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BLM Slaughtering Wild Horses to Placate Cattle Ranchers

Kate MonsterKate Monster
edited July 2008 in News
The Bureau of Land Management rounded up and is going to kill 120 wild horses on public land. Why? Because the land cannot sustain them and the privately owned cattle that graze on PUBLIC land. Moreover, the cattle ranchers are attempting to say that is the Wild Horses that are posing an environmental threat to the public land - not their industry. WTF? I am all for cattle ranchers doing their business, but they are using public resources to aid their private industry and putting pressure on an organization to slaughter the very animals it is meant to humanely manage and protect. Even the methods of rounding up the herds by chasing them with helicopters (yes, really) and then shooting them (yes, really) is disgusting. There are humane bait trapping methods and birth control that could be utilize to humanely control population.
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EDIT: Wow, apparently the 120 is just one small group. According to the an interview that I am going to look into (for validity) they are looking to corral and slaughter thousands of horses.
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Comments

  • HMTKSteveHMTKSteve
    Is it legal for the BLM to round up these horses and sell them?
  • Kate MonsterKate Monster
    Is it legal for the BLM to round up these horses and sell them?
    They have an adoption program, but they have chosen this option instead as more expedient.
  • AprecheApreche
    Why are privately held animals grazing on public land?
  • HMTKSteveHMTKSteve
    Do you have a link to the adoption program or information on how successful the adoption program is? If killing the horses is more expedient than finding them homes perhaps their is a problem with the adoption program?
  • Kate MonsterKate Monster
    edited July 2008
    Why are privately held animals grazing on public land?
    Yeah, that is my question.
    EDIT: I will do more research when I get home and post it.
    Post edited by Kate Monster on
  • KilarneyKilarney
    edited July 2008
    Why are privately held animals grazing on public land?
    Because not all land is set aside for no-impact use. We want to use our public land for the public good. The next time you buy a piece of lumber, thank the BLM for allowing logging on public land. You can also thank them for a lot of oil, water, etc.

    As long as the contracts are put out to bid in a competitive manner, I have no problem with harvesting the resources of certain federal lands. This assumes, of course, that it is done in an ecologically appropriate manner. There is a huge debate as to whether or not cattle are overgrazing our federal lands. But if cows and horses can live together and be happy, I'm fine with that. Killing horses is not a terrible thing. Any wildlife has to be managed.
    Post edited by Kilarney on
  • HMTKSteveHMTKSteve
    Why are privately held animals grazing on public land?
    Same reason logging companies cut timber on public lands and oil companies drill for oil on public lands.

    Fact Sheet on the BLM’s Management of Livestock Grazing
    One of the BLM’s key responsibilities under the 1971 law is to determine the “appropriate management level” (AML) of wild horses and burros on the public rangelands. These animals have virtually no natural predators and their herd sizes can double about every four years. As a result, an estimated 33,000 wild horses and burros roam BLM-managed lands in 10 Western states, a population that exceeds by some 5,700 the number that can exist in balance with other public rangeland resources and uses. Droughts and wildfires also have a determining factor in the number of wild horses and burros that must be removed yearly.
    National Wild Horse and Burro Program

    Lots of information on the BLM site.
  • Kate MonsterKate Monster
    Why are privately held animals grazing on public land?
    Same reason logging companies cut timber on public lands and oil companies drill for oil on public lands.

    Fact Sheet on the BLM’s Management of Livestock Grazing
    One of the BLM’s key responsibilities under the 1971 law is to determine the “appropriate management level” (AML) of wild horses and burros on the public rangelands. These animals have virtually no natural predators and their herd sizes can double about every four years. As a result, an estimated 33,000 wild horses and burros roam BLM-managed lands in 10 Western states, a population that exceeds by some 5,700 the number that can exist in balance with other public rangeland resources and uses. Droughts and wildfires also have a determining factor in the number of wild horses and burros that must be removed yearly.
    National Wild Horse and Burro Program

    Lots of information on theBLMsite. Then why not use humane methods to control population?
  • HMTKSteveHMTKSteve
    Then why not use humane methods to control population?
    I don't have an answer to that question. Check the BLM website.
  • George PatchesGeorge Patches
    Then why not use humane methods to control population?
    Money.
  • NuriNuri
    edited July 2008
    Logging companies pay the owners for the timber they cut. It is a revenue source for public forest management organizations. If the cattle ranchers are paying the BLM "rent" or fees or whatever for use of the public grazing land, then this is a comparable example.

    However, there are laws in place governing sustainable use/harvesting of forest land, and contrary to popular belief there is no shortage of private timber to harvest. (On the East Coast...the govt owns most of the timber land on the West coast, so the situation is slightly different) It does not appear to be so with grasslands, so the ranchers are overusing the public resource and the wildlife is suffering because of it.

    My main qualm with this is that it seems to be a waste. Frankly, if they're going to be killing these animals for population control, they ought to be contributing the resulting meat to impoverished areas for food. I have no problem with the basic concept of population control to prevent disease and massive death, but killing one animal to make room for another seems like it violates the intent of our protection laws. There are probably technicalities that they get by on.
    Post edited by Nuri on
  • gomidoggomidog
    edited July 2008
    Noooooo! Nooo!

    That is horrible. This sort of overpopulation is the fault of humans, mostly. Bring back the pumas and wolves to keep the horses in line! But noooo! We must have beef and natural predators would sometimes eat the cows too!

    This makes me super sad. It's one thing to control wildlife population (like with the deer in Michigan), but this is a shameful, cruel tragedy. The really, really bad thing is is that the horse's meat will go to waste. They are shooting animals so that other animals can be raised and then shot. That's essentially what is going on here. Why would people allow this to go on, yet not want to eat horse meat? Sure, horses have the mental capacity of a three year old child. Sure, they are beautiful and powerful animals. I love horses so much. However, if it was a choice between wasting the meat to make more meat and eating the animals shot by the hunters, I would gladly eat the culled horses flesh. Like Kate says, Isn't there a better way to control the population?
    Post edited by gomidog on
  • CremlianCremlian
    Noooooo! Nooo!

    That is horrible. This sort of overpopulation is the fault of humans, mostly. Bring back the pumas and wolves to keep the horses in line! But noooo! We must have beef and natural predators would sometimes eat the cows too!

    This makes me super sad. It's one thing to control wildlife population (like with the deer in Michigan), but this is a shameful, cruel tragedy. The really, really bad thing is is that the horse's meat will go to waste. They are shooting animals so that other animals can be raised and then shot. That's essentially what is going on here. Why would people allow this to go on, yet not want to eat horse meat? Sure, horses have the mental capacity of a three year old child. Sure, they are beautiful and powerful animals. I love horses so much. However, if it was a choice between wasting the meat to make more meat, I would gladly eat the culled horses flesh. Like Kate says, Isn't there a better way to control the population?
    People tend not to like to eat animals that we utilize for something other then food or keep as pets. I don't think I'd eat Horse meat nor would I eat cat or dog. Just as much as I would not eat Human.
  • NuriNuri
    edited July 2008
    Bring back the pumas and wolves to keep the horses in line! But noooo! We must have beef and natural predators would sometimes eat the cows too!
    I take it this would be a bad time to make an AirWolf joke?

    Seriously, I wish this made me sad, but it's terribly unsurprising. The US govt does all kinds of crazy shit that I learned about in my environmental law class (and others, of course). After all the research papers I've written on these subjects, I don't think any stupid environmental policy can surprise me anymore. That's one of the reasons I'd like to go into environmental law/policy. There are so many things like this that just don't make sense.
    Post edited by Nuri on
  • gomidoggomidog
    edited July 2008
    It's stupid. I'm the same way. I don't want to eat dogs or horses or rabbits, because I have shared deep bonds of affection with individuals of the species. The reason I like rabbits so much is because I have seen the personality there, in a small, and, in comparison to horses and dogs, pretty dim little animal. But you see that it is an individual, a being with a mind. You have a fondness for this little pet that licks your hand, and gets angry and sulks, and gets joyful and kicks up its heels. You see elements of the human in it and elements of the animal within yourself. The thing is, if you see that in your chosen companion animal and yet still persist in eating mammal meat from intelligent animals like pigs and cows, you are a hypocrite. I am a little bit of one, because I am not a complete vegetarian, but when I eat animals, this is always in my head. This is the problem with Americans. Animals are not humans, but we must not see them as things, either. Why do pigs, which have equivalent mental capacity to dogs endure such torture while people lose their shit over stories of dog fighting?

    And seriously? If there was a dog or a bunny that was shot dead and there was the choice between eating it or throwing it away, I would eat its meat. I would be sad and cry, but I would find comfort in the knowledge that at least its death was not pointless. At least it was sustaining me and nurturing my body.
    Post edited by gomidog on
  • LyddiLyddi
    edited July 2008
    They could use the horse meat for pet food. Isn't that what pet food is usually made from anyway? Poor horsies.
    Post edited by Andrew on
  • RymRym
    Frankly, if they're going to be killing these animals for population control, they ought to be contributing the resulting meat to impoverished areas for food.
    That's one thing I really liked about Michigan. Any time they have to cull herds of deer, all of the meat is donated to poor families and homeless shelters.
  • Kate MonsterKate Monster
    Frankly, if they're going to be killing these animals for population control, they ought to be contributing the resulting meat to impoverished areas for food.
    That's one thing I really liked about Michigan. Any time they have to cull herds of deer, all of the meat is donated to poor families and homeless shelters.
    Last I knew, there was an Act passed in 2006 that made it illegal to slaughter horses for human consumption as they are considered "companion" animals.
  • OmnutiaOmnutia
    edited July 2008
    I find this thread kinda pointless. What have you ever done to help the thousands of people who die through no fault of their own? Horses on the other hand? Sheesh.

    To elaborate, this could likely be ranchers wanting the land for themselves out of greed but as there is no evidence for or against, we can't really discuss that.
    From a logical standpoint, where are you going to put that many horses? I have it on good authority that stables aren't cheap.
    Post edited by Omnutia on
  • MrRobotoMrRoboto
    edited July 2008
    I think the problem is that horse meat is really tough, and since they are wild horses, there is no way of telling if there is something on the meat that may make it not suitable for human consumption and testing it wouldn't be cost effective I guess.
    Post edited by MrRoboto on
  • RymRym
    since they are wild horses, there is no way of telling if [the meat] is suitable for human consumption
    Deer are wild animals, and there's no problem.
  • OmnutiaOmnutia
    Just cook it properly.
  • KilarneyKilarney
    edited July 2008
    Last I knew, there was an Act passed in 2006 that made it illegal to slaughter horses for human consumption as they are considered "companion" animals.
    The French would never put up with that! Now where did I put my foie grois?
    Post edited by Kilarney on
  • StarfoxStarfox
    Deer are wild animals, and there's no problem.
    Not if they have CWD.
  • NuriNuri
    Deer are wild animals, and there's no problem.
    Not if they haveCWD.
    What he was saying is that people eat deer, despite the population being wild and untested. Most of the time deer hunters know enough about the signs of diseases they need to watch out for to significantly reduce risks. The same could be done for the horses.

    I suspect Mrs. MacRoss is right about the law about companion animals. The same sort of thing happens with culled elephants in Africa (for a slightly different legal reason, but it's comparable). They do not want the slaughter to become commonplace or expected, so they outlaw it completely. Then in culling situations, they are left without an avenue to use the meat and/or products from the culled animals. There are warehouses of unused animal parts (such as ivory tusks) in some places simply because it is illegal to sell them, even from regulated culls. They are afraid that being able to sell or use products from culls will create a conflict of interest for those planning/performing the culling.

    It's a tricky problem to resolve.
  • HungryJoeHungryJoe
    edited July 2008
    Why do pigs, which have equivalent mental capacity to dogs endure such torture while people lose their shit over stories of dog fighting?
    Because pigs, at least the pigs that are raised for human consumption, are nasty and mean. They deserve any torture they receive. Trust me. I've dealt with many pigs on the farm. You would not shed a tear for any of them

    Cattle are not as bad as pigs. They can be mean, but they're not ALWAYS mean. However, their best behavior is when they're pretty much oblivious to anything. That makes it pretty hard to sympathize with them.

    Goats, (nannies only - billies are complete bastards) on the other hand, like people as much or possibly even more than dogs. It would be very, very hard for me to eat goat meat (unless I was sure it cam from a billy).

    This thing with the horses is pretty terrible. I hate it. I'm going to try to find if there are any ways to effectively oppose it.
    Post edited by HungryJoe on
  • HMTKSteveHMTKSteve
    Would a sterilization program be feasible?
  • AprecheApreche
    Would a sterilization program be feasible?
    I am all for the sterlizing of ranchers.
  • TheWhaleSharkTheWhaleShark
    Would a sterilization program be feasible?
    I am all for the sterlizing of ranchers.
    Autoclave sterilization? I mean, those guys are pretty dirty, y'know.
  • gomidoggomidog
    I find this thread kinda pointless. What have you ever done to help the thousands of people who die through no fault of their own? Horses on the other hand? Sheesh.
    To elaborate, this could likely be ranchers wanting the land for themselves out of greed but as there is no evidence for or against, we can't really discuss that.
    From a logical standpoint, where are you going to put that many horses? I have it on good authority that stables aren't cheap.
    They are WILD horses, you stupid boy! You let them wander around! Just let them alone, they are not pets!

    Also, I hate that argument. Who says I don't get upset by Darfur or victims of the tsunami or the disasters in Burma? I think about this all the time! Just because we mention something is bad, doesn't mean that we are ignoring all the other bad things! One thing about animal cruelty, is that people need to speak on the animals behalf, for they cannot say anything. Just because I get sad when bad things happen to animals doesn't mean I don't get pissed when horrible things happen to people. Geeez. Stupid head.
    Goats, (nannies only - billies are complete bastards) on the other hand, like people as much or possibly even more than dogs. It would be very, very hard for me to eat goat meat (unless I was sure it cam from a billy).
    As far as pigs go, some people like potbellied pigs for pets, and just because an intelligent animal is aggressive does not mean it should suffer unduly. I totally agree about the goat thing. My Aunt has goats, horses, and chickens on her farm (also many cats and a very drooly Australian Shepard.) The goats are sooo funny, and very affectionate. The Billy goat, Jack, was playful, and Cutie, the dwarf goat, is really adorable (although she has a high voice that sounds really weird.) I have a tough time eating jerked goat meat, even though it is delicious, because the goats are so goofy and fun.

    As for cows, I like Jersey Cows and Highland Cattle.
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