Do nice guys really finish last?

thehollow89

I've been having some bad luck with girls. It seems like every time they find out I'm a nice guy, it instinctively makes them wanna play games with me. Do nice guys really finish last? I'm starting to think it's a waste of time looking right now...

kiwi_bird

I've been having some bad luck with girls. It seems like every time they find out I'm a nice guy, it instinctively makes them wanna play games with me. Do nice guys really finish last? I'm starting to think it's a waste of time looking right now...

I had to look for a long time.

thehollow89

I had to look for a long time.

So did I, and it turned out they were a compulsive liar... Always seems like it's "Oh shit he's nice, let's fuck with him. I'll show him for caring about what I have to say!"

Andrew

Be assertive and know what you want. "Nice" guys are often come across as shy and lacking in confidence.

thehollow89

Be assertive and know what you want. "Nice" guys are often come across as shy and lacking in confidence.

and when that fails?

kiwi_bird

So did I, and it turned out they were a compulsive liar...

I met a girl during an English exam and went out with her, as friends mind you, for about a year. Over that span of time I let her know that I was interested in her. Nothing happened until I just looked her straight in the eye, 2 inches apart, and told her what I thought.

Jason

and when that fails?

If you're asking this question, then you've already failed.

Sail

What constitutes a "nice guy"?

thehollow89

I met a girl during an English exam and went out with her, as friends mind you, for about a year. Over that span of time I let her know that I was interested in her. Nothing happened until I just looked her straight in the eye, 2 inches apart, and told her what I thought.

I was straight up with my ex and was honest. She cheated one month later and refused to admit it. I stayed with her because I had no proof. One year later she cheats again. This time it was obvious and I disproved her lies. She denied lying 5 seconds after I proved she was lying. At one point I said "So everyone is a liar, except you?" her response of course was yes. I can't believe I dated her. It amazes me that someone can bring themselves to stare deep into someone's eyes (someone who is forgiving might I add) and lie flat out. People amaze me sometimes.

thehollow89

What constitutes a "nice guy"?

Someone who actually cares what other's have to say and would be a gentleman in a relationship. Nothing over the top, just a lot different than the guys who only care about getting laid..

Andrew

I was straight up with my ex and was honest. She cheated one month later and refused to admit it. I stayed with her because I had no proof. One year later she cheats again. This time it was obvious and I disproved her lies. She denied lying 5 seconds after I proved she was lying. At one point I said "So everyone is a liar, except you?" her response of course was yes. I can't believe I dated her. It amazes me that someone can bring themselves to stare deep into someone's eyes (someone who is forgiving might I add) and lie flat out. People amaze me sometimes.

You're doing it wrong.

thehollow89

You're doing it wrong.

I'm listening.

Andrew

You shouldn't be with anyone if you even have the inkling of doubt about their fidelity or don't have 100% trust in them. If they aren't mad about you, then why should you even waste your time with them? You shouldn't feel obligated to stay with anyone, just walk away from it and save yourself the bullshit. Furthermore, it sounds like this girl wasn't really the greatest anyways.

thehollow89

You shouldn't be with anyone if you even have the inkling of doubt about their fidelity or don't have 100% trust in them. If they aren't mad about you, then why should you even waste your time with them? You shouldn't feel obligated to stay with anyone, just walk away from it and save yourself the bullshit. Furthermore, it sounds like this girl wasn't really the greatest anyways.

You're right. I was just really desperate. Now I don't care nearly as much.

Funfetus

I've been having some bad luck with girls. It seems like every time they find out I'm a nice guy, it instinctively makes them wanna play games with me. Do nice guys really finish last? I'm starting to think it's a waste of time looking right now...

Someone who actually cares what other's have to say and would be a gentleman in a relationship. Nothing over the top, just a lot different than the guys who only care about getting laid..

Something's not adding up about these two quotes. Maybe the problem is you're only dating the girls who only care about playing games with doormat guys?

My stock advice about these situations (and something a lot of people around this forum have given in threads similar to this one as well) is not to look. Just meet people, among them girls, make friends, and once you've got a decent casual friendship going with a girl that you think you might like more with, take it from there. If you can't be friends, it isn't going to be worth your time anyway.

thehollow89

Something's not adding up about these two quotes. Maybe the problem is you're only dating the girls who only care about playing games with doormat guys?

By play games with me, I meant play with my emotions and what not.

Rym

In all my experience, the answer is a decided "no."

Dkong

My experience has been "yes" (I got cheated on a year ago) up till a few weeks ago. I met a girl and we went out a few times as friends, and we were hitting it off great. I just recently asked her out and she said yes. She very much appreciates that we're both in this relationship because we like being around each other and get along great, not because of sex.

Be assertive and know what you want. "Nice" guys are often come across as shy and lacking in confidence.

This is a pretty good point. With said girl, I haven't really been that assertive. But for some reason I've always been a slightly shy guy and lacking in confidence [due to horrible luck with girls], but I kind of just said "fuck it" and have been fairly outgoing and definitely confident.

Funfetus

My experience has been "yes" (I got cheated on a year ago)

What makes you think that she cheated on you because you're a nice guy?

Sail

Yeah, I haven't read one problem in this thread that had anything to do with being a "nice guy". Whatever that means.

MrRoboto

Seems like you are looking for a relationship for the wrong reasons, so yes, that will happen, you are not that nice of a guy in the end, you have to sit down and realize that it looks like you want a relationship either just because or to give yourself some self worth. Most of the time, the happy, nice relationships are unplanned, because people don't act all needy and shit when they are not looking for a relationship. The other problem is, when you are needy, you read too much in between the lines and fantasize a complete relationship out of a courteous "Thank you" or a smile.

Now, if you are just looking for a physical thing, that's not bad either, just be honest to yourself.

Norvu

Yeah, I haven't read one problem in this thread that had anything to do with being a "nice guy". Whatever that means.

Exactly. You can be a nice guy and still get the girl, it's not hard. Guys and girls are incredibly similar (not nearly as different as people assume). If you have confidence and can get along with someone easily then there is going to be chemistry. Like MrRoboto said above, a lot of people who are similar to us (nerds) pour their emotions into a single person and consequently get their hearts broken, when things should just develop more naturally. Don't invest too much of yourself into someone unless they deserve it, otherwise your just asking for it.

I've also seen friends screw things up royally and rushing things along because they're terrified of the mythical 'friend zone'.

Edit: Although, I just recently had my heart broken :P Fell for this girl quite hard and we were getting along really well, but she's going out with some other guy now. I got strung along pretty bad, but these things happen. I did hesitate asking her out and someone got their first, which is fine, my own fault really. I know the guy, and he's another 'nice guy' so it doesn't really confirm the notion of nice guys finishing last.

Loganator456

In all my experience, the answer is a decided "no."

I'd like you to elaborate on this. If not, maybe a relationships episode? ^_^

Dkong

My experience has been "yes" (I got cheated on a year ago)

What makes you think that she cheated on you because you're a nice guy?

Absolutely nothing. She cheated on me because she was a complete slut and a bitch that I shouldn't have had any business with in the first place.
Why did I go out with her? I was feeling needy and I wanted a relationship "just because". It was really dumb of me.

Funfetus

Absolutely nothing. She cheated on me because she was a complete slut and a bitch that I shouldn't have had any business with in the first place.

That's what I was getting at. The way you phrased your post sounded like you were answering the question "Do nice guys finish last?" with a "yes (I got cheated on a year ago)". But it's good to know that you see that it's not a cause-and-effect relationship. That doesn't mean there's no connection. It's true that a lot of shitty people can sniff out people they can take advantage of. That's where the difference between being "nice" and being a doormat comes in. That's also why you don't start a serious relationship with someone that you don't kinda know and have some kind of real connection with.

Why did I go out with her? I was feeling needy and I wanted a relationship "just because". It was really dumb of me

Almost everyone has made that mistake at least once or twice. Some people live their whole lives that way. It's hard to be lonely. Sometimes you just need to learn the hard way that you're not doing yourself any favors by rushing into anything. However...

Now, if you are just looking for a physical thing, that's not bad either, just be honest to yourself.

Yep. And be honest with the person whose physical thing you're looking for.

I've also seen friends screw things up royally and rushing things along because they're terrified of the mythical 'friend zone'.

I strongly suspect that the "friend zone" only exists for people who aren't candidates for the "boyfriend zone" to begin with.

Kate Monster

I've also seen friends screw things up royally and rushing things along because they're terrified of the mythical 'friend zone'.

I strongly suspect that the "friend zone" only exists for people who aren't candidates for the "boyfriend zone" to begin with.

I haven seen girls, even nice girls, string their male friends along (sometimes without realizing they are) because they enjoy the attention and flirtation. It really, really bothers me (because both the guys and the girls are being idiots). If you have a female friend you have feelings for and she is aware of the feelings, but doesn't return them/act on them - there is nothing necessarily wrong with you or with her. Be her friend and look for love elsewhere. If being her friend is too painful, then let her know that and move on.

Also, everyone I have ever dated (both male and female) started out a friend. The "friend zone" may be just that - friendship. Where friendship can go if both people are interested, who knows?

Funfetus

I haven seen girls, even nice girls, string their male friends along (sometimes without realizing they are) because they enjoy the attention and flirtation. It really, really bothers me (because both the guys and the girls are being idiots). If you have a female friend you have feelings for and she is aware of the feelings, but doesn't return them/act on them - there is nothing necessarily wrong with you or with her. Be her friend and look for love elsewhere. If being her friend is too painful, then let her know that and move on.

QFT

Also, everyone I have ever dated (both male and female) started out a friend.

Same here, except in my case it would be "everyone I've ever dated that lasted more than a few awkward weeks".

Vhdblood

I've also seen friends screw things up royally and rushing things along because they're terrified of the mythical 'friend zone'.

I strongly suspect that the "friend zone" only exists for people who aren't candidates for the "boyfriend zone" to begin with.

I have to disagree here, because one day I just told a friend of mine how I felt after a long time being friends, and she was really happy, but she always thought she wasn't good enough for me, and she just kept telling herself that the things I did and the way I acted didn't mean what she wanted them to mean. I felt really bad because I felt that I wasn't being forward enough, but I didn't want it to feel awkward if I was wrong.

Anyway, I think this is where the issue comes in with the true "nice guy" problem. She flat out told me that she thought she wasn't good enough for me, because I was such a nice, caring, loving guy, etc. I've been told this by three totally separate girls. That's just my guess though.

Funfetus

I have to disagree here, because one day I just told a friend of mine how I felt after a long time being friends, and she was really happy, but she always thought she wasn't good enough for me, and she just kept telling herself that the things I did and the way I acted didn't mean what she wanted them to mean. I felt really bad because I felt that I wasn't being forward enough, but I didn't want it to feel awkward if I was wrong.

Anyway, I think this is where the issue comes in with the true "nice guy" problem. She flat out told me that she thought she wasn't good enough for me, because I was such a nice, caring, loving guy, etc. I've been told this by three totally separate girls. That's just my guess though.

Did you start dating any of these girls afterward? Sometimes "I'm not good enough for you" (or "I don't want to ruin our friendship" or whatever) is code for "I'm not into you". Sometimes not, though. I'd assume.

I don't think that's the "friend zone", though. The friend zone is "now we're friends, and we aren't ever going to be anything else."

Jay

In my experience looking at my entire social group over the course of my life the answer is no (judging by how successful men are and the type of men the women tend to go after), but being nice doesn’t particularly help your odds out either as far as I’ve seen. It pretty much comes down to physical attractiveness, confidence, and common interest, in that order. Someone who looks similar to Clark Kent in Smallville will be wildly successful independent of his other character traits. If he’s a nice guy he’ll be the guy all the girls are envious over and one girl is very lucky to have. If he isn’t he will be very good and chaining girls one after another, using and abusing them, with repeat customers if he plays his cards right. Someone who is just “nice” but lacks the more important first two items will not have these options available to him. He can find a good long lasting relationship, or good one night stands, but not as easily. The world is full of millions of nice people you can have happy, successful, long relationships with. The problem is all of them may not let you get that first date.

That being said if a nice guy does find a nice girl it can turn into a beautiful thing. Being a nice guy does d help in keeping a relationship going once you get it started. So being nice does have its benefits. I also suspect the attribute of being nice starts to weigh more heavily into the equation the older you get. I guess time will tell.

Cremlian

The ladder theory. Thread over.

Anyhow, now that I made my joke, lets be serious. The problem that a lot of nice guys (or nice girls) have is that they under sell themselves. "Why would she like me, I'm not nearly as good looking or make as much money as so and so." Look, if you ever think this, you have already lost. The key is to take the chance, if you do not act, do no go for broke you have lost. Several relationships I've been in over the years occurred because the girl was starting to be courted by someone else and I made my move because I figured if I didn't move then, I wouldn't get the chance. You would be surprised how many times that actually got me a date. (You’d also be surprised how often other guys pulled this on me when I finally got the nerve to ask someone out and they moved in on my prey ^_^) The key is you have to risk a sudden change in relationship for good or bad, if you put it out there you will regret it more then you will be hurt by the turn down. Also, remember all those secret crushes you have on the people around you, remember this, there are people around you who have the same hidden feelings. If sucks to find out years later that someone you liked always had a flame for you (and you were interested in them) but now you have both moved on. (I had a girl the day before she got married tell me that she always thought we would be together, but she didn't want to be in her last relationship yet :-p). Also, note, that just because your friends with someone does not mean they are not interested in you. My current and wonderful girlfriend was a friend of mine for 5 years before we got together. We had both liked each other the whole time but the timing and distance was never right, until a few years ago. Damn, I'm rambling, but I have a lot of advice on this subject, and unless you're a player, once you learn these secrets you will not have trouble finding a mate ever again. (so the advice does not really help me out anymore ^_^)

Some quick other advice, LISTEN!, don't get caught up in yourself, watch for cues in the other person. Are they talking to you when there are plenty of other people around, are they making glances over at you but not coming over to see you. GO TO THEM. Ask them questions about themselves; tell quick funny stories that do not involve your D&D character named THAG. (I WILL REPEAT THIS, DO NOT TELL ANY STORIES ABOUT SPECIFIC D&D EXPERIENCES PERIOD, to a girl or a guy or anyone, unless they played with you, they don't care, so if you have mention D&D keep it short and to a point). I was once at a party, 7 years ago (if you read above you'll notice some math here), I was doing my normal chit chat with as many people as possible, and I noticed a girl in the corner of the room, looking nervous and shy. So then, I walked up and started talking to her, and well... that is who I am with today (5 years of friendship later).

Find something your good at and gain self-confidence, become a leader in a organization, step out of the crowd of people and be noticed. The more exposure you have the more people will notice you and the higher chance you will encounter someone who also likes you. Remember, if you ask out 100 people and 99 say no, you still have a date. God, I could talk for hours. Maybe I should sub for Scott sometime and do a show on relationships (because he hasn't had one in a while :-p).