The only difference is that the government can take your money by force, while Bear Stearns couldn't.
Yes, but I can't vote out the Board of Executives of Bear Stearns. That concerns me a lot more than any force the government might employ to take my paltry few sheckels.
As far as that government debt. may I remind you that the Republicans (who are always so good at managing money) waged a war and cut taxes AT THE SAME TIME. No one has ever done that before. That stupid mistake doesn't mean that government spending is always bad.
The only difference is that the government can take your money by force, while Bear Stearns couldn't.
Yes, but I can't vote out the Board of Executives of Bear Stearns. That concerns me a lot more than any force the government might employ to take my paltry few sheckels.
Actually I think you could have if you were a share holder.
I think we're afraid cause it generally doesn't work on a country the scale of the United States. Look what happened to the Soviet Union. That's not the say that it doesn't happen in America. The beauty of the USA is that states have a lot of say in how they rule their regions. For example, New Jersey residents pay considerably higher property taxes than we in Pennsylvania do and the NJ government does more for its people. California has much stricter gun laws than Georgia. I think it can work at a state level if it's what the people of the state want.
Calm down a bit there. My opposition to socialism is that it's inherently self-sacrificing, regardless of the wonderful flowery benefits you get. It's not that I don't care about other people, but that I don't want government making that decision for me, and socialism is a form of government. You want to help people out? By all means go ahead and donate all you want; if I want to help people that's what I do. Plus, even if government's solution would be to eliminate feeloading or whatever the claim is, the fact remains that it's still big, overbearing government that's telling me how to spend my money. That's something I don't want to accept.
First off, you have no fucking say over your taxes. If your government wants to use its tax income on paving the entire country with concrete, you have no say over it. If they want to use the money to go to war, you have no say over it. If they want to use the money to help human beings, YOU HAVE NO SAY OVER IT. You have no voice when it comes to the way taxes are spend, other than voting for ONE person. You pay taxes so that you can drive on maintained roads, so that your country protects you from outside dangers, yet you don't want them to use those taxes to be able and catch you when you fall? And what's this bull-shit about "inherently self-sacrificing" and "donate all you want; if I want to help people that's what I do.". Donating is just as self-sacrifing, only you help only a small hand of people with it, and you don't do it on a regular basis, whereas socialism provides a CONSTANT level of help for those who need it. And you don't have to do a bloody thing to help people compared to donating. And besides, how often do you donate money? My bet is that you would buy a television instead of donating that money to help people. People can NOT be trusted with helping other people, very, very few people are actually kind and care for people, and help people. Without government support entire families have to pray to an imaginary deity in the hopes that they will be able to afford the rent next month.
There are plenty of examples that prove that socialist insurance clogs the system and causes more inadequacies in terms of things like medical care, which is what I'm assuming you're referencing. Jason pretty much said it in regards to this.
No, that's not what I was referencing. What I was referencing was the fact that you do NOT have a basic insurance in the United States of America. I do not instantly have to panic that I will no longer be able to pay my tuition were I to break my arm tomorrow from an unlucky fall. All because I get government support for an insurance so that I can afford one and thus be able to go to the dentist every half year and not worry about instantly falling into financial distress.
The only difference is that the government can take your money by force, while Bear Stearns couldn't.
Yes, but I can't vote out the Board of Executives of Bear Stearns. That concerns me a lot more than any force the government might employ to take my paltry few sheckels.
Actually I think you could have if you were a share holder.
Oh, so you think a shareholder has the same "one man, one vote" franchise as a U.S. citizen. That's cute. Take your one share of Bear Stearns and try to vote it against Mr. Running Dog Capitalist's 50,000 shares and see how that turns out for you.
First off, you have no fucking say over your taxes. If your government wants to use its tax income on paving the entire country with concrete, you have no say over it. If they want to use the money to go to war, you have no say over it. If they want to use the money to help human beings, YOU HAVE NO SAY OVER IT. You have no voice when it comes to the way taxes are spend, other than voting for ONE person.
Ummm, we're a Republic. That's just how we do things. And we actually can do something about it. The first amendment of our constitution gives us the right to petition congress for the redress of grievances. If we the people really wanted to stop the war in Iraq, we could.
No, that's not what I was referencing. What I was referencing was the fact that you do NOT have a basic insurance in the United States of America. I do not instantly have to panic that I will no longer be able to pay my tuition were I to break my arm tomorrow from an unlucky fall. All because I get government support for an insurance so that I can afford one and thus be able to go to the dentist every half year and not worry about instantly falling into financial distress.
A question, who are you voting for this election?
You can buy insurance coverage from any number of private companies. I get mine very affordably through my school.
Oh, so you think a shareholder has the same "one man, one vote" franchise as a U.S. citizen. That's cute. Take your one share of Bear Stearns and try to vote it against Mr. Running Dog Capitalist's 50,000 shares and see how that turns out for you.
I didn't say you'd have great success, but your share does give you a "vote."
Ummm, we're a Republic. That's just how we do things. And we actually can do something about it. The first amendment of our constitution gives us the right to petition congress for the redress of grievances. If we the people really wanted to stop the war in Iraq, we could.
Half the fucking country says the war is a stupid idea, yet you don't do a fucking thing while you apparently can. If you don't use that entire constitution why the hell have it? It's as good as not having, and not being able to do a damned thing about it.
You can buy insurance coverage from any number of private companies. I get mine very affordably through my school.
:DESKHEAD: Read that 200 times, done that? Okay, insurances here are also from private companies. Read the words "government support" again and process what the fuck they mean. Also, you school acts in basically the same way as a government, nice no?
Half the fucking country says the war is a stupid idea, yet you don't do a fucking thing while you apparently can. If you don't use that entire constitution why the hell have it? It's as good as not having, and not being able to do a damned thing about it.
Don't look at me, I'm for the war. If they wanna stop the war, they can try.
:DESKHEAD: Read that 200 times, done that? Okay, insurances here are also from private companies. Read the words "government support" again and process what the fuck they mean. Also, you school acts in basically the same way as a government, nice no?
:middlefinger: It's supported by my state government.
The first amendment of our constitution gives us the right to petition congress for the redress of grievances. If we the people really wanted to stop the war in Iraq, we could.
What do you think that means? Do you think that we can all get together and call a moratorium on Iraq? Do you think we have the right to vote for federal ballot initiatives?
You can buy insurance coverage from any number of private companies. I get mine very affordably through my school.
You get it affordably because your school has a deal with that insurance company. Try paying for it when you're older, on your own, and have kids.
Oh, so you think a shareholder has the same "one man, one vote" franchise as a U.S. citizen. That's cute. Take your one share of Bear Stearns and try to vote it against Mr. Running Dog Capitalist's 50,000 shares and see how that turns out for you.
I didn't say you'd have great success, but your share does give you a "vote."
. . . and that vote is useles to throw out the Board when they and all their buddies have more "votes" than you and any supporters you have ever will.
:DESKHEAD: Read that 200 times, done that? Okay, insurances here are also from private companies. Read the words "government support" again and process what the fuck they mean. Also, you school acts in basically the same way as a government, nice no?
:middlefinger: It's supported by my state government.
Don't look at me, I'm for the war. If they wanna stop the war, they can try.
Calling you out. So, you're supporting a war that your government lied to you to start (meaning, presumably, you're willing to shill out the cash-dollars to support it), but you reject the idea that your next-door neighbor deserves health care, despite only working a minimum-wage job. Thoughts?
This is the state of our great republic: We've nationalized the financial system, taking control from Wall Street bankers we no longer trust. We're about to quasi-nationalize the Detroit auto companies via massive loans because they're a source of American pride, and too many jobs — and votes — are at stake. Our Social Security system is going broke as we head for a future in which too many retirees will be supported by too few workers. How long before we have national health care? Put it all together, and the America that emerges is a cartoonish version of the country most despised by red-meat red-state patriots: France. Only with worse food.
The same people who argue against socialism would never argue against the police, fire or medical emergency services. However, if you even mention spending money on people to help them get a operation or medication they desperately need to live then they seem to be very angry about it, proclaiming the government has no right to decide what to spend their money on.
If people are really against socialism, shouldn't they be fighting for privatised emergency services? Or is it that they just don't want socialism when it doesn't benefit themselves financially... that's all it comes down to in the end. As long as THEY are okay, fuck everyone else.
C'mon guys, let's try to be constructive. He's stated he supports the war, let's find out why before we start jumping on him.
I'm not jumping on him. I'm just saying I think it's a joke. I consider gedavids to be a sane man, and no sane man would support the war, let alone at this point. I would be really disappointed if he's serious about it though.
I'm not jumping on him. I'm just saying I think it's a joke. I consider gedavids to be a sane man, and no sane man would support the war, let alone at this point.
Actually, it's quite the opposite. I hated the war when it started. I knew I was being lied to. However, we've made the mess and now we have to finish cleaning it up. The region would descend into chaos if we just left. So yeah, didn't like it, wouldn't have voted for it. I voted out the republicans in 2006 for all the sucking they've done. However, I do support actually paying for this war with tax dollars and federal bonds. I don't like this BS of being in debt to China.
Actually, it's quite the opposite. I hated the war when it started. I knew I was being lied to. However, we've made the mess and now we have to finish cleaning it up. The region would descend into chaos if we just left. So yeah, didn't like it, wouldn't have voted for it. I voted out the republicans in 2006 for all the sucking they've done. However, I do support actually paying for this war with tax dollars and federal bonds. I don't like this BS of being in debt to China.
Aaaah, so you are not 'for the war', you're for a proper end of the war. Also, who says the countries would descend into chaos if you left?
I hated the war when it started. I knew I was being lied to. However, we've made the mess and now we have to finish cleaning it up.
Ah, okay. I see where you're coming from now. That's legitimate; in fact I agree with you. High-tailing it out of there without properly moving authority over to a stable Iraqi government would be a huge mistake. Thanks for the clarification.
Actually, it's quite the opposite. I hated the war when it started. I knew I was being lied to. However, we've made the mess and now we have to finish cleaning it up. The region would descend into chaos if we just left. So yeah, didn't like it, wouldn't have voted for it. I voted out the republicans in 2006 for all the sucking they've done. However, I do support actually paying for this war with tax dollars and federal bonds. I don't like this BS of being in debt to China.
Aaaah, so you are not 'for the war', you're for a proper end of the war. Also, who says the countries would descend into chaos if you left?
I guess that's a better way to phrase it. As for the chaos, that's just what everything I read on the state of Iraq said. Right now though, the country is actually starting to come together and stand on its own feet. So the war in Iraq is drawing to a close now.
Aaaah, so you are not 'for the war', you're for a proper end of the war. Also, who says the countries would descend into chaos if you left?
Thousands of years of history between the Sunni and Shia tribes.
Aaaah, never heard about those. What was the situation like before the US marched in? Also chaos? I'm asking because I never cared about what happened there and thus I don't know.
I think gedavids' (is that correct, grammatically?) example about his insurance is laughable. Gedavids, do you realize that your state-supported insurance program is, in effect, socialized medicine? Your state is subsidizing the cost of the plan that the insurance company would otherwise charge you. That's the point of socialized medicine: students and other low income people have the right to cheap/free insurance. That's....the point.
Aaaah, never heard about those. What was the situation like before the US marched in? Also chaos? I'm asking because I never cared about what happened there and thus I don't know.
Seriously? You should just stop talking about foreign policy right now until you learn BASIC history of the middle east. I heard a 2nd grade class in a local elementary school is giving lectures on it next week, why don't you stop by?
I find an invasion of Iran highly unlikely. Plus that would go very badly for Iran. Iraq sucks so much cause we have to play body guard for the populace. Iran however a country.......we're very good at waging war with a country. I might even enlist if that war breaks out, Iran is a bastard.
Seriously? You should just stop talking about foreign policy right now until you learn BASIC history of the middle east. I heard a 2nd grade class in a local elementary school is giving lectures on it next week, why don't you stop by?
My History classes were not geared towards US-interested topics. Instead they were geared towards Netherlands-interested topics. We colonized Indonesia, not Iraq. And besides, History isn't my strongest, preferred or enjoyed subject.
Comments
As far as that government debt. may I remind you that the Republicans (who are always so good at managing money) waged a war and cut taxes AT THE SAME TIME. No one has ever done that before. That stupid mistake doesn't mean that government spending is always bad.
BTW, Mr. Katana is the winner of this thread.
I think we're afraid cause it generally doesn't work on a country the scale of the United States. Look what happened to the Soviet Union. That's not the say that it doesn't happen in America. The beauty of the USA is that states have a lot of say in how they rule their regions. For example, New Jersey residents pay considerably higher property taxes than we in Pennsylvania do and the NJ government does more for its people. California has much stricter gun laws than Georgia. I think it can work at a state level if it's what the people of the state want.
A question, who are you voting for this election?
The same people who argue against socialism would never argue against the police, fire or medical emergency services. However, if you even mention spending money on people to help them get a operation or medication they desperately need to live then they seem to be very angry about it, proclaiming the government has no right to decide what to spend their money on.
If people are really against socialism, shouldn't they be fighting for privatised emergency services? Or is it that they just don't want socialism when it doesn't benefit themselves financially... that's all it comes down to in the end. As long as THEY are okay, fuck everyone else.
Tune in next week when we return to Afghanistan!
I think gedavids' (is that correct, grammatically?) example about his insurance is laughable. Gedavids, do you realize that your state-supported insurance program is, in effect, socialized medicine? Your state is subsidizing the cost of the plan that the insurance company would otherwise charge you. That's the point of socialized medicine: students and other low income people have the right to cheap/free insurance. That's....the point.