama, but 52% of Californian's have voted to ban gay marriage. Claims that another Republican administration will actually turn the bigoted ideas of their supporters into policy is just as crazy as the claims that Obama will have us all wearing turbans.
Again, you're putting these social issues at the absolute top of your list. That's fine, but not everyone does. I'm my worried about fiscal issues and the intrusion of government on our everyday lives.
Exactly. Refusing to vote Republican based on this problem alone would turn you into a one-issue voter, which is generally not so great. Perhaps things other than "my party doesn't discourage nutjobs" are important to the people voting republican? They are entitled to vote based on their personal opinions and beliefs rather than what you think of as their social oblligation.
Again, you're putting these social issues at the absolute top of your list. That's fine, but not everyone does. I'm my worried about fiscal issues and the intrusion of government on our everyday lives.
Exactly. Refusing to vote Republican based on this problem alone would turn you into a one-issue voter, which is generally not so great. Perhaps things other than "my party doesn't discourage nutjobs" are important to the people voting republican? They are entitled to vote based on their personal opinions and beliefs rather than what you think of as their social oblligation.
Bit if they don't try to "take their party back" while they do it, then they are painted with the same brush as the bigots, is all I am saying.
There is hate everywhere. It isn't party exclusive. Isn't a popular thread on this forum entitled: "I hate you soooo much, Palin!"? Love that hypocrisy. Gomidog opened the thread by saying: "I hate her. Let's talk about why she sucks." At least one person in this forum ought not to be pointing fingers at intolerant conservatives. Genuine political discourse is one thing, but that comment was anything but. And Viga didn't have much better when she stated: "Yeah, the minute she hit the scene I had my middle finger up." And of course HungryJoe wasn't participating in hate speech when he said the following about Mrs. McCain:"I'm so happy we don't have to watch Cindy McCain's tense, botoxed, zombified, and drugged face for the next four years."So gracious, and just what this country needs to come together. Surely you would be offended if someone said that they were glad that they didn't have to see Obama's big nose and lips for the next four years. So why the double standard here?
You may have every reason to abhor another's political views, but that doesn't justify hate speech.
The interpretation here is sad to me. Forum members here want to demonize Americans when the signs are entirely positive. This fact is that Obama won states that Kerry didn't. Let me repeat that. He won states that a white man lost when running against a less popular candidate. He won states that were considered red states.
The evidence is unequivocal that racism and hate played a minimal role, at best, in this election. That is a great thing, and we should be celebrating. It's time for this country to stop pointing fingers at each other, and to celebrate this wonderful achievement - even if you aren't for the person who won the election.
I hope Obama does well for one big reason. I want him to be proof to the black community that anything is possible for a black person if they work hard enough. I want him to disprove the hate speech of Farrakhan and the likes. For too long, the African-American community has had leaders that have a vested interested in keeping members of the community repressed. I hope that Obama is every bit the role model that these hate-mongers have not been.
All of these bigoted things you see about Obama being muslim, or emphasizing his middle name, are things that are done by Republican supporters and right-wing media.
Here's hoping that the Fairness Doctrine will be reinstituted. That would be the death knell for right-wing media. Then maybe we could have music on the AM dial again.
Here's hoping that the Fairness Doctrine will be reinstituted. That would be the death knell for right-wing media. Then maybe we could have music on the AM dial again.
Yup. Let's get rid of Free Speech. Oh, the joy!
Then maybe we could have music on the AM dial again.
Let me get this straight. The guy who questions HMTKSteve's intelligence just made the above comment? I'm going to go hit my head against the wall now. While were at it, maybe we can go back to listening to music on cylinders.
Let me get this straight. The guy who questions HMTKSteve's intelligence just made the above comment? I'm going to go hit my head against the wall now. While were at it, maybe we can go back to listening to music oncylinders.
Seriously! We should eliminate the AM and FM dials, and use it for more wireless data.
Saying you dislike someone is not the same as "hate speech." Yeah, I am racist against a group of people called Sarah Palin. It's different to dislike an individual based on their CHOSEN opinions and behavior and dislike a group of people based on a racial or cultural trait. "I hate you sooo much, Palin" was a funny and hyperbolic way of saying I think that she has some very bad ideas and I disagree with her very strongly. I probably don't "hate" her in the sense of "want her to die" but based on her policies I dislike her views very much.
And Wow, Kilarney, you have finally returned to pick on Rym, Scott, and I again. I missed all the love, man! Welcome back.
Some people are very frustrated, pathetic, and sad. This must not be a good day for such people.
I see the level of discussion hasn't improved in my absence. I also see that the reading comprehension hasn't improved either. Had you read what I wrote, you would have read the following:
That is a great thing, and we should be celebrating. It's time for this country to stop pointing fingers at each other, and to celebrate this wonderful achievement - even if you aren't for the person who won the election.
Saying you dislike someone is not the same as "hate speech."
You didn't say that you disliked here. You said that you hated her. By definition, that is hate speech. You hate her because of her religion, her position on abortion, etc. If you don't, then you just interjected hate speech when you didn't even have that belief, which is just creepier. It might have been funny to you, but that's often how people who engage in hate speech feel.
Let's make one thing clear. It does not matter why you hate the person. Whether it's because of their race, their chosen religion, or the way they choose to hunt. The point I was trying to make is that hate is hate. Both sides engaged in plenty of it this election cycle.
There are ways to debate and disagree without descending to that level. I've been no better at it than anyone else (and other than HungryJoe who, amongst other things, couldn't pass up the opportunity for a pointless ad hominem comment in response to my celebrating the positives of Obama's election, probably worse), but I certainly don't pretend that hate is not endemic to both sides.
And Wow, Kilarney, you have finally returned to pick on Rym, Scott, and I again.
Where have I picked on Rym and Scott since my return? Surely you can stand on your own, Gomidog? And if pointing out hate speech is "picking on someone", then I have proudly picked on you.
Dislike and hate are pretty much synonyms, though. So I can dislike someone as long as I don't do it strongly?
Edit: I'm just welcoming you back! After all, weren't you the one who corrected their grammar way back when? I'm happy that you stopped lurking again.
Also wikipedia defines hate speech as follows:
Hate speech is a term for speech intended to degrade, intimidate, or incite violence or prejudicial action against a person or group of people based on their race, gender, age, ethnicity, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, disability, language ability, ideology, social class, occupation, appearance (height, weight, hair color, etc.), mental capacity, and any other distinction that might be considered by some as a liability. The term covers written as well as oral communication and some forms of behaviors in a public setting. It is also sometimes called antilocution and is the first point on Allport's scale which measures prejudice in a society. Critics have claimed that the term "Hate Speech" is a modern example of Newspeak, used to silence critics of social policies that have been poorly implemented in a rush to appear politically correct.
I was not inciting violence, intimidating, or proposing prejudicial action. I was bitching about her behavior and beliefs, not her immutable physical or mental characteristics, nor even her religion in general. If that constitutes hate speech, then complaining about ANYONE is hate speech. You are trolling.
Comments
Goddamn! I'm so happy we don't have to watch Cindy McCain's tense, botoxed, zombified, and drugged face for the next four years.
Moreover, rather than address the issue at hand, you want to throw an issue at me to distract away from your lack of answering for yourself, your choices, and your party. I said that it is to be expected that ANY group will have a few bigots, but the Republicans have allowed this group to grow and be incredibly vocal. Answer for that, don't distract.
The Republican party is in a bad way. I wish I could get rid of these people, but this election draws them out and brings them to the forefront.
In addition, just because you check the same box as someone else, doesn't mean you have any relation to them whatsoever. You're not voting for the other voters, you're voting for the politician. Let's say for instance that some terrorists decide that they really like lolcats. Does that mean you can no longer like lolcats because some shitty people like them also? One of my sister's friends once said to me that Cowboy Bebop used to be good before everyone started liking it. As if somehow which people knew about and liked a particular thing somehow changed the qualities of that thing. It's an absolutely ridiculous position.
It is very easy for a person who is not hateful and not bigoted to support the Republican party. There anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage stances of that party are the only ones that could be construed as even remotely bigoted. Even then, while I don't agree with those positions, I could, if required, defend those positions in argument without bringing bigotry to bear.
As for the issue of hate, I have found that many democrats, including some here, have been just as hateful as the people they hate. Tolerance doesn't just mean tolerating people's gender, or race. It also means tolerating hate speech. Ever hear of disagreeing with what people say, but defending their right to say it? A lot of racist and anti-gay people have made their voices heard as of late. But to put onto them the same hate they emit would be the utmost hypocrisy.
One of the primary reasons I continually supported a position of "shut the fuck up" is because the loud majority of political speech in this country for the past so many years has been nothing but screaming and hate coming from all sides. When you hate a hater, you become a hater. And if some haters just happen to agree with you on ideas that are not hate-related, you should be glad! It means that despite their bigoted ways, they are expending some of their efforts towards something you agree with, and you should welcome all comers.
A KKK member who refuses to be on a baseball team that contains a black players is just as intolerant as someone who will not join a baseball team that contains KKK members. They may burn crosses at night, but during the day they're there to play baseball and have a good time. It doesn't mean that you agree with their racism. It just means you agree with them that baseball is fun. If someone else thinks that you support racism just because you agree with KKK members about baseball, then that person is the hateful person you avoided being.
Stand for what you believe. Your decision should not be changed based upon which, or how many, others come to the same conclusions as yourself. If you decide you like something, and then your worst enemy comes along and decides they also like it, will you change your mind. Perhaps then you really don't know what you think? Perhaps then, you don't actually have personal preferences, but you only care what others will think of you. Perhaps you are merely clay shaped by peer pressure, rather than someone who forges their own path.
Meanwhile, the equivalent fringe on the Democratic side tends to vote Nader/Libertarian/etc, and receives no such support from the Democrats.
So in many real, palpable ways, supporting the Republican party, regardless of your reasons for doing so, supports all of these fringe elements that so many of you claim to despise. The analogy isn't liking Cowboy Bebop despite Hitler also liking it: the analogy is choosing to buy Cowboy Bebop knowing full well that the proceeds from the sale went into the coffers of the International Puppy Murder and Child Exploitation Promotion Fund.
Even then, if Republicans are so bigoted, where are the bigoted policies? After eight years of Bush, where is the bigotry to be found in government? Even with the dreaded Scalia and Robers in the supreme court, abortion remains untouched. The gay marriage issue has gone to a vote, in CA at least, and it appears to have failed. According to new articles found everywhere on the Internet today, 61% of California voted for Obama, but 52% of Californian's have voted to ban gay marriage. Claims that another Republican administration will actually turn the bigoted ideas of their supporters into policy is just as crazy as the claims that Obama will have us all wearing turbans.
You may have every reason to abhor another's political views, but that doesn't justify hate speech.
The interpretation here is sad to me. Forum members here want to demonize Americans when the signs are entirely positive. This fact is that Obama won states that Kerry didn't. Let me repeat that. He won states that a white man lost when running against a less popular candidate. He won states that were considered red states.
The evidence is unequivocal that racism and hate played a minimal role, at best, in this election. That is a great thing, and we should be celebrating. It's time for this country to stop pointing fingers at each other, and to celebrate this wonderful achievement - even if you aren't for the person who won the election.
I hope Obama does well for one big reason. I want him to be proof to the black community that anything is possible for a black person if they work hard enough. I want him to disprove the hate speech of Farrakhan and the likes. For too long, the African-American community has had leaders that have a vested interested in keeping members of the community repressed. I hope that Obama is every bit the role model that these hate-mongers have not been.
And Wow, Kilarney, you have finally returned to pick on Rym, Scott, and I again. I missed all the love, man! Welcome back.
Let's make one thing clear. It does not matter why you hate the person. Whether it's because of their race, their chosen religion, or the way they choose to hunt. The point I was trying to make is that hate is hate. Both sides engaged in plenty of it this election cycle.
There are ways to debate and disagree without descending to that level. I've been no better at it than anyone else (and other than HungryJoe who, amongst other things, couldn't pass up the opportunity for a pointless ad hominem comment in response to my celebrating the positives of Obama's election, probably worse), but I certainly don't pretend that hate is not endemic to both sides.
Edit: I'm just welcoming you back! After all, weren't you the one who corrected their grammar way back when? I'm happy that you stopped lurking again.
Also wikipedia defines hate speech as follows: I was not inciting violence, intimidating, or proposing prejudicial action. I was bitching about her behavior and beliefs, not her immutable physical or mental characteristics, nor even her religion in general. If that constitutes hate speech, then complaining about ANYONE is hate speech. You are trolling.