Oh, there has been mac malware for a long time. Nothing new under the sun. Except: Does this one get in by a trojan, like the windows one? That was my first (and so far only virus, gotten through my NOT UPDATING FREAKING ADOBE PDF READER) and it was hella annoying. As soon as I saw the thing that popped up and said "You have viruses! OMG give us your money so we can save you!1!!" I was like "Hell yeah I have a malware, and it's you!" Got rid of that pretty quickly with a USB of Malware Bytes, but it made me so mad to think that there were little old ladies who have fallen for that.
That's one of my favorite malware, the fake anti-virus virus scanner.. Oh the stories I have... Where people get them I have no idea, but I have to clean it off a computer at work about 3 or 4 times a month.
It's a trojan with an exe that runs automatically, somehow bypassing all the confirmation passwords and stuff I have set up for downloading and running executables, so it's actually a fairly aggressive virus. I believe I opened an infected file in the browser that pretended to be a pokemon chart image, perhaps a pdf, which is what happened directly before the thing popped up. It's really easy to tell when you get it. Microsoft defender scan the day before, all clean, then fake OMG DEFENDAR pops up immediately after clicking on Pokemans.
I thought I set up EXE files not to do that, though.
You might have. That wasn't a comment at any individual, just Apple. Who the hell at Apple even thought that option, and it's related features for it to actually do something that can be disabled, was a good idea? It just works? It just bit you in the arse Apple.
Umm, that price comparison is utter crap. I don't want to go into the analysis I made several months ago right now (sadly it's not on this forum), but a Mac Pro is within a couple hundred bucks of a similarly equipped Dell of the same line with the same equipment, and sometimes comes in a bit cheaper.
Now building your own will come in cheaper, but that's standard for almost anything -- whether it's a Dell or Apple or whatnot.
Apple does overcharge up the wazoo for their lower-end lines, but their high-end lines are pretty close to other manufacturer's similar high-end lines.
You may have to look harder for compatible parts, sometimes, but most of them aren't cheap and some of them (hard drives) are identical. I've used hard drives I purchased on New Egg on my Macs with no problem. Similarly, I had to purchase a USB 2.0 PCI card for an older Mac (PowerPC even) that only had 1.0 and it only cost me about $20 online. RAM? Bought it on Crucial.com for the same price as regular PC RAM (even for my PowerPC Mac). I do give you that video cards are ridiculously expensive on the Mac though.
Yeah, but in build quality, high end Dell, Lenovo, other regular manufactures and Apple products are about the same. Has anyone tried using a low end Dell? It is a horrible experience, shit keyboard, dirt magnet body and obtrusive drivers for even the trackpad.
I just got a Lenovo X220 with all the fixins for about $1200. It doesn't have discrete graphics, but it beats Apple just about everywhere else. It weighs 2.5lbs or so, and I've been consistently getting 10-12 hours out of the battery. The comparable MacBook Air, a 13" with the 256GB HD, starts at $1600.
Yeah, fuck you, Apple.
EDIT: Full disclosure, I had a student discount, but the comparison would still make an inferior MacBook Air more expensive. And I will give Apple this: their devices are immensely user-friendly, and I recommend them to people who both have the money and are not experienced with computers. However, I also offer to build them a Hackintosh for a lot less.
Umm, that price comparison is utter crap. I don't want to go into the analysis I made several months ago right now (sadly it's not on this forum), but a Mac Pro is within a couple hundred bucks of a similarly equipped Dell of the same line with the same equipment, and sometimes comes in a bit cheaper.
Also, Yes, if you build it yourself, it'll be cheaper. However, that's not a valid argument when you consider that, for example, If I was to get my current computer, which I built myself, as a pre-build, it would cost me a few hundred bucks more - I can pick up a comparable system with a few extras(for example, some speakers, keyboard and mouse, and Windows 7 Ultimate OEM) for $1500, and my computer plus monitor set me back a bit over $800. The comparable Mac pro is $6208. That's a lovely big round number, isn't it? Let's roll it over our tongues again - Six thousand, two hundred and eight Dollars. Compared to $850 and change. To be fair, the monitor is bigger - 27 inches to my 25 - The processor isn't quite as quick, and there was no option to ditch the mouse and keyboard. Also, I didn't include the apple care plan, even though all but a few parts in my computer have a warranty, both from the distributor and the manufacturer, but I call that not hugely relevant.
Yes, It's natural that a home-build is going to be cheaper than a pre-built system - but the fact that(to use my own example) a pre-built mac-pro spec'ed up to match a middle-to-high end home-build cost several THOUSAND more is insane.
Umm, that price comparison is utter crap. I don't want to go into the analysis I made several months ago right now (sadly it's not on this forum), but a Mac Pro is within a couple hundred bucks of a similarly equipped Dell of the same line with the same equipment, and sometimes comes in a bit cheaper.
No, I actually went to Apple's website and Dell's website and did my own analysis/comparison. I did my best to match a Mac Pro configuration to one from Dell's Precision line, which is the Dell line that (at the time, I haven't checked recently) lines up with/competes with the Mac Pro the best -- high end, professional workstations (which is the market the Mac Pro is targeted for). This was several months ago and I mostly just threw out a few tweets on my twitter account to compare the prices. However, I agree that this particular link doesn't have the best methodology -- I don't think the poster did quite as good a job as I did in trying to match up specs (i.e. different VRAM on the video card, cost of a printer, not necessarily matching up the appropriate lines, including software that probably shouldn't be included in the price, etc.).
Also, Yes, if you build it yourself, it'll be cheaper. However, that's not a valid argument when you consider that, for example, If I was to get my current computer, which I built myself, as a pre-build, it would cost me a few hundred bucks more - I can pick up a comparable system with a few extras(for example, some speakers, keyboard and mouse, and Windows 7 Ultimate OEM) for $1500, and my computer plus monitor set me back a bit over $800. The comparable Mac pro is $6208. That's a lovely big round number, isn't it? Let's roll it over our tongues again - Six thousand, two hundred and eight Dollars. Compared to $850 and change. To be fair, the monitor is bigger - 27 inches to my 25 - The processor isn't quite as quick, and there was no option to ditch the mouse and keyboard. Also, I didn't include the apple care plan, even though all but a few parts in my computer have a warranty, both from the distributor and the manufacturer, but I call that not hugely relevant.
Did you use Apple's site to configure the options? There's your problem right there -- Apple insanely overprices their build to order options. Granted, everyone insanely overprices build to order options, but Apple is just about the worst about it. What you probably want to do is choose the bare minimum options that you can't easily upgrade and then purchase anything extra (RAM, additional hard drives, etc.). from NewEgg or any other preferred website. With the exception of video cards and certain PCI cards that may not have Mac drivers, pretty much any PC hardware you can purchase will work in a Mac. Plus, remember the Mac Pro isn't a midrange system, it's a high-end workstation class machine (or at least that's its target market). Apple doesn't really have midrange systems -- there's the iMac, which is their low-end system (and I agree can be overpriced in many cases) and the Mac Pro, which is their high-end professional system.
Yes, It's natural that a home-build is going to be cheaper than a pre-built system - but the fact that(to use my own example) a pre-built mac-pro spec'ed up to match a middle-to-high end home-build cost several THOUSAND more is insane.
Yeah, but if you upgraded the Mac Pro similarly to how you I assume you described upgrading your own system (i.e. using mostly stock parts that you purchase and install yourself as opposed to paying the manufacturer to put them in for you), then the difference in price is much smaller.
No, I actually went to Apple's website and Dell's website and did my own analysis/comparison. I did my best to match a Mac Pro configuration to one from Dell's Precision line, which is the Dell line that (at the time, I haven't checked recently) lines up with/competes with the Mac Pro the best -- high end, professional workstations (which is the market the Mac Pro is targeted for). This was several months ago and I mostly just threw out a few tweets on my twitter account to compare the prices. However, I agree that this particular link doesn't have the best methodology -- I don't think the poster did quite as good a job as I did in trying to match up specs (i.e. different VRAM on the video card, cost of a printer, not necessarily matching up the appropriate lines, including software that probably shouldn't be included in the price, etc.).
I meant "This wasn't you that wrote this Analysis, Was it?" rather than "You just used this, didn't you?"
Plus, remember the Mac Pro isn't a midrange system, it's a high-end workstation class machine (or at least that's its target market).
If your High End Workstation Class Machine has to be upgraded to match a homebuild that I'd consider in the High-middle range, maybe bottom of the high end at best, Then I think you need to rethink What "High End" means.
Did you use Apple's site to configure the options? There's your problem right there -- Apple insanely overprices their build to order options.
Of course I did. Because I'm comparing prices for a Mac Pro against an Equivalent system, Not a Mac Pro with whatever extra shit from newegg you can cram in - And I came to the 1500 odd figure by using a system builder from a company down here I know that's a little pricy for their pre-builds, but do high quality work.
And of course, if you're buying the Base mac pro, no upgrades - I should mention, I'm working in Australian dollars, from the Australian apple store - it's still over 2000 dollars more expensive than my homebuild, and a grand half more than the pre-build version - BOTH of which thrash the Mac. The only area where the Mac clearly wins is the monitor, which is admittedly a little bit larger and a little bit nicer. You really can't say "Hey, Mac Pro is within a couple of hundred bucks" when the Base machine is more than a grand or two more expensive than more powerful machines, and to upgrade it to match them, you're either spending thousands MORE dollars, or you're going over to Newegg/Umart and dropping a few hundred on parts. I would add that asking me to remember that the Mac Pro is a high-end professional system is a bit beyond the pale, especially when that's part of the reason why I should lash out a minimum of a grand and a half extra of my hard earned, for which I could buy another pre-build of identical specs, and have TWO computers that are more powerful than the Mac Pro.
Yeah, but if you upgraded the Mac Pro similarly to how you I assume you described upgrading your own system (i.e. using mostly stock parts that you purchase and install yourself as opposed to paying the manufacturer to put them in for you), then the difference in price is much smaller.
Well, I didn't upgrade, so much as buy everything brand new from stem to stern - seriously, the only old parts I'm using are my webcam(which isn't damaged or worn in any way, and is an excellent webcam) and my mouse(a Razer Krait which is still doing fine). I have a different keyboard, but I purchased that separately, to replace another keyboard. But that aside, even if I paid someone else to put in the parts for me, while your point that the difference in price is smaller, it's still a pretty big gap - I don't think you can justify an extra grand and a half, especially when you have to buy (Roughly) another few hundred bucks worth of parts to make it comparable.
No, I actually went to Apple's website and Dell's website and did my own analysis/comparison. I did my best to match a Mac Pro configuration to one from Dell's Precision line, which is the Dell line that (at the time, I haven't checked recently) lines up with/competes with the Mac Pro the best -- high end, professional workstations (which is the market the Mac Pro is targeted for). This was several months ago and I mostly just threw out a few tweets on my twitter account to compare the prices. However, I agree that this particular link doesn't have the best methodology -- I don't think the poster did quite as good a job as I did in trying to match up specs (i.e. different VRAM on the video card, cost of a printer, not necessarily matching up the appropriate lines, including software that probably shouldn't be included in the price, etc.).
I meant "This wasn't you that wrote this Analysis, Was it?" rather than "You just used this, didn't you?"
Ah, either way, I had nothing at all to do that analysis. I came up with my own one. Heck, a little bit ago I did my own quick and dirty analysis (very quick and dirty, so it may not be 100% accurate) vs. a Dell Precision T7500 and the equivalent Mac Pro came out at only $200 more with a slightly faster CPU to boot.
Plus, remember the Mac Pro isn't a midrange system, it's a high-end workstation class machine (or at least that's its target market).
If your High End Workstation Class Machine has to be upgraded to match a homebuild that I'd consider in the High-middle range, maybe bottom of the high end at best, Then I think you need to rethink What "High End" means.
What are the specs on this homebuild system that you're talking about then? Maybe if I knew the precise specs, I'd have a better idea where you're coming from.
Did you use Apple's site to configure the options? There's your problem right there -- Apple insanely overprices their build to order options.
Of course I did. Because I'm comparing prices for a Mac Pro against an Equivalent system, Not a Mac Pro with whatever extra shit from newegg you can cram in - And I came to the 1500 odd figure by using a system builder from a company down here I know that's a little pricy for their pre-builds, but do high quality work.
Fair enough. Of course, I still don't know what the specs are on said system, but the $6000 price difference sounds a bit... off... to me, given how I didn't see that at all with the Dell I just tried to configure.
And of course, if you're buying the Base mac pro, no upgrades - I should mention, I'm working in Australian dollars, from the Australian apple store - it's still over 2000 dollars more expensive than my homebuild, and a grand half more than the pre-build version - BOTH of which thrash the Mac. The only area where the Mac clearly wins is the monitor, which is admittedly a little bit larger and a little bit nicer.
I wonder if this is an overseas pricing/exchange rate issue? I am not seeing these huge price differences on equivalent machines priced in American dollars. I have heard that Apples are significantly more expensive overseas than they are in North America.
You really can't say "Hey, Mac Pro is within a couple of hundred bucks" when the Base machine is more than a grand or two more expensive than more powerful machines, and to upgrade it to match them, you're either spending thousands MORE dollars, or you're going over to Newegg/Umart and dropping a few hundred on parts. I would add that asking me to remember that the Mac Pro is a high-end professional system is a bit beyond the pale, especially when that's part of the reason why I should lash out a minimum of a grand and a half extra of my hard earned, for which I could buy another pre-build of identical specs, and have TWO computers that are more powerful than the Mac Pro.
Well, in the Dell comparison I just made, I pretty much compared base with base between their respective professional workstation lines. I actually had to upgrade the Dell, actually, to have a CPU, graphics card, and hard drive roughly equivalent to that in the Mac Pro. The base Mac Pro did come better equipped than the base Dell I chose. Then again, maybe Dell also charges significantly higher than your favorite local shop that you mentioned.
Yeah, but if you upgraded the Mac Pro similarly to how you I assume you described upgrading your own system (i.e. using mostly stock parts that you purchase and install yourself as opposed to paying the manufacturer to put them in for you), then the difference in price is much smaller.
Well, I didn't upgrade, so much as buy everything brand new from stem to stern - seriously, the only old parts I'm using are my webcam(which isn't damaged or worn in any way, and is an excellent webcam) and my mouse(a Razer Krait which is still doing fine). I have a different keyboard, but I purchased that separately, to replace another keyboard. But that aside, even if I paid someone else to put in the parts for me, while your point that the difference in price is smaller, it's still a pretty big gap - I don't think you can justify an extra grand and a half, especially when you have to buy (Roughly) another few hundred bucks worth of parts to make it comparable.
Okay, I misunderstood there. However, again, I don't know exactly what the specs are on your machine, and given my own experience, I wonder if we're not doing a proper apples-to-apples comparison here. FWIW, the Mac Pro I'm talking about and that I used with my comparison against the Dell Precision T7500 was the base single 2.8 GHz Quad Core Nehalem Xeon CPU model with no upgrades. It lists for $2499US. The Dell clocked in at $2309, which includes Windows 7 Ultimate (a $50 upgrade price) and a Logitech wireless mouse ($60 or so, and I added it since a wireless mouse is standard with the Mac Pro) in addition to matching the hardware configuration as closely as I could. Neither price included a monitor.
Fair enough. Of course, I still don't know what the specs are on said system, but the $6000 price difference sounds a bit... off... to me, given how I didn't see that at all with the Dell I just tried to configure.
I had admittedly forgotten about this, and you are apparently somewhat correct - the US store lists the base Mac Pro as USD$2499 - which is AUD$2,330 - whereas the base model in the Apple stores here costs AUD$2999, which works out to about USD$3,216 or so. When I modify the Mac Pro to match in the US store, it's only USD$4,273. So, We're approaching this from different angles, apparently, in such a way that it might invalidate our arguments against each other - and indeed(pending further investigation), your point may hold there, but not hold here, thanks to Apple following the US tradition and absolutely fucking us on prices for damned near anything, and vice versa - and thus, we're both right, or both wrong, depending on which way you look at it.
So, good sir, if you'll join me in a double facepalm for forgetting about international price differences, I'd be appreciative.
Okay, I misunderstood there. However, again, I don't know exactly what the specs are on your machine, and given my own experience, I wonder if we're not doing a proper apples-to-apples comparison here. FWIW, the Mac Pro I'm talking about and that I used with my comparison against the Dell Precision T7500 was the base single 2.8 GHz Quad Core Nehalem Xeon CPU model with no upgrades. It lists for $2499US. The Dell clocked in at $2309, which includes Windows 7 Ultimate (a $50 upgrade price) and a Logitech wireless mouse ($60 or so, and I added it since a wireless mouse is standard with the Mac Pro) in addition to matching the hardware configuration as closely as I could. Neither price included a monitor.
Don't worry, Dell Fucks us, too - AUD$3,799 for the Precision T7500, buying directly from Dell - however, going to other distributors, I have seen prices as low as AUD$1600 and AUD$1700. So, Moral of the story, like so many other stories, don't buy from Dell.
Actually, as a weird thing I've noticed - every Mac comparison I've seen compares Mac to Dell. I wonder why this is? Frankly, most people I know don't give Dell much credit, and avoid them, and most home users (here at least) tend to go for computers bought from places like Harvey Norman, Dick Smith, and so on, with companies tending towards smaller, but more specialized companies like Computer Alliance and Concorde Computing - unless they're large corporations, but that's another story entirely. Is it that Dell is the most expensive? That Mac Users have to group Non-mac PCs under a single flag just like theirs, no matter how invalid that is? I don't know for the life of me, but that's just the case - If it's a Mac to Non-Mac comparison, Ten to one it's going to be Dell Vs Mac.
So, good sir, if you'll join me in a double facepalm for forgetting about international price differences, I'd be appreciative.
Joined. I forgot you were in Australia, but when you started mentioning it, I realized that yeah, international price differences could play a significant role in what we're seeing.
Actually, as a weird thing I've noticed - every Mac comparison I've seen compares Mac to Dell. I wonder why this is? Frankly, most people I know don't give Dell much credit, and avoid them, and most home users (here at least) tend to go for computers bought from places like Harvey Norman, Dick Smith, and so on, with companies tending towards smaller, but more specialized companies like Computer Alliance and Concorde Computing - unless they're large corporations, but that's another story entirely. Is it that Dell is the most expensive? That Mac Users have to group Non-mac PCs under a single flag just like theirs, no matter how invalid that is? I don't know for the life of me, but that's just the case - If it's a Mac to Non-Mac comparison, Ten to one it's going to be Dell Vs Mac.
Well, Dell is the #1 or #2 PC maker in the world (they're usually going back and forth with HP) and they are especially popular in the US (again, along with HP) among the average consumer and with businesses of all sizes, small and large, who want a pre-built machine and don't get it from a small, independent shop. The companies you mentioned as being popular in Australia don't exist in the US to the best of my knowledge. Anyway, since Dells are so common, so well known, available anywhere in the US, and have a pretty decent website with a large number of build to order options, they tend to be chosen as the "standard PC" that gets compared with Macs. They're also among the least expensive of the well-known brands here with their cheapest, crappiest machines starting just under $300US. HP's cheapest tend to clock in around that price as well and the cheapest Lenovo (the next best-known desktop brand in the US, IMHO) clocks in at about $499 to start. I actually tried to go to HP's site to see what they have, but they apparently don't have a build-to-order option on their site anymore, which would've made it difficult to do a comparison.When I did a quick check of a Lenovo (ThinkStation D20), it came out at just over $4000US for the closest configuration to the Mac Pro and the Dell, although part of that may be the NVidia Quadro GPU it uses.
The companies you mentioned as being popular in Australia don't exist in the US to the best of my knowledge.
Sorry, incomplete info on my part, I know they're not in the US, but I should have noted - They're more like going to Best Buy or Fry's than going to Dell or HP. They both sell computers from larger brands, and also sell their own...well, I don't know if branded is the right word for the systems, but it's close enough, they essentially spec out their computers and someone builds+configures them, then they sell them.
I realized that yeah, international price differences could play a significant role in what we're seeing.
Absolutely - compared to the upgraded system from here, the upgraded US system starts looking almost reasonable - It'd actually be cheaper to buy one from the US and then just ship it over for almost all apple products - It can be expensive to ship single computers, especially if you want them to arrive in one piece, but that's nowhere near expensive enough to mitigate the savings you'd make.
The companies you mentioned as being popular in Australia don't exist in the US to the best of my knowledge.
Sorry, incomplete info on my part, I know they're not in the US, but I should have noted - They're more like going to Best Buy or Fry's than going to Dell or HP. They both sell computers from larger brands, and also sell their own...well, I don't know if branded is the right word for the systems, but it's close enough, they essentially spec out their computers and someone builds+configures them, then they sell them.
Gotcha. FYI, Dell and HP are sold at our own Best Buys and whatnot as well as via mail-order.
I realized that yeah, international price differences could play a significant role in what we're seeing.
Absolutely - compared to the upgraded system from here, the upgraded US system starts looking almost reasonable - It'd actually be cheaper to buy one from the US and then just ship it over for almost all apple products - It can be expensive to ship single computers, especially if you want them to arrive in one piece, but that's nowhere near expensive enough to mitigate the savings you'd make.
Damn, it sucks that it's so crazy pricey down there for you... Even for our normally cheaper brands, like Dell and HP, you guys get gouged. Then again, I hear the same from my family in Portugal, so it's not unique to Australia.
Damn, it sucks that it's so crazy pricey down there for you... Even for our normally cheaper brands, like Dell and HP, you guys get gouged. Then again, I hear the same from my family in Portugal, so it's not unique to Australia.
Yep - We're used to getting gouged by the US. Actually, in an interesting turn of events, more and more people are shopping online in the states with the strong dollar, and getting the goods shipped here. It to the point where major retailers are - stupidly - trying to get the government to reduce the level at which you start paying duty on your imported goods to about $100 to try and discourage people from shopping online overseas - it doesn't help that these retailers are gouging us as well, however, with goods ordered online and shipped still being significantly cheaper than buying in stores.
It to the point where major retailers are - stupidly - trying to get the government to reduce the level at which you start paying duty on your imported goods to about $100
Sounds like a very similar situation to Japan and their paranoia about reimportation, except you guys don't have the jingoistic xenophobia about buying things from other countries.
Sounds like a very similar situation to Japan and their paranoia about reimportation, except you guys don't have the jingoistic xenophobia about buying things from other countries.
Nah, they're just gouging so bad on prices that they're getting bent over and fucked by international retailers, even when you include shipping - For example, The latest Bond Book, Cart Blanche - RRP(What most retailers are selling it at) here is about 33 bucks. Amazon? 14 bucks(13, if you account for the currency difference), plus shipping, which should come out under ten dollars. A rather sharper example, Wrangler Original jeans in the states? About $20, $35 at most. Here, from a brick and mortar? About a $110, $120 , if you can find them. PRO TIP - Nobody's wrangler butt is driving anyone nuts if they can't afford the fucking jeans.
Yep - We're used to getting gouged by the US. Actually, in an interesting turn of events, more and more people are shopping online in the states with the strong dollar, and getting the goods shipped here. It to the point where major retailers are - stupidly - trying to get the government to reduce the level at which you start paying duty on your imported goods to about $100 to try and discourage people from shopping online overseas - it doesn't help that these retailers are gouging us as well, however, with goods ordered online and shipped still being significantly cheaper than buying in stores.
My family in Portugal often does the same thing. They'll often go on shopping sprees when they visit us for things that cost an arm and a leg back home or sometimes ask us to pick things up for them before we go visit them.
My cousins from Spain were just over here for a year while their mom did research work. One of them bought an iPod Touch while he was over here precisely because it's about half as expensive in the US.
My cousins from Spain were just over here for a year while their mom did research work. One of them bought an iPod Touch while he was over here precisely because it's about half as expensive in the US.
In before Apple's DRM shenanigans. But yay shit dollar! (also, keep an eye out on those cousins of yours, you know how that folk is)
In before Apple's DRM shenanigans. But yay shit dollar! (also, keep an eye out on those cousins of yours, you know how that folk is)
Nah, the Itunes store over here is actually fairly priced enough that it doesn't make a difference. Also, Steam is usually pretty good at giving us games for US prices(in fact, IIRC, our prices either match USD or we pay in USD, so games are slightly cheaper for us) but for the small few, where for no discernible reason, they charge 80-90 bucks - for example, Brink is a 60 Dollar game in the US, and down here, it's about $90 - for a digital download with no shipping, no physical media, no real reason for to to cost more, other than publisher's greed.
I should note - this doesn't happen with Valve's games, for which we always have fair prices online(In stores, Portal 2 was still at the 80-90 dollar mark for PC, and $120 for console, whereas off steam, it was the same price as the US, and we got all the same special deals) - but it does happen with games from other publishers.
My family in Portugal often does the same thing. They'll often go on shopping sprees when they visit us for things that cost an arm and a leg back home or sometimes ask us to pick things up for them before we go visit them.
I can't blame them, a lot of people in other countries do the same thing. I remember O from Comissioned speaking of how he did this when he visits US conventions from Columbia, and how to get video games and consoles, he essentially has go to the black market. My Main online shopping comes from the US, along with some southeast Asian countries, mostly China and Japan - Japan actually being really good to shop with from here, since we've got a very good relationship with them.
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This is why you stay out of the long grass of the internet.
Now building your own will come in cheaper, but that's standard for almost anything -- whether it's a Dell or Apple or whatnot.
Apple does overcharge up the wazoo for their lower-end lines, but their high-end lines are pretty close to other manufacturer's similar high-end lines.
You may have to look harder for compatible parts, sometimes, but most of them aren't cheap and some of them (hard drives) are identical. I've used hard drives I purchased on New Egg on my Macs with no problem. Similarly, I had to purchase a USB 2.0 PCI card for an older Mac (PowerPC even) that only had 1.0 and it only cost me about $20 online. RAM? Bought it on Crucial.com for the same price as regular PC RAM (even for my PowerPC Mac). I do give you that video cards are ridiculously expensive on the Mac though.
Yeah, fuck you, Apple.
EDIT: Full disclosure, I had a student discount, but the comparison would still make an inferior MacBook Air more expensive. And I will give Apple this: their devices are immensely user-friendly, and I recommend them to people who both have the money and are not experienced with computers. However, I also offer to build them a Hackintosh for a lot less.
Also, Yes, if you build it yourself, it'll be cheaper. However, that's not a valid argument when you consider that, for example, If I was to get my current computer, which I built myself, as a pre-build, it would cost me a few hundred bucks more - I can pick up a comparable system with a few extras(for example, some speakers, keyboard and mouse, and Windows 7 Ultimate OEM) for $1500, and my computer plus monitor set me back a bit over $800. The comparable Mac pro is $6208. That's a lovely big round number, isn't it? Let's roll it over our tongues again - Six thousand, two hundred and eight Dollars. Compared to $850 and change.
To be fair, the monitor is bigger - 27 inches to my 25 - The processor isn't quite as quick, and there was no option to ditch the mouse and keyboard. Also, I didn't include the apple care plan, even though all but a few parts in my computer have a warranty, both from the distributor and the manufacturer, but I call that not hugely relevant.
Yes, It's natural that a home-build is going to be cheaper than a pre-built system - but the fact that(to use my own example) a pre-built mac-pro spec'ed up to match a middle-to-high end home-build cost several THOUSAND more is insane.
And of course, if you're buying the Base mac pro, no upgrades - I should mention, I'm working in Australian dollars, from the Australian apple store - it's still over 2000 dollars more expensive than my homebuild, and a grand half more than the pre-build version - BOTH of which thrash the Mac. The only area where the Mac clearly wins is the monitor, which is admittedly a little bit larger and a little bit nicer.
You really can't say "Hey, Mac Pro is within a couple of hundred bucks" when the Base machine is more than a grand or two more expensive than more powerful machines, and to upgrade it to match them, you're either spending thousands MORE dollars, or you're going over to Newegg/Umart and dropping a few hundred on parts. I would add that asking me to remember that the Mac Pro is a high-end professional system is a bit beyond the pale, especially when that's part of the reason why I should lash out a minimum of a grand and a half extra of my hard earned, for which I could buy another pre-build of identical specs, and have TWO computers that are more powerful than the Mac Pro. Well, I didn't upgrade, so much as buy everything brand new from stem to stern - seriously, the only old parts I'm using are my webcam(which isn't damaged or worn in any way, and is an excellent webcam) and my mouse(a Razer Krait which is still doing fine). I have a different keyboard, but I purchased that separately, to replace another keyboard. But that aside, even if I paid someone else to put in the parts for me, while your point that the difference in price is smaller, it's still a pretty big gap - I don't think you can justify an extra grand and a half, especially when you have to buy (Roughly) another few hundred bucks worth of parts to make it comparable.
So, good sir, if you'll join me in a double facepalm for forgetting about international price differences, I'd be appreciative. Don't worry, Dell Fucks us, too - AUD$3,799 for the Precision T7500, buying directly from Dell - however, going to other distributors, I have seen prices as low as AUD$1600 and AUD$1700. So, Moral of the story, like so many other stories, don't buy from Dell.
Actually, as a weird thing I've noticed - every Mac comparison I've seen compares Mac to Dell. I wonder why this is? Frankly, most people I know don't give Dell much credit, and avoid them, and most home users (here at least) tend to go for computers bought from places like Harvey Norman, Dick Smith, and so on, with companies tending towards smaller, but more specialized companies like Computer Alliance and Concorde Computing - unless they're large corporations, but that's another story entirely. Is it that Dell is the most expensive? That Mac Users have to group Non-mac PCs under a single flag just like theirs, no matter how invalid that is? I don't know for the life of me, but that's just the case - If it's a Mac to Non-Mac comparison, Ten to one it's going to be Dell Vs Mac.
EDIT - Ah, here it is.
I should note - this doesn't happen with Valve's games, for which we always have fair prices online(In stores, Portal 2 was still at the 80-90 dollar mark for PC, and $120 for console, whereas off steam, it was the same price as the US, and we got all the same special deals) - but it does happen with games from other publishers. I can't blame them, a lot of people in other countries do the same thing. I remember O from Comissioned speaking of how he did this when he visits US conventions from Columbia, and how to get video games and consoles, he essentially has go to the black market. My Main online shopping comes from the US, along with some southeast Asian countries, mostly China and Japan - Japan actually being really good to shop with from here, since we've got a very good relationship with them.