I don't see it a right to privacy issue. I see it more as a personal choice.
The political and social climate was different in 1973. Back then it was very likely seen as an issue of privacy due in part to the stigma associated with the operation. Today? Meh, if you don't want to be a parent I see no reason to force you to be one.
Scott: If judicial review is used strictly to give laws a thumbs up or thumbs down I'm cool with that. My concern is when the court interprets a law in such a way as to grant more power to the government or take away the rights of the governed instead of simply affirming it or throwing it out. Example: Dred Scott v. Sandford case of 1856. Upon entering a state where slavery is illegal he should have been immediately removed from the shackles of slavery if he so chose.
"I don't see it a right to privacy issue. I see it more as a personal choice." - Now you're arguing for the sake of argument. Personal choice is tantamount to privacy.
As for Scott, if you're so concerned with Government taking away the rights of the governed why aren't you concerned about Scott's owner losing his property?
As forScott, if you're so concerned with Government taking away the rights of the governed why aren't you concerned about Scott's owner losing his property?
"I don't see it a right to privacy issue. I see it more as a personal choice." - Now you're arguing for the sake of argument. Personal choice is tantamount to privacy.
As forScott, if you're so concerned with Government taking away the rights of the governed why aren't you concerned about Scott's owner losing his property?
Because I do not believe a person can be the property of another person. Scott's claim to freedom far outweighs his owners claim of property.
As forScott, if you're so concerned with Government taking away the rights of the governed why aren't you concerned about Scott's owner losing his property?
Because I do not believe a person can be the property of another person. Scott's claim to freedom far outweighs his owners claim of property. Then you've just shown how the Constitution can be a living document. Isn't it "scary"?
As forScott, if you're so concerned with Government taking away the rights of the governed why aren't you concerned about Scott's owner losing his property?
Because I do not believe a person can be the property of another person. Scott's claim to freedom far outweighs his owners claim of property.
Then you've just shown how the Constitution can be a living document.
I STILL don't see why this is "Bad News for Democrats".
All of the above dialogue was about why a "living Constitution" should not scare anyone. So if Obama says he favors a "living Constitution", why is it "Bad News for Democrats"?
I STILL don't see why this is "Bad News for Democrats".
The bad news was the senate Majority Leader saying "oil makes us sick, coal makes us sick". Yes, eating the stuff will make you sick but using it to create things does not make you sick. If not for oil would we have plastics?
I would say the advances we have achieved from harnessing the power of coal and oil far outweigh the negatives. Is it time to move onto cleaner forms of energy? Sure! Will high oil prices help that happen? Sure! Should we just scrap oil production to force people into the new cleaner technologies? No.
Even OPEC has begun to acknowledge their fears that a high oil price will lead people away from oil and into the arms of cheaper and greener fuels. If it were feasible I would build a windmill or install solar panels. If my basement were not damp I would use an air circulation system to move the cool basement air into the warmer upper floor of my house rather than run AC. If I did it now I'd have hell to pay in regards to allergies!
If it were cost-effective for me to change over to a more fuel efficient vehicle I would. As it is I live in New England and I need my Subaru for when the weather turns bad. I used to drive a GEO Metro! The car I have now gets 25MPG and it is paid for. Why would I want to turn around and trade it in (along with $15K+) for a new car?
The bad news for Democrats is that Americans are becoming more interested in cheap gas than the environment. If, come November, gas prices are still high and they see a choice of McCain=cheap gas or Obama=expensive gas we might see McCain win.
I STILL don't see why this is "Bad News for Democrats".
The bad news was the senate Majority Leader saying "oil makes us sick, coal makes us sick". Yes, eating the stuff will make you sick but using it to create things does not make you sick. If not for oil would we have plastics?
See my first post. Coal does indeed make people sick. Oil is indeed dirty. There have been uses for coal and oil, but we should use alternatives and seek out new alternatives. I don't understand why you seem to be so stuck on oil.
But, finally, I just can't see why this is "Bad News for Democrats". In the "Bad News for Republicans" thread, we discussed how Republicans were losing off year elections in districts they thought were safe. Now that's bad news. If you want to post some terrible poll numbers for Obama, that might be bad news. However, I posted on the first page of this thread the July poll numbers, and it looks like very, very good news for Democrats.
The bad news for Democrats is that Americans are becoming more interested in cheap gas than the environment. If, come November, gas prices are still high and they see a choice of McCain=cheap gas or Obama=expensive gas we might see McCain win.
How did that Everley Brothers song go? "Dreeeeam, Dream, Dream, Dream". I don't think anyone will vote for McCain because they think he will bring low gas prices.
1) You can't end poverty. Just look at the poverty level in the USA compared to other countries. How many poor people in Africa have cars, TVs, AC, etc...?
2) Cure for Cancer? That research has been ongoing for quite some time and no President would be able to take credit for it.
3) Peace to the Middle East? Would it be a lasting peace or just a lull in the hostilities?
4) The economy of a decade ago? You mean the Internet bubble? The main thing killing the economy right now is the price of oil which is due in part to the crappy value of the dollar and Democrats not allowing for more drilling in the USA for oil. All of the existing wells will run dry in the future so we need to begin to get new wells dug before that happens. When you notice the milk jug in your fridge is half empty do you wait until it is empty to buy more or do you buy the next jug before you run out?
Blagojevich Harris were arrested at their homes this morning in a probe involving the governor's quest to fill Sen. Barack Obama's open Senate seat and focusing on wire fraud and bribery charges.
Meanwhile, President-elect Barack Obama said he never knew the governor was trying to shake him down.
"I had no contact with the governor or his office so I was not aware of what was happening and, as I said, it was a sad day for Illinois," Obama said.
"Like the rest of the people of Illinois, I am saddened and sobered by the news coming out of the U.S. Attorney's office. But as this is an ongoing investigation involving the governor's office, I don't think it would be appropriate for me to comment at this time."
Blagojevich and Harris were arrested at their homes this morning in a probe involving the governor’s quest to fill Sen. Barack Obama’s open Senate seat and focusing on wire fraud and bribery charges.
The charges also include alleged attempts by the governor to influence the Tribune editorial board, threatening, that if the Tribune didn’t support him, he wouldn’t approve the sale of Wrigley Field.
This morning, David Axelrod appeared on Fox Chicago Sunday and had some notable remarks on both the local and national fronts. He said that President-elect Barack Obama plans to stay out of Prairie State politics once in the White House and doesn't plan on being "a kingmaker or boss here in Illinois." When co-host Dane Placko asked him about the vacant U.S. Senate seat, Axelrod disclosed that the Obama has spoken to Gov. Blagojevich about his replacement.
Mr Obama said that he was “saddened and sobered†by the allegation, but insisted he had never discussed his Senate seat with the governor.
“I had no contact with the governor or his office and so I was not aware of what was happening. But as I said it is a sad day for Illinois.â€ÂÂ
However, David Axelrod, Mr Obama's senior advisor, told Fox News on November 23 that the president-elect had spoken to Mr Blagojevic about the choice of his successor in the Senate.
"I know he's talked to the governor and there are a whole range of names many of which have surfaced, and I think he has a fondness for a lot of them," Mr Axelrod said.
I'm not going to call Obama out for lying because his statement about not talking to the governor and Axelrod's statement in November are not necessarily at odds. He may have talked to the governor only once in November and then not spoken to him again. However I have the news on in the background and a reporter has just stated that the Obama campaign now says that Axelrod misspoke back in November...
We will not know just how deep this goes (could just be the gov and his CoS) until the full details are released. I have also not heard how far back the wire taps go.
I am greatly concerned about the issue with the Chicago Tribune.
"The tapes reveal a two-term governor who no longer wants his job, badly wants cash and is determined to leverage a financial benefit out of his appointment powers.
He also appears to think little of the president-elect, whom he calls a “motherfucker†at one point.
“Fuck him,†Blagjoveich says of Obama during a lengthy call with top aides and his wife recorded on November 10th, “For nothing? Fuck him.â€
In another section of the complaint, Blagojevich expresses exasperation that Obama and his team aren’t willing to offer him an inducement in exchange for appointing an aide, apparently Valerie Jarrett, to the Senate.
Blagojevich “said he knows that the President-elect wants Senate Candidate 1 for the Senate seat but ‘they’re not willing to give me anything except appreciation. Fuck them,’†says the complaint.
From the Huffington Post:
The governor, accused of seeking cash for the political appointment of Obama’s Senate replacement, is not a close associate of the President-elect. Indeed, in the affidavit, Blagojevich called Obama a “motherfucker†for wanting him to appoint an official that the governor either did not like or wouldn’t receive money from. Local news reports, meanwhile, suggest that it was Obama chief-of-staff Rahm Emanuel who blew the whistle on the governor.
This is “a new low,†said U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald, discussing the arrest on Tuesday. “The conduct would make Lincoln roll over in his grave.â€"
Yeah, this speaks well for Obama's integrity. It's pretty hard to see how this is "bad news for democrats" when, if anything, this makes Obama look better than ever.
In fact, I still say that this thread is the most poorly named thread on the board. I have yet to see how it contains any "bad news for democrats" at all.
I have no doubt Obama was not involved in the "selling" of his Senate seat. I do believe he talked to the gov about his replacement and from what the gov said it sounds like they did talk about it.
I just find it curious that Axelrod said Obama had talked to the gov about his replacement while Obama says he did not talk to the gov and his campaign said Axelrod misspoke.
I have no doubt Obama was not involved in the "selling" of his Senate seat. I do believe he talked to the gov about his replacement and from what the gov said it sounds like they did talk about it.
I just find it curious that Axelrod said Obama had talked to the gov about his replacement while Obama says he did not talk to the gov and his campaign said Axelrod misspoke.
Well if they did then they probably will have a wiretapped conversation about it.
I just find it curious that Axelrod said Obama had talked to the gov about his replacement while Obama says he did not talk to the gov and his campaign said Axelrod misspoke.
It's easy to misspeak about a conversation someone else may have had; that's not very curious. Now, ignoring the potential cause of death for thousands...that's worthy of my curiosity.
I just find it curious that Axelrod said Obama had talked to the gov about his replacement while Obama says he did not talk to the gov and his campaign said Axelrod misspoke.
If I were Obama, I'd want to get as far away from that bullshit as possible, on the off chance that someone try to make something out of nothing. Standard political maneuvering, as far as I see.
That governor is just blatantly corrupt though. Good thing he was ousted.
Even if they did not literally speak to each other about who would replace Obama I have no doubt that Obama communicated his feelings on the matter to the governor in some indirect manner (staffer/mutal friend/etc.). Does that sound like a fair statement? The fact that the gov became so irate after learning that Obama would not play along leads me to believe there had to be some form of communication channel between the two.
The following is from the second article and perfectly reflects my feelings on what Obama said on camera:
Slate's John Dickerson writes, Obama saying "I was not aware of what was happening" is "so vague as to be nearly meaningless" and "can mean anything you want it to. It can mean you weren't aware of anything relating to the Senate seat, or that you weren't aware the governor was trying to sell the Senate seat, or that you weren't aware the governor was under federal investigation for trying to sell the Senate seat. ..Was Obama purposefully trying to be unclear? It's hard to say. It's a little hard to believe that he didn't know anything that was happening relating to his old seat."
The fact that the gov became so irate after learning that Obama would not play along leads me to believe there had to be some form of communication channel between the two.
I've lived in Illinois my entire life, and I can tell you that that assumption is complete bullshit. The people that run this state, regardless of whether or not people approve of them (Dick Daley) or not (Rod Blagojevich), are so unbelievably corrupt as to invoke images of old noir movies just THINKING about them. Feel free to think that there may have been some "communication channel" if you want, but I am willing to bet that it's just Rod Blagojevich gearing up to try and take someone down with him. Illinois has been watching for years as Obama slowly attempted to distance himself from Blagojevich, really getting moving six months ago. He was the only Democratic governor forbidden to speak at the DNC. Obama has refused contributions from him, if I recall correctly. Do the math: as much as Rod Blagojevich WANTS a connection, there is none.
Yeah, this speaks well for Obama's integrity. It's pretty hard to see how this is "bad news for democrats" when, if anything, this makes Obama look better than ever.
In fact, I still say that this thread is the most poorly named thread on the board. I have yet to see how it contains any "bad news for democrats" at all.
The governor of Illinois is a Democrat. Surely this is bad news for him.
I was most shocked to hear that, according to tonight's evening news, they were prepared to sell the senate seat for only a million dollars. That seems scarily low to me.
Yeah, this speaks well for Obama's integrity. It's pretty hard to see how this is "bad news for democrats" when, if anything, this makes Obama look better than ever.
In fact, I still say that this thread is the most poorly named thread on the board. I have yet to see how it contains any "bad news for democrats" at all.
The governor of Illinois is a Democrat. Surely this is bad news for him.
Maybe it's bad for one democrat in particular, but I think it wouldn't be news that he's corrupt. Perhaps the title of the thread should be, "I finally found something bad about one particular democrat, but I still can't prove anything bad about Obama."
Why would he smell of anything else? Only a total moon-bat would think Obama had any sort of illegal involvement in this.
GOP Finds an Unlikely New Hero in Louisiana. Never thought I'd see a Republican representing New Orleans in the House. When Jefferson won re-election in 2006 I figured he was undefeatable.
I just woke up from a strange dream. In it, Jefferson and Adams were kicking the asses of the Bush Administration, Clockwork Orange-mob-fight-scene style. It was pretty awesome. Jefferson is a badass.
One source confirmed that communications between Emanuel and the Blagojevich administration were captured on court-approved wiretaps.
What kind of administration are we going to get in January when the President is not aware of what his Chief of Staff is doing or who he is talking to?
One source confirmed that communications between Emanuel and the Blagojevich administration were captured on court-approved wiretaps. What kind of administration are we going to get in January when the President is not aware of what his Chief of Staff is doing or who he is talking to?
If the chief of staff reports every conversation, he's not fulfilling his role as a filter. If Obama said that none of his subordinates spoke with Blagojevich at all, he was mistaken, but I remember him as saying that his subordinates were not involved in conspiring to sell his vacant seat.
No, a person's actions cannot make up for their continued and loudly spoken hatred. A member of the KKK may do wonderful charity work, but he is still a racist and should be denounced. The same applies here.
Comments
As for Scott, if you're so concerned with Government taking away the rights of the governed why aren't you concerned about Scott's owner losing his property?
Then you've just shown how the Constitution can be a living document. Isn't it "scary"?
All of the above dialogue was about why a "living Constitution" should not scare anyone. So if Obama says he favors a "living Constitution", why is it "Bad News for Democrats"?
I would say the advances we have achieved from harnessing the power of coal and oil far outweigh the negatives. Is it time to move onto cleaner forms of energy? Sure! Will high oil prices help that happen? Sure! Should we just scrap oil production to force people into the new cleaner technologies? No.
Even OPEC has begun to acknowledge their fears that a high oil price will lead people away from oil and into the arms of cheaper and greener fuels. If it were feasible I would build a windmill or install solar panels. If my basement were not damp I would use an air circulation system to move the cool basement air into the warmer upper floor of my house rather than run AC. If I did it now I'd have hell to pay in regards to allergies!
If it were cost-effective for me to change over to a more fuel efficient vehicle I would. As it is I live in New England and I need my Subaru for when the weather turns bad. I used to drive a GEO Metro! The car I have now gets 25MPG and it is paid for. Why would I want to turn around and trade it in (along with $15K+) for a new car?
The bad news for Democrats is that Americans are becoming more interested in cheap gas than the environment. If, come November, gas prices are still high and they see a choice of McCain=cheap gas or Obama=expensive gas we might see McCain win.
But, finally, I just can't see why this is "Bad News for Democrats". In the "Bad News for Republicans" thread, we discussed how Republicans were losing off year elections in districts they thought were safe. Now that's bad news. If you want to post some terrible poll numbers for Obama, that might be bad news. However, I posted on the first page of this thread the July poll numbers, and it looks like very, very good news for Democrats. How did that Everley Brothers song go? "Dreeeeam, Dream, Dream, Dream". I don't think anyone will vote for McCain because they think he will bring low gas prices.
I'm not going to call Obama out for lying because his statement about not talking to the governor and Axelrod's statement in November are not necessarily at odds. He may have talked to the governor only once in November and then not spoken to him again. However I have the news on in the background and a reporter has just stated that the Obama campaign now says that Axelrod misspoke back in November...
We will not know just how deep this goes (could just be the gov and his CoS) until the full details are released. I have also not heard how far back the wire taps go.
I am greatly concerned about the issue with the Chicago Tribune.
He also appears to think little of the president-elect, whom he calls a “motherfucker†at one point.
“Fuck him,†Blagjoveich says of Obama during a lengthy call with top aides and his wife recorded on November 10th, “For nothing? Fuck him.â€
In another section of the complaint, Blagojevich expresses exasperation that Obama and his team aren’t willing to offer him an inducement in exchange for appointing an aide, apparently Valerie Jarrett, to the Senate.
Blagojevich “said he knows that the President-elect wants Senate Candidate 1 for the Senate seat but ‘they’re not willing to give me anything except appreciation. Fuck them,’†says the complaint.
From the Huffington Post:
The governor, accused of seeking cash for the political appointment of Obama’s Senate replacement, is not a close associate of the President-elect. Indeed, in the affidavit, Blagojevich called Obama a “motherfucker†for wanting him to appoint an official that the governor either did not like or wouldn’t receive money from. Local news reports, meanwhile, suggest that it was Obama chief-of-staff Rahm Emanuel who blew the whistle on the governor.
This is “a new low,†said U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald, discussing the arrest on Tuesday. “The conduct would make Lincoln roll over in his grave.â€"
Seems Obama didn't want to get rolled.
In fact, I still say that this thread is the most poorly named thread on the board. I have yet to see how it contains any "bad news for democrats" at all.
I just find it curious that Axelrod said Obama had talked to the gov about his replacement while Obama says he did not talk to the gov and his campaign said Axelrod misspoke.
It's easy to misspeak about a conversation someone else may have had; that's not very curious. Now, ignoring the potential cause of death for thousands...that's worthy of my curiosity.
That governor is just blatantly corrupt though. Good thing he was ousted.
Questions Arise About the Obama/Blagojevich Relationship
Obama's Answer on Blagojevich -- and the Questions it Raises
The following is from the second article and perfectly reflects my feelings on what Obama said on camera:
In conclusion:
I was most shocked to hear that, according to tonight's evening news, they were prepared to sell the senate seat for only a million dollars. That seems scarily low to me.
Interesting.
GOP Finds an Unlikely New Hero in Louisiana. Never thought I'd see a Republican representing New Orleans in the House. When Jefferson won re-election in 2006 I figured he was undefeatable.