It was great hearing your thoughts on Eva. Back when you first announced your plans to do this show I watched the whole thing in a marathon. I do admit I used to be one of those you mentioned who thought the last two episodes were a "cop out" because of a lack of animation budget. You've helped me to see the series in a way that I had only started to see it before. So thank you
There are only 6 know members of SEELE at the beginning, where did the others magically come out of is the real question?
The original six members were actually the UN Nerv Oversight Committee (who just happen to be members of Seele). As the events of the show get more serious and come to a real head, they drop the pretension of acting through official channels and start communicating directly with the leaders of Nerv as Seele. The other Seele memebers were there all along, they just didn't have authority over Nerv in an official, public capacity.
I just want to know, where did you get the idea that the SEELE group were piloting the MP EVAs? Sure, I understand your points (Extention of their will, beyond a point SEELE withdraw from view entirely behind obscurity and only by the farmilliar voice do you recognise them, and the only reappearance is Kehl at the end as he joyfully accepts what is happening partially by his hand) but I really wonder where you thought that they were actually piloting the constructs. Just curious.
I can appreciate that you wanted to avoid talking about the movies for this episode, and that is a really good idea because bringing up the movies usually seems to hit a crazy switch in people to utterly ignore the content of both movie and series and jump straight to "HOLY CRAP WHAT HAPPENED I'M INCREDULOUS." Which is a shame.
Its nice to have a podcast, even with all the gushing, that affirms the thoughts I have had for Evangelion since watching it years ago on sci-fi channel here in the UK, and then scrambling like a mad man to watch it all. I think, sadly, its the crazy switch to incredulity that stops people actually watching the show and taking it in rather than sitting there and going "Hurr, everyone dies, this is messed up/silly!"
As an aside, what do you think of the Rebuild movies?
I definitely have more of an appreciation for the first 24 episodes of Eva after listening to this. I originally found those episodes to be good, but not great. It's definitely closer to great now (probably need to watch it again.) But I did find those last two episodes to be brilliant though.
I would argue, as a side point, that some of the best episodes of Star Trek communicate their message in a far, far better way than Eva does
I'd like to see some examples, because the cinematography and soundtracks in Star Trek have always been incredibly generic. I all the years I've watched it, I don't think I ever once thought anything like "Wow, that was an amazingly put-together scene." The acting is average for the most part, and never once was Star Trek (in any non-movie iteration) ever able to elicit a strong emotion in me. Suffice to say, I'm dubious. ^_~
I will get back to you on this. Unfortunately, I do not have the time to check my tapes and DVDs tonight, but I shall over the weekend.
As an aside, what do you think of the Rebuild movies?
Did not watch yet.
Personally I love the first rebuild movie 'Evangelion: 1.0 You Are (Not) Alone' it was nice to see some very very minor things that I noticed about the show put in and explained, but most of all i love that over half the movie is dedicated to the 5th angel Ramiel. Ramiel in the T.V. show was a box/diamond, but now it is a multi-dimensional fortress.
As an aside, what do you think of the Rebuild movies?
Did not watch yet.
Personally I love the first rebuild movie 'Evangelion: 1.0 You Are (Not) Alone' it was nice to see some very very minor things that I noticed about the show put in and explained, but most of all i love that over half the movie is dedicated to the 5th angel Ramiel. Ramiel in the T.V. show was a box/diamond, but now it is a multi-dimensional fortress.
Not only that, but since the pace was much faster, it was much more exciting to watch. I think I actually got a shiver down my spine during the sniper scene.
In my experience, people who whinge about Eva simply think they can elevate their geek status by criticizing one of the most respected anime. "Look how cool I am," they say. "I'm so cool that I think Eva is overrated. Yep, that's how cool I am." They are the equivalent of beret- and black-sweater-wearing college coffeehouse-goers who feel compelled to constantly sulk in a corner and reference Sarte.
To the haters' credit, I'm not exactly comfortable with a series that cranks up the angst knob and yanks it off about halfway through the series, or having such a passive hero. While I might see Evangelion if only because it's become the anime Citizen Kane, it's not the show for me.
I can only think with amusement about the amount of... self masturbation that goes on over Eva even to this day and at times it annoys me so.
You could say the same thing about Hamlet. In fact, since anime fandom is such a tiny thing, you could say it a thousand times moreover about Hamlet. Does it annoy you that people endlessly dissect Hamlet? Isn't there somethingtoa work that draws continual attention, analysis, and discussion?
Well now, they don't go "ZOMG tEH GERTUDE FAP FAP FAP FAP" (sic) now do they?
I had no idea Hakushon Daimaou would be in the Wii version of Tatsunoko VS Capcom!!! Incidently, it did come out in English as "Bob In A Bottle" around about the time as Samurai Pizza Cats.
There is not alot I can say that has not already been said before about Evangelion. The only advise I can give to other fans of this anime is do not, I repeat, do not show this to someone who has never watched anime before, especially Death and Rebirth episode first. They will look at you and ask what the F** was that , and think that is what all anime is like in general. This episode is hard to grasp even for the most avid anime fan.
I like the Nerv parts and the way unit 01 does its' thing. I think it's great that they try every non Eva way to stop the angels before using the Evas and the atmosphere of desperation with every encouter. I think it's alright for Shinji to be afraid of the Eva when he discovers what the Eva is. Kaji is the man.
I think the show spends too much time with Shinji. The show lags a bit in the middle and entire episodes are kinda lame. I just feel that Eva could have been the most awesome robot show instead of a "what it means to be human" show.
Your timing on this is scary. I was looking into TV tropes the other day, found a reference to something, wound up in Wiki, and suddenly got all nostalgic. I found myself remembering several of the scenes you mentioned.
I first watched Eva about a decade ago, when I was in my late 20s, and before I really got into working with Otakon. A *lot* has happened since then in my evolution as an anime nerd.
But I haven't watched it all the way through in about 5 years -- about a year after the DVD box set came out, IIRC -- and suddenly I wondered whether I still liked it. Sometimes tastes changed -- and some of the old stuff looks really dated (watched most of Bubblegum Crisis recently) and doesn't necessarily hold up as well. Would Evangelion, that seriously groundbreaking series that gave me a good mind-farking when I was in my 20s, hold up as I am finishing my 30s?
Now, I just ordered the first four seasons of Gatchaman (ah, the memories of G-Force/Battle of the Planets as a kid!), one of those box sets ful of Rumiko Takahashi short works, and am currently watching Cowboy Bebop (finally bough the DVD set). AVATAR and Torchwood await me in a few days.
I very nearly dropped all that to watch Eva again after hearing this podcast. Bastards.
How can you reconcile your comments 'people who dislike it don't get it' and 'maybe you don't like it, but that doesn't mean its bad?' If most people who dislike it didn't get the point, I would say that it did not communicate its point effectively, and that is a sign of being bad. It's not the viewer's responsibility to go out of their way to watch movies, read interviews, etc, just to be able to understand a show either. It should stand on its own.
How can you reconcile your comments 'people who dislike it don't get it' and 'maybe you don't like it, but that doesn't mean its bad?' If most people who dislike it didn't get the point, I would say that it did not communicate its point effectively, and that is a sign of being bad. It's not the viewer's responsibility to go out of their way to watch movies, read interviews, etc, just to be able to understand a show either. It should stand on its own.
Plenty of people don't "get" Citizen Kane, The Mona Lisa, Watchmen, Shakespeare's plays, or many other works of art that are all-time greats. What you are saying is true. Yes, there is a point at which a work doesn't communicate its point effectively, and is therefore flawed in that way. However, there is also a point at which you can blame the person viewing the art for being too inept to get it.
I used to also think that Eva was too obtuse, and understood where the people who didn't get it were coming from. Upon watching the show again I realize the show is incredibly straightforward. They aren't obtuse at all. They say absolutely everything in plain Japanese (English). Everything is spelled out for you. Upon this most recent watching, I can no longer understand how people can't get it.
When I first time saw Evangelion, I really didn't get most of it. At that time it was mostly huge robot(s) beating up huge monsters and there were some weird stuff around it that I didn't really get. That was at the early times of my anime watching. I watched it second time last summer (or spring, don't really remember). I got a lot more about it than in the first time, but even at that time I felt that I didn't get everything and listening this episode made me really feel stupid of not getting some things that you said to be really clear for anyone who pays any attention. Maybe when I watch it again third time in some distant future.
Okay, I have a Star Trek episode to try. It's an episode of Next Generation in Season 5 called the Inner Light. I won't spoil the story, and I would ask that no one else do it either. You can get it on Netflix by going here and selecting the last disc of the season. I personally have it on the Jean-Luc Picard collection, but that's not available through Netflix.
Comments
I just want to know, where did you get the idea that the SEELE group were piloting the MP EVAs? Sure, I understand your points (Extention of their will, beyond a point SEELE withdraw from view entirely behind obscurity and only by the farmilliar voice do you recognise them, and the only reappearance is Kehl at the end as he joyfully accepts what is happening partially by his hand) but I really wonder where you thought that they were actually piloting the constructs. Just curious.
I can appreciate that you wanted to avoid talking about the movies for this episode, and that is a really good idea because bringing up the movies usually seems to hit a crazy switch in people to utterly ignore the content of both movie and series and jump straight to "HOLY CRAP WHAT HAPPENED I'M INCREDULOUS." Which is a shame.
Its nice to have a podcast, even with all the gushing, that affirms the thoughts I have had for Evangelion since watching it years ago on sci-fi channel here in the UK, and then scrambling like a mad man to watch it all. I think, sadly, its the crazy switch to incredulity that stops people actually watching the show and taking it in rather than sitting there and going "Hurr, everyone dies, this is messed up/silly!"
As an aside, what do you think of the Rebuild movies?
Can't wait!
The only advise I can give to other fans of this anime is do not, I repeat, do not show this to someone who has never watched anime before, especially Death and Rebirth episode first. They will look at you and ask what the F** was that , and think that is what all anime is like in general. This episode is hard to grasp even for the most avid anime fan.
I realize Death and Rebirth is one of the movies, but for me it's another episode that is part of the series.
I think the show spends too much time with Shinji. The show lags a bit in the middle and entire episodes are kinda lame. I just feel that Eva could have been the most awesome robot show instead of a "what it means to be human" show.
With the way Eva had an impact on anime in general so do you think that we can separate anime in a Before Eva/After Eva way?
I first watched Eva about a decade ago, when I was in my late 20s, and before I really got into working with Otakon. A *lot* has happened since then in my evolution as an anime nerd.
But I haven't watched it all the way through in about 5 years -- about a year after the DVD box set came out, IIRC -- and suddenly I wondered whether I still liked it. Sometimes tastes changed -- and some of the old stuff looks really dated (watched most of Bubblegum Crisis recently) and doesn't necessarily hold up as well. Would Evangelion, that seriously groundbreaking series that gave me a good mind-farking when I was in my 20s, hold up as I am finishing my 30s?
Now, I just ordered the first four seasons of Gatchaman (ah, the memories of G-Force/Battle of the Planets as a kid!), one of those box sets ful of Rumiko Takahashi short works, and am currently watching Cowboy Bebop (finally bough the DVD set). AVATAR and Torchwood await me in a few days.
I very nearly dropped all that to watch Eva again after hearing this podcast. Bastards.
If most people who dislike it didn't get the point, I would say that it did not communicate its point effectively, and that is a sign of being bad. It's not the viewer's responsibility to go out of their way to watch movies, read interviews, etc, just to be able to understand a show either. It should stand on its own.
I used to also think that Eva was too obtuse, and understood where the people who didn't get it were coming from. Upon watching the show again I realize the show is incredibly straightforward. They aren't obtuse at all. They say absolutely everything in plain Japanese (English). Everything is spelled out for you. Upon this most recent watching, I can no longer understand how people can't get it.
I watched it second time last summer (or spring, don't really remember). I got a lot more about it than in the first time, but even at that time I felt that I didn't get everything and listening this episode made me really feel stupid of not getting some things that you said to be really clear for anyone who pays any attention. Maybe when I watch it again third time in some distant future.