GeekNights 090701 - How to Fix Anime Conventions

Apreche

Tonight on GeekNights we discuss various ways to fix the problems with anime conventions. In the news, there's a lot of stuff going down at Otakon 2009. It's just a few weeks away!

Scott's Thing - Cliff Hanger
Rym's Thing - Black Fly

Viga

With the sending badges and losing them. Maybe 'tough shit' isn't a good idea. Why not those people who lose their badge just pay a small fee to get a replacement. The con gets extra cash and they get badges. Although, if you're broke then that's tough shit.

Apreche

With the sending badges and losing them. Maybe 'tough shit' isn't a good idea. Why not those people who lose their badge just pay a small fee to get a replacement. The con gets extra cash and they get badges. Although, if you're broke then that's tough shit.

This won't work at all. Imagine you're a poor punk kid with three friends. You find out that replacement badges are cheap. You pretend to lose your badge three times. You and all your friends get badges for a serious discount.

Replacement badges have to be full price.

Andrew

With the sending badges and losing them. Maybe 'tough shit' isn't a good idea. Why not those people who lose their badge just pay a small fee to get a replacement. The con gets extra cash and they get badges. Although, if you're broke then that's tough shit.

This won't work at all. Imagine you're a poor punk kid with three friends. You find out that replacement badges are cheap. You pretend to lose your badge three times. You and all your friends get badges for a serious discount.

Replacement badges have to be full price.

Not if you are already in a database for having paid full price previously.

Eryn

Won't get to listen to the episode for a little while yet, but just wanted to pipe in now and say hooray for National Film Board cartoons. Those are almost always awesome.

Dr. Timo

Replacement badges have to be full price.

Not if you are already in a database for having paid full price previously.

How does that help? Same punk kid "loses'" his badge three times and only pays a small fee because he's in a database?

Your plan would also require unique badges (e.g. with names) and that these be checked against a photo ID. This is not going to sit well with the 99% of the con goers who don't lose their badges but now have to flash their ID every time they pop out for a bite.

Ametto

A hacker convention my fiance goes to, uses a barcode system. Once they beep in, they get their badge which is usually nice and made of engraved red plastic. A barcode system seems to be a great idea.

Apreche

Your plan would also require unique badges (e.g. with names)andthat these be checked against a photo ID. This is not going to sit well with the 99% of the con goers who don't lose their badges but now have to flash their ID every time they pop out for a bite.

Punk kids don't have photo IDs.

A hacker convention my fiance goes to, uses a barcode system. Once they beep in, they get their badge which is usually nice and made of engraved red plastic. A barcode system seems to be a great idea.

That costs a lot of money.

Rym

Punk kids don't have photo IDs.

Many of them furthermore don't bring their pre-registration information. Do you give a badge to someone who claims to be pre-registered, but who has no proof of identity whatsoever?

Apreche

Many of them furthermore don't bring their pre-registration information. Do you give a badge to someone who claims to be pre-registered, but who has no proof of identity whatsoever?

You don't give them a badge. You make them buy a new one.

Ametto

A hacker convention my fiance goes to, uses a barcode system. Once they beep in, they get their badge which is usually nice and made of engraved red plastic. A barcode system seems to be a great idea.

That costs a lot of money.

I don't think it's that expensive. A scanner cost under $100 and to set up a barcode system to send by email doesn't seem like much. Hell, Dan at our old anime club did it with the free cat scanner that came in the mail.

I just found one that cost $65.

Axel

Many of them furthermore don't bring their pre-registration information. Do you give a badge to someone who claims to be pre-registered, but who has no proof of identity whatsoever?

You don't give them a badge. You make them buy a new one.

This. Just make them buy a new badge at full price, rather than pre-registration price. Simple plan.

Apreche

I don't think it's that expensive. A scanner cost under $100 and to set up a barcode system to send by email doesn't seem like much. Hell, Dan at our old anime club did it with the free cat scanner that came in the mail.

I just found one that cost $65.

Yeah, Dan could do it because he was just one person with a lot of technical knowledge. He coded the system himself. He knew how to use it, and was able to fix any problems with it. He also had a long period of time to test the system without any pressure.

Anime conventions have shit for technical expertise. Just look at their shit web sites. We offer to help them, but they refuse. Any technical solution would not have a lot of time to be stress tested. It basically has to accellerate to full speed as soon as the convention starts, and not crash. That's pretty much impossible. Also, you have to train all these people in how to use it properly. It will be more trouble than it is worth.

At a hacker con, everyone is technologically smart, so there is no problem. At anime conventions, there are people there who don't even have computers. I've met them. Remember, when you are online you tend to be interacting only with the people in a community who are also technologically proficient. Most people at anime cons are technologically retarded. This is why when there is a tech conference, like SXSW, you see a bajillion Tweets, but you see barely any Otakon tweets by comparison, even though Otakon is larger.

Rym

I don't think it's that expensive.

The problem isn't the cost: it's the technical manpower (nonexistent for most cons) and the unreliable attendees.

The kids can't remember to bring their pre-reg emails as it is: they certainly won't remember to bring their barcode. If they can bring a barcode, then they can just as easily bring the email with the registration number printed on it. The problem is that they often bring neither, and don't have photo ID. Thus, if we mail them their badges, we can expect them to lose or forget said badges. The fundamental problem is that we can't trust them to bring anything with them to the convention.

Ametto

Ah I see what you mean.

That's probably why Dragoncon has the bring your post card or tough shit policy.

Apreche

That's probably why Dragoncon has the bring your post card or tough shit policy.

Yes, but Dragoncon also has an older demographic. It's not a million 14 year olds.

Ametto

Even if DragonCon is not a great example, it does show your idea can work.

I'm flabbergasted by con staff being so technically illiterate.

Andrew

I'm flabbergasted by con staff being so technically illiterate.

At Anime Boston, it was a huge problem because all the registration staff was hired by the convention center, not the con staff. The whole registration line was being handled by grandmas who had no idea how to type on a laptop and used their index fingers for data entry. A process that should take one or two minutes for each badge ended up taking seven or eight.

Apreche

At Anime Boston, it was a huge problem because all the registration staff was hired by the convention center, not the con staff. The whole registration line was being handled by grandmas who had no idea how to type on a laptop and used their index fingers for data entry. A process that should take one or two minutes for each badge ended up taking seven or eight.

Convention center union rules. Another advantage of mailing the badges. You can pay a lot less money to the union for fewer at-con registration booths.

Ametto

If getting your badge mailed is something that is optional, I definitely can see that working.

Apreche

If getting your badge mailed is something that is optional, I definitely can see that working.

Not a bad idea. It could work if mailing was the default, and you had to specifically ask for will call if you wanted otherwise. Maybe even charge a $1 fee for will call if too many people ask for it.

Cthulhu32

A quick note about emulating Cliffhanger: you can find Laserdisc rips all over bit torrent sites or rom download sites for pretty much any Laserdisc game. Do a quick search for "Cliff Hanger Restored" on Mininova, then take a look at DAPHNE for the emulator. DAPHNE is probably the best arcade Laserdisc emulator you'll find on the net. (Daphne Homepages)

I remember buying a SegaCD for those playback games including Time Gal and Cadillacs and Dinosaurs. The quality was terrible because of the encoding Sega/developers did to fit those movies on the CD, but damn it was cool to play those games on a home console back in the day.

jlawson70

I don't think it's that expensive. A scanner cost under $100 and to set up a barcode system to send by email doesn't seem like much. Hell, Dan at our old anime club did it with the free cat scanner that came in the mail.

I just found one that cost $65.

Yeah, Dan could do it because he was just one person with a lot of technical knowledge. He coded the system himself. He knew how to use it, and was able to fix any problems with it. He also had a long period of time to test the system without any pressure.

Anime conventions have shit for technical expertise. Just look at their shit web sites. We offer to help them, but they refuse. Any technical solution would not have a lot of time to be stress tested. It basically has to accellerate to full speed as soon as the convention starts, and not crash. That's pretty much impossible. Also, you have to train all these people in how to use it properly. It will be more trouble than it is worth.

At a hacker con, everyone is technologically smart, so there is no problem. At anime conventions, there are people there who don't even have computers. I've met them. Remember, when you are online you tend to be interacting only with the people in a community who are also technologically proficient. Most people at anime cons are technologically retarded. This is why when there is a tech conference, like SXSW, you see a bajillion Tweets, but you see barely any Otakon tweets by comparison, even though Otakon is larger.

I might have a chance to compare this since I will be attending an anime and linux con the same weekend.

Churba

Making Plastic ID badges would be a good plan for a larger con.
If you have the equipment - Pretty much a small Thermal Sublimation printer or two, and a copy of the appropriate software, A justifiable one off expense for a larger con - you can make a full colour, photo and bar-code ID at about 50 Cents a badge, if that. They're also really hard for your average person to counterfeit, tough as all hell.

Josh Bytes

The traditional hierarchy in conventions really sounds like that should be scrapped. Rym's story of him of only being allowed to volunteer as a gopher? I know nothing of running a convention but I do know if somebody came to me with prior experience of running one of the largest anime clubs in the country. I would not stupidly relegate them to be a fetch boy.

Churba

The traditional hierarchy in conventions really sounds like that should be scrapped. Rym's story of him of only being allowed to volunteer as a gopher? I know nothing of running a convention but I do know if somebody came to me with prior experience of running one of the largest anime clubs in the country. I would not stupidly relegate them to be a fetch boy.

That's the problem with any ongoing thing with any sort of Hirarchy or positioning - politics eventually creeps in, no matter how hard you try to keep it out. Jerry's the con head, but elaine is gunning for that position, and George is on her side helping her along, and Kramer is against all of them, running for himself, and god help any newcomers who might threaten their position in the future trying to come in.

Generally, the more inconsequential the status of the governing body, the more vicious and silly the politics become - after all, look at just about any student government, anywhere.

Cremlian

The traditional hierarchy in conventions really sounds like that should be scrapped. Rym's story of him of only being allowed to volunteer as a gopher? I know nothing of running a convention but I do know if somebody came to me with prior experience of running one of the largest anime clubs in the country. I would not stupidly relegate them to be a fetch boy.

Your also missing the fact that it's generally very risky to have someone come in out of nowhere and take over a position (or take a person who's job it is to entertain to manage) While I know Rym is competent he can't expect people to just suddenly trust someone just because they run a few panels and do a well crafted podcast. Ideally you want to have someone "assist" the main person for a year and then take over the position.

Rym

it's generally very risky to have someone come in out of nowhere and take over a position

I didn't expect to be suddenly placed as the con chair or the some department head, but the general policy of starting people as "gophers" or the like, as opposed to simply "staff," goes a long way to keep talented people out and skew the demographic toward poor punk kids looking for a cheaper badge.

Robert

I just want to start an anime convention, just to see if these fixes would work. My last anime con (Minamicon in March) had plastic badges on metal ball chains, so we could just use those, along with say, custom art selected by the attendee. And if somebody claims to lose their badge, they not only pay full price, but get a special badge that marks that person out as having lost their badge. also, if there has to be photo ID, I'd rather use it for the lost badge line, or the pre-reg line.

ColdfireSerge

I linked this episode to some of the other staff of my convention. At the very least it has sparked discussion. I'm pushing for the schedule gaps, and we're talking about classing up Opening Ceremonies and adding discussion to the showings rooms.
The mailing badges point has been talked about a lot, and I really hope you can get out that show soon.

VinceA

We followed some of your ideas about the video rooms this year at AnimeNEXT. We had a panel & video presentation combined in our main video room that wasn't time constrained. We're looking to move to more of those next year. I'm looking to hopefully get some of the older guys in fandom to explain to the younglings why things like Yamato, Gatchaman, etc are important to stuff that came later.

I'll pass along the link to this podcast to the rest of the staff to see if any of the ideas sink in.