So we disregard lethal force as a last resort? What about trying to corner and capture the fishing trawlers they use to launch these attacks from?
Define last resort. If they are taking hostages and threatening lives, then lethal force needs to be applied BEFORE that point. As for capturing the ships, that is a great idea as long as it doesn't break any laws.
I suppose I took that as a kill them as they come mentality. As for an alternative to trying to make piracy undesirable through bloodshed, trying to knock out the problem at the infrastructure level without aiming to kill would be preferable to just armoring up.
As for an alternative to trying to make piracy undesirable through bloodshed, trying to knock out the problem at the infrastructure level without aiming to kill would be preferable to just armoring up.
As for an alternative to trying to make piracy undesirable through bloodshed, trying to knock out the problem at the infrastructure level without aiming to kill would be preferable to just armoring up.
Crews will need to be more vigilant. All ships should have a weapons locker too. Access points for boarding should be monitored. Buy some damn cameras and develop some proximity alarms.
If someone approaches a ship without signalling or hailing, they should be treated as hostile. The death of the french person, will surely now have safer measures thought out and applied. As for smaller yachts and other vessels, they should also have a means to defend themselves at hand. Harsh language and excuses won't save your life out there.
Best offense is a good defense. Act pro-actively and catch them, before they get you.
First of all, we are talking about a country without a government, lacks any sort stability, and is currently in a Civil War. Warlords run a vast majority of the country and there are strong ties between Somalia and groups such as Al Qaeda via the Islamic Courts Union. What were you planning on doing? There is NO infrastructure to fix. What you are suggesting is rebuilding an entire country which is currently in more political unrest than Iraq. Not to mention, that these problems are not strictly isolated to the country, but much of the African continent. Attempts by the UN to bring stability to the region completely failed during the early '90s. Additionally, let's not forget the political stigma that surrounds the country due to the infamous Battle of Mogadishu in 1993.
Trying the non violent approach is noble, but its thinking like this that plays into their hands. These people will kill you. We are used to reasoning with people and pride ourselves on it, however, not everyone is reasonble, therefore we must be prepared for that and the correct action beyond it. Problem is, some have become weak and fear conflict on the most, day to day, basic level.
These people are poor and desperate, with nothing to loose. Learn from your mistakes and improve.
It should be interesting to see if shipping is temporarily halted in the region or not.
re. arming ships, I've heard claims that "International Maritime Law" prohibits arming crew on commercial freighters. I wasn't able to verify that though (lot of people say it, but they don't quote where in the law it is). On the other hand, I've seen several reports saying that the crew aren't soldiers, and the concern is that they may do more harm on the ships than the pirates (think automatic weapons on an oil tanker for example). I have a feeling that this will change at some point. The shipping lines can't incur the losses they have forever.
In re. stopping the pirates without bloodshed. I don't see that happening. You have a situation where the pirates get overwhelmingly rewarded for being pirates. One article I saw indicated $150,000 per pirate for a successful ransom. This is in a country where the GDP is $600/person. What are you going to do prevent them from being pirates? In the past, plenty of talking was done and tributes paid to pirates to protect shipping, but that was only partially successful. It always ended up in bloodshed.
I refer you to the Barbary Corsairs/Pirates for example. They're why the USA has a navy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_Pirates The final solution to the problem ended up being conquest of their country, causing the deaths of a third of their population. Do you think many countries today have the wherewhithal or desire to invade and conquer Somalia?
Personally, I don't expect much out of the Obama administration on this. After the Bush years, there's a pretty high bar against using our forces for new excursions (it's part of why he was elected after Bush after all). I think that most countries are just hoping that the piracy goes away and don't want to have to pay for the military to deal with it (especially if their shipping isn't affected) or have to deal with the legalities (a lot of countries don't have legal jurisdiction if their ships aren't attacked). The UN's passed some resolutions to help resolve that, but it hasn't been tested.
It isn't the "good old days" where navy captains could hang pirates caught in the act. They may still be legally covered these days, but public outcry would probably end their careers.
How do you shoot a pirate from another ship with any degree of accuracy? It sounds like it was a no-brainer to make the decision to shoot. The pirates were putting an AK-47 to the captain's back. Nonetheless, I'm really impressed that the captain made it out alive. Two ships bobbing on waves does not make for accurate shooting.
Two ships bobbing on waves does not make for accurate shooting.
Perhaps not, but a talented sniper could make up for the movement and still take any one pirate out with one shot. I know for a fact that snipers in the US are extremely well trained. If one of those snipers couldn't make a shot like that I'd be somewhat surprised. They might take a while to do the math required to take shot a shot, but the end result would still be dead pirate.
Well, I stand corrected. The hostage was rescued and the pirates terminated. Kudos to the Obama and the administration that allowed it and the Seals that did the deed. in re. talented snipers. The Seals are hardcore, I don't see anyone with a sniper classification in the Seals being anything but talented.
We invaded a country that we SUSPECTED might have had weapons that were threatening us when they had made no overt threats to out people and obliterated the shit out of them. Not that I supported that action, but someone please tell me WHY the pirates think that overtly threatening Americans is going to make things better for them? Do that not understand that this is the perfect excuse for us to blow the shit out of them? Seriously?
Paraphrase: Oh yeah, the ship got away...but we were TRYING to blow it up and kill everyone on it. Too bad we failed. Now we're gonna advertise the fact that we want to hurt you and have inferior military skills.
Forget shipping them food...somebody get these people some logic! (I mean that seriously...we need to get them good education a lot more urgently than food.)
Glad it ended well for the Captain. However, the bigger problem is any pirate efforts after this major one. A strong military presence in the area, would help sort these fool out them.
I know the U.S won't want go back threre in a hurry after Mogadisha, which leaves the only other option, mobilize the U.N and send them in. They are probably over stretched anyways.
They need to establish a shipping lane similar to a "no fly zone." If any ship other than an approved commercial vessel goes into the designated lane, the ship gets destroyed. Period.
If any ship other than an approved commercial vessel goes into the designated lane, the ship gets destroyed. Period.
You need to at least give a few warnings before you blow them up. What if someone sails in by accident, or is blown in by weather?
Also, consider this bit of information. Apparently Europeans, possibly the mafia, are dumping nasty shit in those waters, and are also fishing them because there is no Somalian government to stop them. Ideally, those waters could be cleaned up and Somali people would be able to fish them safely again.
Your "no fly zone" idea would help keep out the illegal dumping and fishing by the Europeans, but it would also prevent the Somalian people from fishing, and starve them even further.
Why not just allow the Somali government to sell "Pirates Go Away" flags that companies can hang on their ships? The money collected can then be used by the Somali government to fund a Coast Guard.
It's not a protection racket if a government does it!
Your "no fly zone" idea would help keep out the illegal dumping and fishing by the Europeans, but it would also prevent the Somalian people from fishing, and starve them even further.
Fair enough. Here is the new rule. Anyone can come into the no-fly zone. The first time there is an incident of piracy, the zone gets closed to all non-approved ships. Anything that enters that is not approved gets intercepted. It does not re-open until the pirates are handed over by the Somali authorities for prosecution.
As for ships that may wander in because of poor navigation, etc... they get boarded and searched. If the shoot, they get destroyed. The problem is that they can be used as a diversion. So I'm tempted to just blow them up. ;-)
Why not just allow the Somali government to sell "Pirates Go Away" flags that companies can hang on their ships? The money collected can then be used by the Somali government to fund a Coast Guard. It's not a protection racket if a government does it!
...handed over by the Somali authorities for prosecution.
There is no Somali government. That's the problem. It's all anarchy and warlords.
There is no Somali government. That's the problem. It's all anarchy and warlords.
This will give them some incentive to form one. If the average citizen starts to feel inconvenienced, the warlords won't last long. And keep in mind, the warlords can hand over the pirates.
Comments
As for capturing the ships, that is a great idea as long as it doesn't break any laws.
If someone approaches a ship without signalling or hailing, they should be treated as hostile. The death of the french person, will surely now have safer measures thought out and applied. As for smaller yachts and other vessels, they should also have a means to defend themselves at hand. Harsh language and excuses won't save your life out there.
Best offense is a good defense. Act pro-actively and catch them, before they get you.
These people are poor and desperate, with nothing to loose. Learn from your mistakes and improve.
It should be interesting to see if shipping is temporarily halted in the region or not.
In re. stopping the pirates without bloodshed. I don't see that happening. You have a situation where the pirates get overwhelmingly rewarded for being pirates. One article I saw indicated $150,000 per pirate for a successful ransom. This is in a country where the GDP is $600/person. What are you going to do prevent them from being pirates? In the past, plenty of talking was done and tributes paid to pirates to protect shipping, but that was only partially successful. It always ended up in bloodshed.
I refer you to the Barbary Corsairs/Pirates for example. They're why the USA has a navy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_Pirates The final solution to the problem ended up being conquest of their country, causing the deaths of a third of their population. Do you think many countries today have the wherewhithal or desire to invade and conquer Somalia?
It isn't the "good old days" where navy captains could hang pirates caught in the act. They may still be legally covered these days, but public outcry would probably end their careers.
We invaded a country that we SUSPECTED might have had weapons that were threatening us when they had made no overt threats to out people and obliterated the shit out of them. Not that I supported that action, but someone please tell me WHY the pirates think that overtly threatening Americans is going to make things better for them? Do that not understand that this is the perfect excuse for us to blow the shit out of them? Seriously?
Pirates say rocket attack on ship was revenge
Paraphrase: Oh yeah, the ship got away...but we were TRYING to blow it up and kill everyone on it. Too bad we failed. Now we're gonna advertise the fact that we want to hurt you and have inferior military skills.
Forget shipping them food...somebody get these people some logic! (I mean that seriously...we need to get them good education a lot more urgently than food.)
I know the U.S won't want go back threre in a hurry after Mogadisha, which leaves the only other option, mobilize the U.N and send them in. They are probably over stretched anyways.
Also, consider this bit of information. Apparently Europeans, possibly the mafia, are dumping nasty shit in those waters, and are also fishing them because there is no Somalian government to stop them. Ideally, those waters could be cleaned up and Somali people would be able to fish them safely again.
Your "no fly zone" idea would help keep out the illegal dumping and fishing by the Europeans, but it would also prevent the Somalian people from fishing, and starve them even further.
It's not a protection racket if a government does it!
As for ships that may wander in because of poor navigation, etc... they get boarded and searched. If the shoot, they get destroyed. The problem is that they can be used as a diversion. So I'm tempted to just blow them up. ;-)