I wanted to talk about a different issue. I saw this post on the Movies You Should See forum and think it's probably what's bringing the FRCF down the most:
I signed up for the forum, with a totally unnecessary but heartfelt message explaining why I love Geeknights, and looked forward to getting to know the community and - as mentioned before - getting deeper into this new stuff I was getting turned on to. I posted an intro on the "Identify Yourself" thread, and the FIRST response I got from another member was a sarcastic welcome, with the last word highlighted as a hyperlink. I clicked on it, and was taken to a Wikipedia page on the correct usage of the ellipsis. I guess my dot dot dot way of ending a lot of my posts was against one of the million rules that the forum enforces with regards to punctuation and grammar. Now, I don't care what culture or clique you are part of, that was downright fucking rude. Further investigation of the threads and various members revealed that there aren't so much friends but anally retentive competitors on the site.
He's a new member, introducing himself on the ''identify yourself thread'' and he gets hosed for the incorrect use of ellipsis. That kind of grammatical error is hardly serious and because of the response he got he says he won't be coming back.
It seems a few people in here are using the strict grammar policy to stroke their own egos by enforcing it. I suggest a new warning banner that reads ''I am on probation until i learn how to interact with others''.
Being the person who made the 'rude' response I wish to react to this and clear it up. But first, I still do not understand what punctuation has to do with being a geek. Other than if you consider yourself to be a grammar geek, which I doubt is the kind of geek he means.
He did not get hosed. On the contrary. If I recall correctly his post in question ended with the ellipsis equivalent of "!!!!!!!!!!!!!" (with an optional 1 in there). There is no need for that much nonsense. My main goal with linking to the Wikipedia article was to quickly point out that there is no need for stupid overuse of punctuation and to inform people of the existence of the ellipsis, since I find it to be a very fancy punctuation mark (just like the interrobang is fancy, sadly that's rarely used). Hell, I did not even note the use of multiple exclamation marks, which have no real use either. This partly because 2 or 3 exclamation marks have become somewhat accepted, still, more than that is stupid nonsense and indicates nothing but someone just holding down the specific key for no good reason. I feel perfectly justified in thinking that he would have much to say other than this forum's equivalent of "OMFG LOL!!!!11!".
If he's that easily offended, and resorts to name calling and exaggerating his 'loss', I would not want to be in any discussion with him, because it appears that he is not capable of normal discussion. At least, not from the little I've seen of him. And really, as Rym said, if we wish to have correct spelling and the proper use of grammar even remotely enforced on this forum we need to be blunt and harsh, no exceptions. A good hard slap at first, and then correctional pokes. Really, if we don't, then we get another case like Morio-kun before we started hitting him with a hot branding iron. Now he posts better, which is great.
He may find it rude, I find it to be bluntly honest with a cruel joke for those who catch it. Which is me and I don't think anyone else, since it's a personal joke. As for 'stroke their own egos', what? I have requested explanations for grammatical corrections done to posts I made, I claim to be bad in English since I'm not a language buff and it's my second language. Perhaps I am so harsh and cruel because English is my second language. I want people to understand me, so I do my best to write an as well as I can post, one that is hopefully coherent, explains my point and is readable because of the use of proper spelling, a spell checker and the English grammar knowledge that I posses. If I demand this of myself, I will also demand if from everyone else because there is very, very little that aggravates me more than being misunderstood.
It's just about each persons world view, they see the world how they want it to be and nothing else matters. It's that "I wouldn't want to live in a world where there was no god" plea. They are brought up to think of the world in a certain way and the idea of anything else is scary and uncomfortable, so regardless of what anyone ever says or shows them, that world view will trump it and they will rationalize a way to make the evidence fit how they think the world operates.
Eventually there are people like us, who want to see the world for how it really is. We have realized life isn't terrifying without a deity or an afterlife and we (at least I have) taken a lot from that and grown as an individual, knowing that this is all I will ever get, it makes each moment precious. But people will still always have that world-view.
Einstein hated quantum mechanics for the longest time, refusing to accept that the nature atoms were unimaginable for us, impossible to visualize. Eventually he had to accept it, after helping to develop it so much by proving it wrong. Some people rely on their world view for everything... we still have people who believe the earth is flat.
Please note how the post that we're talking about, that is, Crucialtaunt's first post, not the by you linked SaintCrazy's Safari crash post, is edited to have an ellipsis. Do you really think I did not double check before I made that comment?
Seriously now, how dare you even hint at a comparison between me and Steve.
If he's that easily offended, and resorts to name calling and exaggerating his 'loss', I would not want to be in any discussion with him, because it appears that he is not capable of normal discussion.
People taking easy offense at correction and/or suggestion in this forum seems to occasionally be quite exaggerated. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be civil about the corrections. Also, I don't think we can really stop people from overreacting, but I agree that it shouldn't stop us from pointing out the problems or making suggestions. If someone is such a baby that they cannot take some harsh questioning or correction, then perhaps they should not participate in a forum where such practices are typical.
If I demand this of myself, I will also demand if from everyone else...
I totally agree with this. I don't bitch and moan when people attack my statements; instead I either a)logically and methodically attempt to explain, or b)make the appropriate correction/concession. I expect the same of others.
Yes, we expect people to put effort into writing properly and reading the posts before theirs so that they can contribute value. Yes, some people are going to overreact when they are criticized. I personally generally choose to ignore that kind of overreaction, rather than find a way to punish it. When it gets no reaction, it usually goes away.
*edit: I wish to specify that I am not condoning acting like an asshole about grammar. I only do that with my close friends.
You were a total dick about it, though. Even in your follow up response you managed to slip in a subtle derogatory remark implying that he posts on Gaia when he even mentioned that this was the only other forum he's ever signed up for. Your self-righteous ego-boner stroke cost the forum an entire member. Glad to see you've justified it.
You were a total dick about it, though. Even in your follow up response you managed to slip in a subtle derogatory remark implying that he posts on Gaia when he even mentioned that this was the only other forum he's ever signed up for. Your self-righteous ego-boner stroke cost the forum an entire member. Glad to see you've justified it.
Yeah, it was kind of a dick move to go up against a newcomer like that.
For the record, not ALL people on Gaia post that way. There are literate areas. Implying that someone posts on Gaia shouldn't be an insult in itself. It started out as a forum RP community, and it still has a large literate RP base. It's just that now you have to FIND them among the chaff that has gathered.
You were a total dick about it, though. Even in your follow up response you managed to slip in a subtle derogatory remark implying that he posts on Gaia when he even mentioned that this was the only other forum he's ever signed up for.
What do you expect with the overly exaggerated whine he replied with. At that point I don't care about whether he has never signed up for Gaia or not, he acted like a kid who got his sucker stolen.
cost the forum an entire member.
Wooopti-fucking-dooo, did it kill someone? Did it end the world? No, all my post did was make one person angry because they cannot take a little blunt response. Way to make an elephant out of a mosquito there.
Wooopti-fucking-dooo, did it kill someone? Did it end the world? No, all my post did was make one person angry because they cannot take a little blunt response. Way to make an elephant out of a mosquito there.
No his case is just symbolic of the problem and he articulated it. There is a very small minority on here, including you, who act like dickheads on a daily basis. This annoys me and disrupts my enjoyment of the forum because I get ticked off every time I come across this type of post. Of course I'm just one forum member too (and not a very active one) but from this thread it seems I'm not alone.
One other suggestion for the implementation of any moderation system: only allow the moderators to do the moderating (the serious moderating, anyhow). In other words, forumites shouldn't be moderating other forum members, especially to the point of driving new members away. Make moderation by non-mods a probation-worthy offense, and repeated offenses bannable.
You all seem to be very confused as to what moderation or a "moderation system" entails.
Think Slashdot. No one edits posts or deletes anything: posts simply get a "quality" ranking based on randomized democratic moderation. Readers can choose what "level" to read at, but nothing is actually censored.
The "moderation" we currently do isn't going to change. We're just thinking about the future.
You all seem to be very confused as to what moderation or a "moderation system" entails.
Think Slashdot. No one edits posts or deletes anything: posts simply get a "quality" ranking based on randomized democratic moderation. Readers can choose what "level" to read at, but nothing is actually censored.
The "moderation" we currently do isn't going to change. We're just thinking about the future.
Ahhh. That sounds interesting.
EDIT: I would think, though, with such a relatively small community, any sort of moderation system like that is going to heavily reflect the tastes of individual moderators. I would say that Slashdot works as well as it does because of its sheer size; with so many differing opinions on things, you can get a system that is roughly fair. I didn't read Slashdot back when the moderation system was started, so I'm not sure how it worked when it was smaller; anyone else know?
Of course, you can always just hand-pick your mods until we get a larger community. Make it a semi-random sort of democratic system, to ensure that it'll be as fair as possible.
The problem is that if they don't tell us what the system is if it's something they have to code themselves, there's a good chance that we'll never see it.
Comments
He did not get hosed. On the contrary. If I recall correctly his post in question ended with the ellipsis equivalent of "!!!!!!!!!!!!!" (with an optional 1 in there). There is no need for that much nonsense. My main goal with linking to the Wikipedia article was to quickly point out that there is no need for stupid overuse of punctuation and to inform people of the existence of the ellipsis, since I find it to be a very fancy punctuation mark (just like the interrobang is fancy, sadly that's rarely used). Hell, I did not even note the use of multiple exclamation marks, which have no real use either. This partly because 2 or 3 exclamation marks have become somewhat accepted, still, more than that is stupid nonsense and indicates nothing but someone just holding down the specific key for no good reason. I feel perfectly justified in thinking that he would have much to say other than this forum's equivalent of "OMFG LOL!!!!11!".
If he's that easily offended, and resorts to name calling and exaggerating his 'loss', I would not want to be in any discussion with him, because it appears that he is not capable of normal discussion. At least, not from the little I've seen of him. And really, as Rym said, if we wish to have correct spelling and the proper use of grammar even remotely enforced on this forum we need to be blunt and harsh, no exceptions. A good hard slap at first, and then correctional pokes. Really, if we don't, then we get another case like Morio-kun before we started hitting him with a hot branding iron. Now he posts better, which is great.
He may find it rude, I find it to be bluntly honest with a cruel joke for those who catch it. Which is me and I don't think anyone else, since it's a personal joke. As for 'stroke their own egos', what? I have requested explanations for grammatical corrections done to posts I made, I claim to be bad in English since I'm not a language buff and it's my second language. Perhaps I am so harsh and cruel because English is my second language. I want people to understand me, so I do my best to write an as well as I can post, one that is hopefully coherent, explains my point and is readable because of the use of proper spelling, a spell checker and the English grammar knowledge that I posses. If I demand this of myself, I will also demand if from everyone else because there is very, very little that aggravates me more than being misunderstood.
Is this clear?
Eventually there are people like us, who want to see the world for how it really is. We have realized life isn't terrifying without a deity or an afterlife and we (at least I have) taken a lot from that and grown as an individual, knowing that this is all I will ever get, it makes each moment precious. But people will still always have that world-view.
Einstein hated quantum mechanics for the longest time, refusing to accept that the nature atoms were unimaginable for us, impossible to visualize. Eventually he had to accept it, after helping to develop it so much by proving it wrong. Some people rely on their world view for everything... we still have people who believe the earth is flat.
Seriously now, how dare you even hint at a comparison between me and Steve.
Yes, we expect people to put effort into writing properly and reading the posts before theirs so that they can contribute value. Yes, some people are going to overreact when they are criticized. I personally generally choose to ignore that kind of overreaction, rather than find a way to punish it. When it gets no reaction, it usually goes away.
*edit: I wish to specify that I am not condoning acting like an asshole about grammar. I only do that with my close friends.
For the record, not ALL people on Gaia post that way. There are literate areas. Implying that someone posts on Gaia shouldn't be an insult in itself. It started out as a forum RP community, and it still has a large literate RP base. It's just that now you have to FIND them among the chaff that has gathered.
Is this going to be a G-rated board from now on?
Think Slashdot. No one edits posts or deletes anything: posts simply get a "quality" ranking based on randomized democratic moderation. Readers can choose what "level" to read at, but nothing is actually censored.
The "moderation" we currently do isn't going to change. We're just thinking about the future.
EDIT: I would think, though, with such a relatively small community, any sort of moderation system like that is going to heavily reflect the tastes of individual moderators. I would say that Slashdot works as well as it does because of its sheer size; with so many differing opinions on things, you can get a system that is roughly fair. I didn't read Slashdot back when the moderation system was started, so I'm not sure how it worked when it was smaller; anyone else know?
Of course, you can always just hand-pick your mods until we get a larger community. Make it a semi-random sort of democratic system, to ensure that it'll be as fair as possible.