Gomidog, I say you are indignant and, I guess, no more than six years older than myself. I'm not going to sit here and try and quantify the suffering of two different beings but have you ever realized that the life you live now is a result of a culture that has historically taken what it wants wherever it could (colonialism, colonization of North America). If you have some plan to change this then I will back you all the way but I suspect you couldn't bring yourself to change shit. You'll have forgotten about this whole issue soon enough.
Well, wanting to save the horses from greedy ranchers IS wanting to change the "take whatever it[culture] wants, whenever it could" as in "no, you can't have that land and kill those horses"
Well, hopefully if they do indeed kill the horses, they make sure they don't go to waste. You can turn them into leather jackets and cordovan shoes. Maybe a pair of assless chaps for Rym. You know, for, uh, safety.
What have you ever done to help the thousands of people who die through no fault of their own? Horses on the other hand? Sheesh.
False dichotomy. By that logic, unless you donate all of your money and time to charity, you're no better than someone who's never acted altruistically in any capacity in their entire life. Caring about one topic or issue doesn't immediately supersede caring about another.
I'm not going to sit here and try and quantify the suffering of two different beings
I already spotted that. I just find the attitude of people who treat horses as being of greater value than other creatures just because they are aesthetically pleasing to be infuriating. What criteria do you place on what deserves life and what does not [I expect you to answer that one, it isn't just a logical phallus thingy.]
What criteria do you place on what deserves life and what does not
There's a sliding scale between a bacterium and a human. You should treat an animal proportionately to its intelligence and ability to meaningfully experience suffering.
I'm not going to sit here and try and quantify the suffering of two different beings but have you ever realized that the life you live now is a result of a culture that has historically taken what it wants wherever it could (colonialism, colonization of North America). If you have some plan to change this then I will back you all the way but I suspect you couldn't bring yourself to change shit.
You better eat those words. You think I don't think about this?! You think I don't feel the weight of the past pressing on the present? Part of the reason I try to be a compassionate human being is because I realize the horrors and inequalities of our shared past as a species. You don't even know me! You don't know who I am at all! You think I don't try to change things? You are wrong. Very wrong. I don't care if you call me names, but "selfish" is one insult that I will not stand for. Ask Scott. Our biggest fight was about whether one person had the ability to effect change in the world. And I make that effort. He questioned what it did, but I stand by the fact that every attempt, no matter how small, to make the world a kinder, better place is worthwhile. That you would be such a jerk over the fact that in addition to people, I care about animals...well, who is the cruel, uncaring one here?
Ok everybody, stop shouting. Gomidog, with the limited resources we have available to you, how would you go about resolving this problem and how much of your resources (waking hours, income, mortality) are you willing to expend to do so? Also, what justification do you give for expending those resources given the other problems that you want to solve?
My problem with you boils down to the idea that you should be doing the most good you can and saving wild horses isn't the most good you can do with your life.
My problem with you boils down to the idea that you should be doing the most good you can and saving wild horses isn't the most good you can do with your life.
There's no other proper response to such an idiotic statement.
The proper response is to let your friend speak for herself. Anything else suggests that you (a person who knows her personally and well) don't consider her capable of doing so, which undermines her ability to be taken seriously.
There's no other proper response to such an idiotic statement.
The proper response is to let your friend speak for herself. Anything else suggests that you, a person who knows her personally and well, don't consider her capable of doing so.
Or that, apart from her, I myself take umbrage with said statement. Emily can certainly speak for herself, and I'm sure she will. I simply felt inclined to express my distaste for someone who feels they're able to judge what pursuits constitute "the most good you can do." The level of presumption grates me to my core.
There's no other proper response to such an idiotic statement.
The proper response is to let your friend speak for herself. Anything else suggests that you, a person who knows her personally and well, don't consider her capable of doing so.
Or that, apart from her, I myself take umbrage with said statement. Emily can certainly speak for herself, and I'm sure she will. I simply felt inclined to express my distaste for someone who feels they're able to judge what pursuits constitute "the most good you can do." The level of presumption grates me to my core.
If that is indeed the case, don't you think that this second elaborated statement would have expressed your opinion with more clarity?
There's no other proper response to such an idiotic statement.
The proper response is to let your friend speak for herself. Anything else suggests that you, a person who knows her personally and well, don't consider her capable of doing so.
Or that, apart from her, I myself take umbrage with said statement. Emily can certainly speak for herself, and I'm sure she will. I simply felt inclined to express my distaste for someone who feels they're able to judge what pursuits constitute "the most good you can do." The level of presumption grates me to my core.
If that is indeed the case, don't you think that this second elaborated statement would have expressed your opinion with more clarity?
Oh, sure, I could elaborate as I just did. However, saying "Eat a dick" very viscerally conveys my dissatisfaction. An abrasive lack of eloquence can convey a point as well as or possibly more effectively than a lengthy and slightly overwrought statement. It also shows that I have such disdain for the statement that I can't be bothered to express my entire opinion; it would take too much effort. Now, of course, you got me off on a tangent explaining it, so that part of it is defeated.
Oh, sure, I could elaborate as I just did. However, saying "Eat a dick" very viscerally conveys my dissatisfaction. An abrasive lack of eloquence can convey a point just a strongly as a lengthy and possibly overwrought statement. It also shows that I have such disdain for the statement that I can't be bothered to express my entire opinion; it would take too much effort. Now, of course, you got me off on a tangent explaining it, so that part of it is defeated.
Perhaps it conveys your dissatisfaction, but it adds nothing of use to the conversation. Now if you'd posted an image macro, it would have been funny.
There's no other proper response to such an idiotic statement.
The proper response is to let your friend speak for herself. Anything else suggests that you (a person who knows her personally and well) don't consider her capable of doing so, which undermines her ability to be taken seriously.
Who appointed you peacemaker and/or forum moderator?
Oh, fer crying out loud, this thread is driving me crazy. Omnutia, you are being a punk and what you said to me was really rotten. Even though this is the internet and my feelings should not be hurt, you made me really angry last night.
What have you ever done to help the thousands of people who die through no fault of their own? Horses on the other hand? Sheesh. [...] If you have some plan to change this then I will back you all the way but I suspect you couldn't bring yourself to change shit.
Are you referring to the legacy of my culture's imperialist past, its genocide of the native Americans, its racism? Or is the "this" you are referring to the horse slaughter? Either way, your accusation is incorrect, in my opinion. You know, by Kate talking about it and raising awareness, she is trying to change things. She might not be on her way to the plains to stand in front of the helicopter, but by speaking out against this and encouraging others to do so, she IS trying to affect change. I sign petitions, write letters of complaint. I speak out. I go to anti-war protests. I am anti-racism, pro-gay rights green feminist, and a crusader for childrens rights. I'd never try to pretend I'm Ghandi, or something, but I feel I am politically motivated, environmentally conscious, generous, and caring. I try really, really hard to be this way because I think that it makes a difference in the world. This is simply the way I was raised, and the rest of my family is the same.
About the horses, I'm not saying that this is MY LIFE'S WORK or THIS IS THE MOST TRAGIC THING EVER! I am just saying "This is bad! Something should be done! Hey, the more people who make a fuss about this, the more likely the Bureau of Land Management will think about their actions." Is it so wrong to talk about something you think is a bad thing?
Oh, but let me guess. You are writing this from sub-saharan Africa where you are caring for AIDS orphans, teaching them math while you live frugally in a little hut made entirely from biodegradable material while you write this on your crank powered lap top. I should have known.
I'm very sorry for calling you a Stupid Head. That was uncalled for, especially to a great humanitarian such as yourself.
Comments
What criteria do you place on what deserves life and what does not [I expect you to answer that one, it isn't just a logical phallus thingy.]
Oh, I am ticked.
Gomidog, with the limited resources we have available to you, how would you go about resolving this problem and how much of your resources (waking hours, income, mortality) are you willing to expend to do so? Also, what justification do you give for expending those resources given the other problems that you want to solve?
My problem with you boils down to the idea that you should be doing the most good you can and saving wild horses isn't the most good you can do with your life.
About the horses, I'm not saying that this is MY LIFE'S WORK or THIS IS THE MOST TRAGIC THING EVER! I am just saying "This is bad! Something should be done! Hey, the more people who make a fuss about this, the more likely the Bureau of Land Management will think about their actions." Is it so wrong to talk about something you think is a bad thing?
Oh, but let me guess. You are writing this from sub-saharan Africa where you are caring for AIDS orphans, teaching them math while you live frugally in a little hut made entirely from biodegradable material while you write this on your crank powered lap top. I should have known.
I'm very sorry for calling you a Stupid Head. That was uncalled for, especially to a great humanitarian such as yourself.