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GeekNights 090203 - Gravity Bone

AprecheApreche
edited February 2009 in GeekNights
Tonight on GeekNights we review the indie hit, Gravity Bone. In the news, DRM ruins Gears of War for PC and Dawn of War 2 Beta is out.

Scott's Thing - Mario Explains Relationships
Rym's Thing - Nintendo Power Commercial
Rym's Thing - Every Nintendo Power Cover
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Comments

  • VinceAVinceA
    When you were talking about Richie Valens I realized that if any of the 'punk kids' know La Bamba they probably think it was a Los Lobos original.
  • snookernetsnookernet
    Scott, have you played Relic's other RTS, Company of Heroes? I haven't tried the Dawn of War II beta, but it sounds very similar. In Company of Heroes you have three resources: manpower, munitions, and fuel. You capture the resource points and you get them for as long as you control them. It also has a Victory Point Control multiplayer mode. There are more buildings to build, but it is still pretty simplified.
  • Luke BurrageLuke Burrage
    You mentioned in the show "maybe we should do a full show on this topic..."

    I can't remember what that topic was, but I remember thinking you've done a show on it already, or talked about it at length before. Sorry I'm not much help here.
  • RymRym
    You mentioned in the show "maybe we should do a full show on this topic..."
    What kind of RTS we would like to play. ;^)
  • Luke BurrageLuke Burrage
    Yeah, that's it. And if you haven't talked about this before, I think I can sum it up now:

    "Like the marine commander in Natural Selection going against another marine commander in Natural Selection." Sound about right?
  • AprecheApreche

    "Like the marine commander in Natural Selection going against another marine commander in Natural Selection." Sound about right?
    Not really. Commanding in Natural Selection is actually a pretty standard RTS experience. The only thing that makes it awesome is that you are commanding human players.
  • omegafinalomegafinal
    I got Gears of War for the PC, and I use a No-DVD .exe file (since I hate having to put the disk into the drive. Yeah, go Steam). Game still doesn't start unless I "turn back time", so I would doubt it was a DRM issue, if not partially.
  • kezealikezeali
    On the topic of graphics in game guides, I would recommend wikicheats.com over gamefaqs.com and the like for graphical quality if not depth of the actual guides. There are a few other wiki-style guide sites (giantbomb, 1up superguides) but wikicheats is the biggest I know of.
  • OmnutiaOmnutia
    Still no-one has made a translation for Tetsudou Musume :'( .
  • WalkerWalker
    I think the reason the Gravity Bone chase is so good is because it combines several things that many video game chase scenes have tried, but never properly executed. It does wait for you to catch up, but it does it cleverly in that it either makes sense, or you never actually see the character stop and wait or slow down for you. It could be broken by the player waiting around, but that's almost eliminated by timing-based obstacles (the train), and a clear motivation and sense of urgency for the chase (bitch shot you). What other games haven't done is make the chase so well tuned, with every event and animation in the game working just right to manipulate the player in a certain way, while giving him just enough wiggle room that he doesn't notice.
    It think it would be a little tougher in a game like Half-Life 2, because immersion is much more difficult to achieve. In Gravity Bone you don't question for a second that your quarry can run twice as fast as you. At this point you don't even care if they seem to be floating over the floor as they walk, waggling their legs around in a strange mockery of human movement. On the other hand, if Dr. Breen started rocketing down hallways at the speed of light it would certainly give you pause. As a result it makes it much more difficult for a character to wait for you without breaking the immersion.

    Very interesting stuff. I love level design.
  • AndrewAndrew

    "Like the marine commander in Natural Selection going against another marine commander in Natural Selection." Sound about right?
    Not really. Commanding in Natural Selection is actually a pretty standard RTS experience. The only thing that makes it awesome is that you are commanding human players.
  • DkongDkong
    On the topic of graphics in game guides, I would recommendwikicheats.comover gamefaqs.com and the like for graphical quality if not depth of the actual guides. There are a few other wiki-style guide sites (giantbomb, 1up superguides) but wikicheats is the biggest I know of.
    MyCheats is pretty good, too.
  • lackofcheeselackofcheese
    edited February 2009
    I'm enjoying the Dawn of War 2 beta so far, though I do have some gameplay complaints (i.e. Windows Live aside) that are completely different from Scott's.
    I wouldn't mind some less random people to play with, though my RTS skills are well above average (not on the level of a dedicated Internet RTS gamer, however).

    One good thing about RTS is that ping isn't as much of an issue as with other games, but timezones are still problematic; sadly, I have a job over uni holidays at the moment, so I can't set my sleep schedule at will like I usually do (mmn, the sun is rising, it's bedtime).
    Post edited by lackofcheese on
  • WalkerWalker

    "Like the marine commander in Natural Selection going against another marine commander in Natural Selection." Sound about right?
    Not really. Commanding in Natural Selection is actually a pretty standard RTS experience. The only thing that makes it awesome is that you are commanding human players.

    God damn it, I need to get that game working on my computer. Fuckin' Vista doesn't seem to play well with it, unfortunately.
  • SuxoRSuxoR
    Very nice episode and wow Gravity Bone is a great game! very nice recommendation wish it had more chapters

    From reading what everyone is posting I have a hugely different opinion. The RTS games I play (Warcraft, Starcraft) require knowledge of the tech trees and know counters and timing, and micromanagement is a huge part that separates the big boys from the small in battles. btw lackofcheese in league play ping is sooooo important! hard to micro and macro in battles while you have a bad ping
  • RymRym
    The RTS games I play (Warcraft, Starcraft) require knowledge of the tech trees and know counters and timing, and micromanagement is a huge part that separates the big boys from the small in battles.
    Most of the micromanaging in those games is pseudo-scripted, in that there are very specific paths to victory which consist of one significant decision followed by a large number of non-decision dexterity actions. Most of the interesting units, buildings, and the like are useless, and the games boil down to a small number of near-optimal strategies amidst a sea of absolutely ineffective ones.
  • OmnutiaOmnutia
    edited February 2009
    I'd like everyone's thoughts on this idea:
    One thing strategy games could do to increase strategy would be giving a significant advantage to the unit that attacks first, also crippling the other unit's ability to return fire or defend (i.e. the dead don't shoot back). The result would be, instead of two hoards of unit's duking it out, you get players trying to sneak attack and ambush each other with weaker units able to take down much larger units by finishing the larger unit off before it can retaliate.

    To add to this: If units are moving or attacking they loose their ability to defend or fight back as effectively, this makes surprise counter attacks the most effective means of pushing back an attacking enemy. If they stay in the same place and hold up they are much more able to defend but are buggered if the enemy uses artillery.
    Post edited by Omnutia on
  • ChurbaChurba
    edited February 2009
    Most of the micromanaging in those games is pseudo-scripted, in that there are very specific paths to victory which consist of one significant decision followed by a large number of non-decision dexterity actions. Most of the interesting units, buildings, and the like are useless, and the games boil down to a small number of near-optimal strategies amidst a sea of absolutely ineffective ones.
    I wouldn't even go that far. My housemate is a near-optimal player of AOE:AOK, and it seems that everyone even vaguely at his level(Above or below) That I've seen him play against have one strategy - Build lots of farms, build lots of cavalry, and rush constantly.

    Edit - Well, He says it's more complex than that, but I'm not sure I can take his word for it, considering two things -1) Despite appearances, he thinks only n00bs rush, he's giving a "constant, massed attack" and 2)Another game he describes as more complex than it appears is SSBB, but only when played his way, which is, you guessed it, No items, Fox/Pitt only, Final Destination.
    Post edited by Churba on
  • AprecheApreche
    I wouldn't even go that far. My housemate is a near-optimal player of AOE:AOK, and it seems that everyone even vaguely at his level(Above or below) That I've seen him play against have one strategy - Build lots of farms, build lots of cavalry, and rush constantly.
    What's strong against cavalry? I've never played the game, but I must assume there is some sort of rock/paper/scissors mechanic going on, at the least.
  • ChurbaChurba
    I wouldn't even go that far. My housemate is a near-optimal player of AOE:AOK, and it seems that everyone even vaguely at his level(Above or below) That I've seen him play against have one strategy - Build lots of farms, build lots of cavalry, and rush constantly.
    What's strong against cavalry? I've never played the game, but I must assume there is some sort of rock/paper/scissors mechanic going on, at the least.
    There propably is something, but it's just unused. I've seen him use a grand total of three units, ever - Peons, Cavalry, and very rarely, seige engines, for when he wants to take down the opponent's castle quickly - Though, he complains about this, because apparently, it's good manners to concede when you're "beaten" instead of fighting to the last man.
  • OmnutiaOmnutia
    edited February 2009
    What's strong against cavalry?
    Pikemans!
    Post edited by Omnutia on
  • AprecheApreche
    Though, he complains about this, because apparently, it's good manners to concede when you're "beaten" instead of fighting to the last man.
    That tells me that it's a shitty game that reaches Nash equilibrium far before the victory condition is met. One good thing I can say about the Dawn of War 2 beta that I played is that it does not have that problem. You can almost always come back and win it. If you can't come back and win it, the game will end very very soon, so there is no reason to quit early.
  • ChurbaChurba
    edited February 2009
    What's strong against cavalry?
    Pikemans!
    Pikmin? Curious Mental image.
    Post edited by Churba on
  • OmnutiaOmnutia
    What's strong against cavalry?
    Pikemans!
    Pikmin?
    Pike men, but pikmin are good too.
  • RobertRobert
    I played Gravity Bone the minute that I received this podcast. I have to say, the one thing I got out of this was that during that chase, I was wondering "wait, doesn't she still have that gun? Don't I have any weapons I could get?"

    Sure enough, BLAM!

    And then I thought, "Oh Christ." The life-flashing-before-my-eyes sequence made up for it, though.
  • gomidoggomidog
    Scott's Thing -Mario Explains Relationships
    Oh mans, that was so lame.
    You know what? I don't understand all these dork guys on the internet who complain about girls/relationships. If you hate it all that much, don't bother?
    It's like...if these men hate marriage, why do they do it?
  • AprecheApreche
    It's like...if these men hate marriage, why do they do it?
    That's why it is funny. It is because I am laughing at those people.
  • OmnutiaOmnutia
    edited February 2009
    Do you mean "Don't knock it until you've tried it"?
    Post edited by Omnutia on
  • TaselTasel
    edited February 2009
    Scott, I think I remember you asking during the convo for a cute little puzzle game to keep you occupied (I may be mixing my podcasts thought). May I suggest Aurora Feint for the iPhone (iTunes link). They've come out with a couple of versions (more games, more multiplayer, etc) but Aurora Feint:The Beginnings is free on the iPhone and should keep you busy for quite some time. it mixes simple Bejewl mentality with a puzzle and challenge parts to gain new abilities. Worst case scenario you waste a hour playing with it on the train. Best case scenario you waste several weeks with it.

    EDIT: And better yet, should you buy any of the future versions, all your hard work gets transfered to those because it allows for you "character" to download and upload information to their servers. That then translates into each of the other paid versions of Aurora Feint II.
    Post edited by Tasel on
  • ChurbaChurba
    It's like...if these men hate marriage, why do they do it?
    I don't hate marriage - though, admittedly, while this has been discussed with my last long-term girlfriend, we didn't think we'd get married for anything more than convenient citizenships, because all it would do would be give us a legal status a half a step on from what we already have, considering that in the eyes of both UK and Australian Law, we were De-facto Spouses anyway.
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