WhyareCS classes being dropped like hot potatoes in High Schools?
They were almost always behind the times and effectively useless.
There's nobody to teach them. Most of the ones I've seen were always taught by math teachers who knew less than the students. Schools won't actually pay enough money to hire a qualified CS professor because they cost too much, do to low supply, and too few students are interested.
Until they mandate technology as the fifth mandatory subject, nothing will change.
Schools won't actually pay enough money to hire a qualified CS professor because they cost too much.
I would love to teach high school classes about computers, technology, and IT. I'd even be willing to take a substantial pay cut to do it. It's just that the requirements for being a teacher are not worth pursuing for anyone with a technical degree, nevermind the incredibly low salaries compared to industry jobs.
I would love to teach high school classes about computers, technology, and IT. I'd even be willing to take a substantial pay cut to do it. It's just that the requirements for being a teacher are not worth pursuing for anyone with a technical degree, nevermind the incredibly low salaries compared to industry jobs.
Also, engineers are very independent, and they wouldn't put up with the bullshit of the school administration. They'd all want to teach their class the way they wanted to. They would put their strong sense of justice and fairness ahead of the rules of the school. It's not just me copying myself onto everyone else in my profession, either. Look at the Slashdot comments. That is who would be teaching.
If they had real CS teachers, every one of them would be the cool teacher that all the kids love, but inevitably gets in trouble for being too cool for school.
I would love to teach high school classes about computers, technology, and IT. I'd even be willing to take a substantial pay cut to do it. It's just that the requirements for being a teacher are not worth pursuing for anyone with a technical degree, nevermind the incredibly low salaries compared to industry jobs.
My Math teacher in high school was Assistant Head of the Math department and his pay is going up to 90 grand next year. Teachers in Ontario make good money. When I talked to a career counselor, and he said the range for K-12 is around 36K - 105K. Another question, should I double major in Math and Computer Science? I want to teach both and I'm wondering if this would be more effective than taking Math classes as electives. Going from CS to Math and CS just changes some CS classes to Math classes.
Another question, should I double major in Math and Computer Science? I want to teach both and I'm wondering if this would be more effective than taking Math classes as electives. Going from CS to Math and CS just changes some CS classes to Math classes.
Let me tell you kids a secret the adults want you to know.
Your major doesn't matter that much. It does matter to some extent that if you want to be a doctor, you should probably take pre-med and then go to medical school. If you want to be a lawyer, you should probably go to law school. For all the other non-specialized work out there, major isn't very important. The CTO at my last job had a philosophy degree. There was an accountant I met once with a history degree. I know programmers who have no degree at all. I know middle managers with engineering degrees.
Getting jobs is really easy if you have any degree at all. Experience is more important than the exact words on your expensive piece of paper. Whether you take math, CS, match and CS, computer engineering, or even physics, you will probably be able to get a job as a Math/CS teacher. The important part is to get a teaching degree afterward, as it is somewhat mandatory in most places.
Take whatever major will give you the most enjoyable classes in college. You're paying a small fortune for it, you should enjoy as much of it as possible. The words on the paper won't have as huge an effect on the rest of your life as people like to tell you it will.
Let me tell you kids a secret the adults want you to know.
Your major doesn't matter that much. It does matter to some extent that if you want to be a doctor, you should probably take pre-med and then go to medical school. If you want to be a lawyer, you should probably go to law school. For all the other non-specialized work out there, major isn't very important. The CTO at my last job had a philosophy degree. There was an accountant I met once with a history degree. I know programmers who have no degree at all. I know middle managers with engineering degrees.
Getting jobs is really easy if you have any degree at all. Experience is more important than the exact words on your expensive piece of paper. Whether you take math, CS, match and CS, computer engineering, or even physics, you will probably be able to get a job as a Math/CS teacher. The important part is to get a teaching degree afterward, as it is somewhat mandatory in most places.
Take whatever major will give you the most enjoyable classes in college. You're paying a small fortune for it, you should enjoy as much of it as possible. The words on the paper won't have as huge an effect on the rest of your life as people like to tell you it will.
Alright, I'll take Math and CS. A few people have told me that taking Math, CS, Physics, or even Philosophy can really change the way you think; in a good way.
My public school system, while we still complain about it, is pretty good with the whole computer thing. We have one teacher who's position is "Computer Science Teacher", three computer repair guys, and an AV guy. The CS teacher teaches Computer Science Honors and AP, as well as a "Multimedia" class (Photoshop, Powerpoint, web design, and Hyperstudio all in one semester. Jack of all trades, master of none).
If they had real CS teachers, every one of them would be the cool teacher that all the kids love, but inevitably gets in trouble for being too cool for school.
My high school CS teacher on the left. He was the coolest teacher I ever met, as well as the best. Whatever Scott wishes to see in a high school CS teacher, this guy is that and more.
Re. math. I think it tends to make you think more logically. Logical thinking can be bad in teaching environments. If you get irritated by stupid people, look for something else other than teaching.
Re. math. I think it tends to make you think more logically. Logical thinking can be bad in teaching environments. If you get irritated by stupid people, look for something else other than teaching.
That just sounds like a challenge to me. I approach dumb people as a challenge for me to find analogies that are easy for them to comprehend. Edit - I'm also the kind of person who will take a dumber person who tries, over someone smart who doesn't try. I actually really respect kids who try their best, even if they're not the brightest.
I can fully respect your wanting to not only write software, but also teach in the future. I see myself going the same route, though the teaching will be much later.
I just graduated with a Computer Engineering degree and a CS minor, and honestly, they really don't mean much. Scott is right. Experience is the most important thing you'll ever need. When I go into job interviews, they don't care at all about my school work unless it is relevant (like if they ask about embedded systems, since I've only done that academically). They only ask about my previous summer jobs and internships.
My main point is this. Doing a double major is only impressive in the eyes of academia. Which is a good thing if you're planning on getting a Master's or PhD. I can't really say how useful it is for becoming a teacher, but I imagine it matters more in the eyes of who's hiring you than it would be in a regular CS industry. My advice is to try to be as well rounded as you can be. Take classes that can help you in your life outside of work, like the aforementioned athletics, public speaking, and writing. I would also throw in accounting, it's helped me out a lot more than I ever thought it would.
My main point is this. Doing a double major is only impressive in the eyes of academia. Which is a good thing if you're planning on getting a Master's or PhD. I can't really say how useful it is for becoming a teacher, but I imagine it matters more in the eyes of who's hiring you than it would be in a regular CS industry. My advice is to try to be as well rounded as you can be. Take classes that can help you in your life outside of work, like the aforementioned athletics, public speaking, and writing. I would also throw in accounting, it's helped me out a lot more than I ever thought it would.
I am considering maybe doing a masters in the future. In regards to teaching, I just really have this want to help kids. I also want to use technology to make teaching more efficient and more fun. It would be nice if I could say, with the help of the computing department of x school, show other teachers some tools to compliment their teachings. I mean, think about how much fun physics would be for kids if the teacher used Phun or using some modeling software in Math. I'd even like to have a Grade 12 final project in Computer Science that would emulate the process of actual software development. I don't feel that school should be harder for kids, just more enjoyable and more challenging. With the decrease of Mathematicians, Scientists and Technology Professionals, I think we need some change to education. Also, why isn't basic Physics taught in middle school? There's at least a couple classes worth of Physics that would only be multiplication and division.
I'm also the kind of person who will take a dumber person who tries, over someone smart who doesn't try.
Well, given the same task, if the smarter person doesn't need to try, what else can you expect? One must at least offer them more challenging tasks. If they turn those down, then I can agree with you.
Well, given the same task, if the smarter person doesn't need to try, what else can you expect? One must at least offer them more challenging tasks. If they turn those down, then I can agree with you.
Let me rephrase that, I respect someone who is dumb and tries, but not someone who is smart and won't do the work. Seriously, I have fellow students who are destined to be Mathematicians or Physicists and they got a 12% in Intro Calculus. I did peer tutoring for about a week and it made me so happy when I could tell that kids who were struggling before, were trying after I helped them. There's no more rewarding feeling to me than being part of students' educational experience, and to think that I might be a factor in their discovery of a field for them, just blows my mind. I know that the last case is rare, but the possibility alone is amazing.
One thing that you should also consider is what computer science classes in computer science to take. Computer science is quite a wide field and there are many possibilities. There were some optional CS courses at my school and I would say I got the most basic knowledge by taking those classes.
1. Advanced Object Oriented Programming 2. All about compilers
I definitely learned a lot of CS basics in those classes that I use every day in the field. Anyone who says learn a second language is off. French 101 gets you nothing. If you want to learn a second language the do an exchange program, that's what I did and it was Awesome 101. Anything else is less effective.
I'm not saying these classes are no good in all schools, but to me these classes were gay. 1. group theory 2. GUI design 3. English (Emily Dickinson is so lame)
I definitely learned a lot of CS basics in those classes that I use every day in the field. Anyone who says learn a second language is off. French 101 gets you nothing. If you want to learn a second language the do an exchange program, that's what I did and it was Awesome 101. Anything else is less effective.
Learning a second language via classes does work, but doing an exchange program helps also. If you're really serious about learning another langauge you will do a lot of classes, not just 101, and also visit a country where it is the native language. The point is that if you seriously want to learn a second language, you have to go all out to become fluent through whatever means are available. If you just dip your toe, you won't learn enough for it to be useful.
>:o NOT GAY! (Well, A Separate Peace was pretty gay. But in the good kind of way!)
Learning a second language via classes does work, but doing an exchange program helps also. If you're really serious about learning another langauge you will do a lot of classes, not just 101, and also visit a country where it is the native language. The point is that if you seriously want to learn a second language, you have to go all out to become fluent through whatever means are available. If you just dip your toe, you won't learn enough for it to be useful.
I have another question about CS, would a double major BA degree be fine if CS is the second major? I'm considering doing an Honours BA in Economics and CS. I know a BA in CS is worthless, but how about as a second major where the first is a major in the arts?
Also, a BA in economics? Shouldn't you get a BS in economics also?
Economics is a social science and social sciences get BA degrees. The school is accredited to give their CS program a BS, but the degree isn't focused in CS, it's in Economics. Most Ivy League schools give BAs in Economics or even Math.
I'm just wondering because the line is so blurry of a BSc and a BA, especially in Canada. I was looking at Oxford's website and they only give BAs as far as I can tell. Even Stephen Hawking has a BA in Physics from Oxford.
Comments
Until they mandate technology as the fifth mandatory subject, nothing will change.
If they had real CS teachers, every one of them would be the cool teacher that all the kids love, but inevitably gets in trouble for being too cool for school.
Your major doesn't matter that much. It does matter to some extent that if you want to be a doctor, you should probably take pre-med and then go to medical school. If you want to be a lawyer, you should probably go to law school. For all the other non-specialized work out there, major isn't very important. The CTO at my last job had a philosophy degree. There was an accountant I met once with a history degree. I know programmers who have no degree at all. I know middle managers with engineering degrees.
Getting jobs is really easy if you have any degree at all. Experience is more important than the exact words on your expensive piece of paper. Whether you take math, CS, match and CS, computer engineering, or even physics, you will probably be able to get a job as a Math/CS teacher. The important part is to get a teaching degree afterward, as it is somewhat mandatory in most places.
Take whatever major will give you the most enjoyable classes in college. You're paying a small fortune for it, you should enjoy as much of it as possible. The words on the paper won't have as huge an effect on the rest of your life as people like to tell you it will.
My high school CS teacher on the left. He was the coolest teacher I ever met, as well as the best. Whatever Scott wishes to see in a high school CS teacher, this guy is that and more.
Edit - I'm also the kind of person who will take a dumber person who tries, over someone smart who doesn't try. I actually really respect kids who try their best, even if they're not the brightest.
I just graduated with a Computer Engineering degree and a CS minor, and honestly, they really don't mean much. Scott is right. Experience is the most important thing you'll ever need. When I go into job interviews, they don't care at all about my school work unless it is relevant (like if they ask about embedded systems, since I've only done that academically). They only ask about my previous summer jobs and internships.
My main point is this. Doing a double major is only impressive in the eyes of academia. Which is a good thing if you're planning on getting a Master's or PhD. I can't really say how useful it is for becoming a teacher, but I imagine it matters more in the eyes of who's hiring you than it would be in a regular CS industry. My advice is to try to be as well rounded as you can be. Take classes that can help you in your life outside of work, like the aforementioned athletics, public speaking, and writing. I would also throw in accounting, it's helped me out a lot more than I ever thought it would.
1. Advanced Object Oriented Programming
2. All about compilers
I definitely learned a lot of CS basics in those classes that I use every day in the field. Anyone who says learn a second language is off. French 101 gets you nothing. If you want to learn a second language the do an exchange program, that's what I did and it was Awesome 101. Anything else is less effective.
I'm not saying these classes are no good in all schools, but to me these classes were gay.
1. group theory
2. GUI design
3. English (Emily Dickinson is so lame)
NOT GAY!
(Well, A Separate Peace was pretty gay. But in the good kind of way!) Awww yeah.
Also, a BA in economics? Shouldn't you get a BS in economics also?