9/11 is something to remember. We should show respect for the people who died there, and for anyone who died a meaningless death. However, when you put it in perspective of the entire history of the world, it really bothers me that so much attention is brought to 9/11. If we give this much respect and remembrance for the 3000 people who died on 9/11, we should give 10 times as much for Rwanda, 50 times as much for the people in the Cambodian killing fields, over 100 times as much for the atomic bombs that dropped on Japan, 2000 times as much for the holocaust, and 10,000 times as much forall the other genocidesthroughout history. That's only recent history, not even counting things like crusades or inquisitions. 9/11 is a drop in the bucket in the history of mass murder.
There's nothing wrong with remembering 9/11. It simply that the proportion of attention given to the problem of terrorism is continually disturbing given the kinds of things happening in places like Darfur right now. Terrorism of the nature that we saw on 9/11 is real and significant, but it is the least of our worries.
People keep using the slogan "never forget" for 9/11. I don't believe it. They've already forgotten all the other far more terrible events in history. They've even forgotten Pearl Harbor and Oklahoma City. And that's the worst part of it. By having all these memorials for 9/11, they're pretending to show respect for the people who died there. But really all they are doing is disrespecting those people by using their death as a tool to sway people's political views and get TV ratings. It's really disgusting.
If you want to "never forget" 9/11 properly, start by remembering everything else first. If you feel 9/11 deserves your moment of silence, give a month of silence for everyone else.
And I find that it's more than TV or radio. That's only how people found out unless they were actually there, not how they reacted.
"What was your reaction, way back when...?" is something very different from "Where were you?". And I will continue to find it disrespectful to still act like this 7 years after it happened.
(I don't see how it could make anyone feel bad really)
Last time I checked the word was 'suggestion'.
Wow, Scott, that's ....wow. Nicely put.
Same point, yet you're berating me for it. *thumbs up*
9/11 is something to remember. We should show respect for the people who died there, and for anyone who died a meaningless death. However, when you put it in perspective of the entire history of the world, it really bothers me that so much attention is brought to 9/11. If we give this much respect and remembrance for the 3000 people who died on 9/11, we should give 10 times as much for Rwanda, 50 times as much for the people in the Cambodian killing fields, over 100 times as much for the atomic bombs that dropped on Japan, 2000 times as much for the holocaust, and 10,000 times as much forall the other genocidesthroughout history. That's only recent history, not even counting things like crusades or inquisitions. 9/11 is a drop in the bucket in the history of mass murder.
There's nothing wrong with remembering 9/11. It simply that the proportion of attention given to the problem of terrorism is continually disturbing given the kinds of things happening in places like Darfur right now. Terrorism of the nature that we saw on 9/11 is real and significant, but it is the least of our worries.
People keep using the slogan "never forget" for 9/11. I don't believe it. They've already forgotten all the other far more terrible events in history. They've even forgotten Pearl Harbor and Oklahoma City. And that's the worst part of it. By having all these memorials for 9/11, they're pretending to show respect for the people who died there. But really all they are doing is disrespecting those people by using their death as a tool to sway people's political views and get TV ratings. It's really disgusting.
If you want to "never forget" 9/11 properly, start by remembering everything else first. If you feel 9/11 deserves your moment of silence, give a month of silence for everyone else.
And I find that it's more than TV or radio. That's only how people found out unless they were actually there, not how they reacted.
"What was your reaction, way back when...?" is something very different from "Where were you?". And I will continue to find it disrespectful to still act like this 7 years after it happened.
(I don't see how it could make anyone feel bad really)
Last time I checked the word was 'suggestion'.
Wow, Scott, that's ....wow. Nicely put.
Same point, yet you're berating me for it. *thumbs up*
Actually, I think one of the main reasons 9/11 is remembered is because it is named after the date. It is only named after the date because it happens to match up with the emergency phone number of 911. If Pearl Harbor were named 12/7, because 127 was an important number in our culture, nobody would forget it. If 9/11 were called "tower attack" or something like that, people wouldn't be reminded just by looking at the calendar. They would need an additional reminder.
Actually, I think one of the main reasons 9/11 is remembered is because it is named after the date. It is only named after the date because it happens to match up with the emergency phone number of 911. If Pearl Harbor were named 12/7, because 127 was an important number in our culture, nobody would forget it. If 9/11 were called "tower attack" or something like that, people wouldn't be reminded just by looking at the calendar. They would need an additional reminder.
It's all marketing.
I think it has more to do with the directness of it. People, on the whole, are self-centered beings, and thus tend to remember those things which affect them and no one else. Since we identify as American, we'll be more inclined to remember things that happen to America, as that's who we care about the most. It sucks, but it seems to me to be the way of the world.
I agree with your statement as to the problem of remembrance, though I put genocide and terrorism in different categories of remembrance. The real issue isn't what the attacks represent per se; rather, the fact that things like this still happen serve to perpetuate the divisiveness that spawned them in the first place. They reinforce the "remember only the things that happened to you personally," and prevent us from truly coming together as a people. It depresses me that until we can fix this faulty memory, we'll never be able to build the Tower of Babel and have it stand.
One thing that I've bounced around a lot, and pondered a lot, is RIT's refusal to suspend classes after the attacks. Initially, I was taken aback at the prospect, but after some consideration, I realized that it's the healthiest attitude to have. We need to soldier on after things like this, rather than break down and let it have that much influence over us. I wish more people could realize that, and remember not to continue mourning, but to continue driving us forward and getting past it.
9/11 is something to remember. We should show respect for the people who died there, and for anyone who died a meaningless death. However, when you put it in perspective of the entire history of the world, it really bothers me that so much attention is brought to 9/11. If we give this much respect and remembrance for the 3000 people who died on 9/11, we should give 10 times as much for Rwanda, 50 times as much for the people in the Cambodian killing fields, over 100 times as much for the atomic bombs that dropped on Japan, 2000 times as much for the holocaust, and 10,000 times as much forall the other genocidesthroughout history. That's only recent history, not even counting things like crusades or inquisitions. 9/11 is a drop in the bucket in the history of mass murder.
There's nothing wrong with remembering 9/11. It simply that the proportion of attention given to the problem of terrorism is continually disturbing given the kinds of things happening in places like Darfur right now. Terrorism of the nature that we saw on 9/11 is real and significant, but it is the least of our worries.
People keep using the slogan "never forget" for 9/11. I don't believe it. They've already forgotten all the other far more terrible events in history. They've even forgotten Pearl Harbor and Oklahoma City. And that's the worst part of it. By having all these memorials for 9/11, they're pretending to show respect for the people who died there. But really all they are doing is disrespecting those people by using their death as a tool to sway people's political views and get TV ratings. It's really disgusting.
If you want to "never forget" 9/11 properly, start by remembering everything else first. If you feel 9/11 deserves your moment of silence, give a month of silence for everyone else.
Posted By: AprecheActually, I think one of the main reasons 9/11 is remembered is because it is named after the date. It is only named after the date because it happens to match up with the emergency phone number of 911. If Pearl Harbor were named 12/7, because 127 was an important number in our culture, nobody would forget it. If 9/11 were called "tower attack" or something like that, people wouldn't be reminded just by looking at the calendar. They would need an additional reminder.
It's all marketing.
Scott, the more you post, the more I want to burst into applause.
I was in English class back in high school when my shop teacher poked in and whispered something in my English teacher's ear. In a flash they were both running down the hall to the library (also, it's the first time that I've seen a 60-something run). As expected, the class was left to run riot, which we did. We all knew something big was going on, so most of us wandered to the library. Through the windows we saw the entire staff huddled around the only TV with outside cable, showing footage of the towers smouldering and teetering on the edge of collapse. When I finally got a direct glimpse of the TV through the window, I saw that iconic footage of a man jumping from the hole in (I think) WTC2 to his death.
Um, no. You didn't say the same thing at all. You said
I said I found it disrespectful for people to still be discussing the topic like this, "Where were you?", so did you. I actually had written out several mentions to previous wars and genocides, but because all my posts go through many iterations before I actually post them, said part was left out, because I don't think it would be needed.
I both care and remember.
*facepalm* I don't care what I was doing, and I don't remember what I was doing other than watching the TV! I already said I was probably at home, due to the time difference, when I heard it for the first time. I never fucking said I did not care about the people who died and those left behind, and I do remember the images of the towers collapsing and that it was shocking as hell. I paid my respects by thinking about those things that happened 7 years ago in two minutes of silence. Way to completely get the wrong impression.
You stated it poorly.
Sorry for not being so well-worded in my non-native language.
There are some fundamental differences between Pearl Harbor, Oklahoma City and 9/11.
Pearl Harbor was a long time ago. I suspect that memories of 9/11 will fade, just as they have for Pearl Harbor. Pearl Harbor was also an act of war in the traditional sense. As much as war sucks, it wasn't exactly rare those days. Attacking a military base wasn't a shock to anyone's sense of morality back then.
Oklahoma City happened in... err.. well... Oklahoma. Nothing against Oklahoma, but it's not as prominent as New York. There were also fewer causalities. The biggest difference, though, is that it was done by an American. Along with outrage, there was absolute bewilderment. With 9/11, there was a clear and foreign enemy. It is much easier to "rally around the flag" when the attack was perpetrated in this fashion.
But yes... we've always been myopic when it comes to tragedies. Look at Rwanda. Bill Clinton has admitted that this was one of the biggest mistakes he made while President. The reason he didn't intervene is because he knew that the people would not support it, especially after the mess in Somolia. Look at Darfur. Look at Tibet. And the list just goes on and on...
Pearl Harbor was a long time ago. I suspect that memories of 9/11 will fade, just as they have for Pearl Harbor. Pearl Harbor was also an act of war in the traditional sense. As much as war sucks, it wasn't exactly rare those days. Attacking a military base wasn't a shock to anyone's sense of morality back then.
Murder is murder. Mass murder is a lot of murder all at once. It doesn't matter much to me whether you call it war, terrorism, or genocide. The fact that people are killing other people is all that's really going on. Everything else is just artificial labels placed upon society. It's just another example of language restricting thought and obscuring truth.
As with many people here, I agree wholeheartedly with Scott's post.
I was 11 when it happened, and it didn't phase me too much. I was living in RI, so there was a huge scare that there would be a nuclear attack on NY, Boston, or DC (any of which would have wiped RI off the map), but I felt somewhat numb. So it goes.
What really got to me was the run-up to the Iraq war. I basically lost my faith in the People In Charge, because they were afeared out of their minds.
I was in 5th grade at the time. A teacher from a neighboring room came in and spoke with our teacher, but we didn't really know what was going on. Since my classroom had the lame ass-computer lab in the back, my teacher checked the news on the computer with Internet access (yes, THE computer, told you it was a lame computer lab) and showed us a few pictures of what had happened. One thing he said that I still remember today is was something along the lines of "Today is September 11th. Nobody will ever let you forget this date." It didn't really hit me what had happened--I didn't even know the towers had collapsed--until I got home and watched the news there.
Actually, I think one of the main reasons 9/11 is remembered is because it is named after the date. It is only named after the date because it happens to match up with the emergency phone number of 911. If Pearl Harbor were named 12/7, because 127 was an important number in our culture, nobody would forget it. If 9/11 were called "tower attack" or something like that, people wouldn't be reminded just by looking at the calendar. They would need an additional reminder.
It's all marketing.
No, these sorts of life changing events get engrained in people's minds. Don't believe me, ask your parents where they were when Kennedy was shot.
I was on my way to English class when my friend stopped me in the hall and said a plane had flown into the world trade center. I had no idea to what extent the damage or death toll or even that it was terrorist related until I got home. I remember watching a replay of events earlier in the day. A news station was covering the world trade center, zoomed in on the first tower on fire, saying there had been a horrible accident and they didn't have details on the extra cause. Suddenly the camera zoomed out and panned to the side and the second plane banked into the second tower. I remember thinking that this was a terrorist attack and that the world I knew was changing right now. Scary shit man.
I was in 5th grade and I got up early to watch cartoons, probably Pokemon. My mom comes rushing up to the couch with tears in her eyes saying that we're under attack. She changes the channel on the TV and I see the second plane hit the building. A few minutes later I asked, rather hopefully as I didn't fully understand the repercussions of the situation, if I was going to school that day. She said yes, I must go to school, because what the terrorist want is to disrupt the flow of our life and we have to keep living as we normally would.
There was barely anyone at school that day. There were about five people who were there from my class. The teachers all said they were glad we showed up and gave us an easy day. The playground was surreally empty and quiet during recess, so much that it was chilling. That's the one thing I remember the most about that day and I'm not sure why.
I was in 5th grade and I got up early to watch cartoons, probably Pokemon. My mom comes rushing up to the couch with tears in her eyes saying that we're under attack. She changes the channel on the TV and I see the second plane hit the building. A few minutes later I asked, rather hopefully as I didn't fully understand the repercussions of the situation, if I was going to school that day. She said yes, I must go to school, because what the terrorist want is to disrupt the flow of our life and we have to keep living as we normally would.
There was barely anyone at school that day. There were about five people who were there from my class. The teachers all said they were glad we showed up and gave us an easy day. The playground was surreally empty and quiet during recess, so much that it was chilling. That's the one thing I remember the most about that day and I'm not sure why.
I was in 5th grade at the time. A teacher from a neighboring room came in and spoke with our teacher, but we didn't really know what was going on. Since my classroom had the lame ass-computer lab in the back, my teacher checked the news on the computer with Internet access (yes, THE computer, told you it was a lame computer lab) and showed us a few pictures of what had happened. One thing he said that I still remember today is was something along the lines of "Today is September 11th. Nobody will ever let you forget this date." It didn't really hit me what had happened--I didn't even know the towers had collapsed--until I got home and watched the news there.
As with many people here, I agree wholeheartedly with Scott's post.
I was 11 when it happened, and it didn't phase me too much. I was living in RI, so there was a huge scare that there would be a nuclear attack on NY, Boston, or DC (any of which would have wiped RI off the map), but I felt somewhat numb. So it goes.
What really got to me was the run-up to the Iraq war. I basically lost my faith in the People In Charge, because they were afeared out of their minds.
Wow guys, way to make me feel FUCKING OLD. Thanks a bunch.
I was on my way to school, and walking with my father. My route put me fairly close to the Brooklyn Bridge, so we had a fairly clear view of Manhattan. We were talking about this or that, and all of a sudden, my father stopped walking and looked over at Manhattan. I looked as well, and I saw smoke rising from the towers... we thought it was a fire or something. About 3rd or 4th period, the principal walks in and tells everyone that our parents would be there to pick us up. My father came and got me, my sister, and my friend, and told us what happened on the way home. He told us to watch cartoons or something, but I changed it to the news as soon as he wasn't looking. Later, we went out for dinner with my friend's family (it was my sister's birthday) at the only place that was still open, and I can remember there being a news feed right next to our table, which everyone was looking at constantly and talking about, nervously.
I was a sophomore in high school when it happened. I just remember thinking it was weird that my parents were watching the TV when I went downstairs for breakfast, since they only do that to check school closures due to snow. And I remember standing there watching as the second plane hit, wondering to myself is this was real footage or not. It wasn't until the ride to school and hearing that the towers had fallen to the ground on the radio that I knew it wasn't a lie. Being on the west coast, life didn't seem to be altered any. The same number of students showed up as usual, and aside from my history class, none of the teachers really dwelled in it aside from asking for our prayers (being in a Catholic school, they can do that).
On a side note, I agree with Scott wholeheartedly. To add to that, we've been extremely lucky in this country to have not had any actual wars on our turf since the Civil War. Most other countries can't say that. So, as bad as 9/11 was, it could've been much, much worse.
Ok, it seems like a lot of people have mentioned the idea of adults telling kids not to watch TV, or to watch cartoons instead of the news. What do you guys think about this? Is it a good idea to 'shield' kids from what is going on, or should we let them see what's going on?
Also, TheWhaleShark, you're in your twenties, yes? That's not old. 72 is old. HungryJoe is old. You, sir, are not old.
Ok, it seems like a lot of people have mentioned the idea of adults telling kids not to watch TV, or to watch cartoons instead of the news. What do you guys think about this? Is it a good idea to 'shield' kids from what is going on, or should we let them see what's going on?
Also, TheWhaleShark, you're in your twenties, yes? That's not old. 72 is old. HungryJoe is old. You, sir, are not old.
I'll be 26 in 10 days. Yes, I know I'm not THAT old, but listening to people say "OMG I WAS IN TEH FIF GRADE!! LULZ!!" makes me feel much older than I am.
That, and the the thinning hairline and gray hairs.
Ok, it seems like a lot of people have mentioned the idea of adults telling kids not to watch TV, or to watch cartoons instead of the news. What do you guys think about this? Is it a good idea to 'shield' kids from what is going on, or should we let them see what's going on?
In my opinion, it is better to expose kids to that sort of thing and explain what's going on than to shield them from it, but many parents believe that their kids are either not mature enough to handle it, or they just don't want their kids to be traumatized or scared (understandably).
Ok, it seems like a lot of people have mentioned the idea of adults telling kids not to watch TV, or to watch cartoons instead of the news. What do you guys think about this? Is it a good idea to 'shield' kids from what is going on, or should we let them see what's going on?
In my opinion, it is better to expose kids to that sort of thing and explain what's going on than to shield them from it, but many parents believe that their kids are either not mature enough to handle it, or they just don't want their kids to be traumatized or scared (understandably).
Yeah, I agree. I also think telling kids not to watch the news makes them want to watch it more; that whole forbidden fruit thing comes into play. I don't think it does any permanent damage to them, and it doesn't hurt to be informed.
I was in the technology class in Junior High. I remember that we were doing something that involved putting together legos into various designs. We had been hearing throughout the day that something had been going on in New York involving planes but no one new how big it really was. There was an announcement over the loudspeakers saying something to the effect of there being some kind of plane crash over the city. Later on we all understood what was really going on, and there were a lot of people who were very upset because there parents worked in the city and cell phone's weren't working. My mom came and picked me up from school so i could go home and watch the news coverage on TV.
The thing that irks me about the media-inflated reverence over 9/11 is that everyone remembers but nobody considers. It's all about the terrorists who don't like freedom, and never about the repercussions that a country feels when it doesn't take responsibility for the international actions of its members.
The thing that irks me over the media-inflated reverence over 9/11 is that everyone remembers but nobody considers. It's all about the terrorists who don't like freedom, and never about the repercussions that a country feels when it doesn't take responsibility for the international actions of its members.
The anniversary of the day 3000 people died is not the day to criticize America. You have 364 other days, leave this one be.
9/11 is one of the three times in my life, that I can remember, that all the T.V channels have had wall to wall coverage for a number of hours on a news story. I think this has something to do with why people seem to be able to care about more than other terrible things in history because of the modern age we are living in now and it happened in a place where all that technology could give us coverage that we have never known before. This meant it was all ingrained on our minds, while the other events Scott mentioned weren't or aren't given the same amount of coverage, for example if Pearl Harbor happened tomorrow, it would most likely get the same attention that 9/11 has. The way that 9/11 is viewed has more to do with the age that we live in than the size of the event. Although I also think it's unfair to say that we have forgotten all the other terrible things, we have Remembrance Day for all those that have been lost in all wars and we also have Holocaust Memorial Day for all victims of genocide, (in fact Bolton City Council over here in Britain renamed Holocaust Memorial Day to Genocide Memorial Day but that's a topic for another thread) Oh and for those that are interested the other 2 times that an event has received that amount of live news coverage were 7/7 and the death of Diana.
I was in 5th grade, and around 9:00 or so the science teacher came into our room and signaled our teacher to talk to him in the hall. Since I'm Hard-of-Hearing I have a transmitter that has a mic on the teacher and it's sent to my hearing aids, I could hear the conversation. The teacher came back in and a told the class that something had happen and we started to watch the news in horror, we where only like 10 years old.
I was to young to understand the full scope of this, I only knew that someone out hates America. This was the day that I lost my untainted view of America and realized that there is a much worse world out there because I was sheltered from it all.
All I want to say is that Bush made some bad choices post 9/11, That's all I'm gonna say.
Edit: When went to NYC the next year for family vacation, I remeberd the conversation we had with the locals. The one I remembered the most was some women at a subway stop, said that she remembered the smell of burning flesh.
Comments
It's all marketing.
I agree with your statement as to the problem of remembrance, though I put genocide and terrorism in different categories of remembrance. The real issue isn't what the attacks represent per se; rather, the fact that things like this still happen serve to perpetuate the divisiveness that spawned them in the first place. They reinforce the "remember only the things that happened to you personally," and prevent us from truly coming together as a people. It depresses me that until we can fix this faulty memory, we'll never be able to build the Tower of Babel and have it stand.
One thing that I've bounced around a lot, and pondered a lot, is RIT's refusal to suspend classes after the attacks. Initially, I was taken aback at the prospect, but after some consideration, I realized that it's the healthiest attitude to have. We need to soldier on after things like this, rather than break down and let it have that much influence over us. I wish more people could realize that, and remember not to continue mourning, but to continue driving us forward and getting past it.
I was in English class back in high school when my shop teacher poked in and whispered something in my English teacher's ear. In a flash they were both running down the hall to the library (also, it's the first time that I've seen a 60-something run). As expected, the class was left to run riot, which we did. We all knew something big was going on, so most of us wandered to the library. Through the windows we saw the entire staff huddled around the only TV with outside cable, showing footage of the towers smouldering and teetering on the edge of collapse. When I finally got a direct glimpse of the TV through the window, I saw that iconic footage of a man jumping from the hole in (I think) WTC2 to his death.
Pearl Harbor was a long time ago. I suspect that memories of 9/11 will fade, just as they have for Pearl Harbor. Pearl Harbor was also an act of war in the traditional sense. As much as war sucks, it wasn't exactly rare those days. Attacking a military base wasn't a shock to anyone's sense of morality back then.
Oklahoma City happened in... err.. well... Oklahoma. Nothing against Oklahoma, but it's not as prominent as New York. There were also fewer causalities. The biggest difference, though, is that it was done by an American. Along with outrage, there was absolute bewilderment. With 9/11, there was a clear and foreign enemy. It is much easier to "rally around the flag" when the attack was perpetrated in this fashion.
But yes... we've always been myopic when it comes to tragedies. Look at Rwanda. Bill Clinton has admitted that this was one of the biggest mistakes he made while President. The reason he didn't intervene is because he knew that the people would not support it, especially after the mess in Somolia. Look at Darfur. Look at Tibet. And the list just goes on and on...
I was 11 when it happened, and it didn't phase me too much. I was living in RI, so there was a huge scare that there would be a nuclear attack on NY, Boston, or DC (any of which would have wiped RI off the map), but I felt somewhat numb. So it goes.
What really got to me was the run-up to the Iraq war. I basically lost my faith in the People In Charge, because they were afeared out of their minds.
I was on my way to English class when my friend stopped me in the hall and said a plane had flown into the world trade center. I had no idea to what extent the damage or death toll or even that it was terrorist related until I got home. I remember watching a replay of events earlier in the day. A news station was covering the world trade center, zoomed in on the first tower on fire, saying there had been a horrible accident and they didn't have details on the extra cause. Suddenly the camera zoomed out and panned to the side and the second plane banked into the second tower. I remember thinking that this was a terrorist attack and that the world I knew was changing right now. Scary shit man.
There was barely anyone at school that day. There were about five people who were there from my class. The teachers all said they were glad we showed up and gave us an easy day. The playground was surreally empty and quiet during recess, so much that it was chilling. That's the one thing I remember the most about that day and I'm not sure why.
On a side note, I agree with Scott wholeheartedly. To add to that, we've been extremely lucky in this country to have not had any actual wars on our turf since the Civil War. Most other countries can't say that. So, as bad as 9/11 was, it could've been much, much worse.
Also, TheWhaleShark, you're in your twenties, yes? That's not old. 72 is old. HungryJoe is old. You, sir, are not old.
That, and the the thinning hairline and gray hairs.
The way that 9/11 is viewed has more to do with the age that we live in than the size of the event.
Although I also think it's unfair to say that we have forgotten all the other terrible things, we have Remembrance Day for all those that have been lost in all wars and we also have Holocaust Memorial Day for all victims of genocide, (in fact Bolton City Council over here in Britain renamed Holocaust Memorial Day to Genocide Memorial Day but that's a topic for another thread)
Oh and for those that are interested the other 2 times that an event has received that amount of live news coverage were 7/7 and the death of Diana.
I was to young to understand the full scope of this, I only knew that someone out hates America. This was the day that I lost my untainted view of America and realized that there is a much worse world out there because I was sheltered from it all.
All I want to say is that Bush made some bad choices post 9/11, That's all I'm gonna say.
Edit: When went to NYC the next year for family vacation, I remeberd the conversation we had with the locals. The one I remembered the most was some women at a subway stop, said that she remembered the smell of burning flesh.