A fundamental aspect of the human condition is dealing with hardship. By removing these experiences, you remove what makes us human, for better or for worse.
The me of last week, before I had the experience of watching Xanadu, was no less human than the me of today, but definitely less emasculated. I think the best applications would be on erasing replicable good memories.
A fundamental aspect of the human condition is dealing with hardship. By removing these experiences, you remove what makes us human, for better or for worse.
The me of last week, before I had the experience of watching Xanadu, was no less human than the me of today, but definitely less emasculated. I think the best applications would be on erasing replicable good memories.
You prefer not to learn from mistakes. I agree with Joe on the matter of curiosity.
I think people are wrong when they assume that they are necessarily better for their experiences. There are countless examples where one could argue that experiences and knowledge have royally fudged up a person's life. If you were to look at alternate versions of those people, it's quite possible that they would be happier, healthier, and better for not having experienced certain things.
A fundamental aspect of the human condition is dealing with hardship. By removing these experiences, you remove what makes us human, for better or for worse.
It also makes it incredibly difficult to learn from mistakes or develop any depth. While there are experiences I wish I never had, I know that they shaped my character, my relationships and my future choices. Choosing to forget something is denying reality and would pull a person farther and farther away from the life, relationships, and sanity they once enjoyed.
One thing Rym and Scott failed to mention was if you were immortal, would that also mean your children would be immortal? Or would you be sterile for whatever reason. If you were not sterile and could conceive children that were also immortal. Would you?
You guys realize you've all forgotten things already...The loss and fading of Memories is part of being human. I'm to the point where a lot of my earliest memories are probably just creations from photographs I've seen and recreated the memory in my head.
You guys realize you've all forgotten things already...The loss and fading of Memories is part of being human. I'm to the point where a lot of my earliest memories are probably just creations from photographs I've seen and recreated the memory in my head.
True, but memories one would want to erase would probably be very poignant and visceral memories, ones that would otherwise not be forgotten.
True, but memories one would want to erase would probably be very poignant and visceral memories, ones that would otherwise not be forgotten.
I'm just saying if one was immortal and lived for centuries, how much would you still retain from your childhood at that point other then aspects you wrote down or major events or events that happened later that were influenced by your decisions earlier in life. Lets say for example for you forgot all of middle school, you didn't forget all the stuff you learned (that built into something bigger) or the fact that you went to middle school but you can't remember the people you interacted with or the events that felt important to you at the time. Middle school still influenced your actions for the next 10 or whatever years, but now you don't really remember much from that time. It's much like how you wait a few years before reading a book over again, until enough of it has faded and it at least feels somewhat fresh again. So, a more forgetful immortal would still change and benefit by life continuing to be fresh even after he's experienced so much. The point is I still remember the lessons I learned from middle school but I don't remember every time I was harassed and teased.
I won't even get to the point where I discuss the fact that most people's memories of an event are highly edited and incorrect anyhow. The more people think about an event the more they take whatever they actually want from the event instead of what they should heave learned. I've had bullies from high school not remember being horribly mean to me all throughout high school (my brother in law... sigh).
I think people are wrong when they assume that they are necessarily better for their experiences.
Never said that. In fact, reading back over the thread, I don't think Anybody said that. What seems to be the popular opinion is that they make us who we are, for better or worse.
You guys realize you've all forgotten things already...The loss and fading of Memories is part of being human. I'm to the point where a lot of my earliest memories are probably just creations from photographs I've seen and recreated the memory in my head.
True, but the ability to selectively forget would be abused in a heartbeat. Also, they way BS described the memory loss he was putting forward, it sounded like he was describing Total loss of a particular memory - so it wouldn't be "I don't really remember my trip to Blackpool in the late seventies..." it would be "What? What are you talking about? I've never been to Blackpool, you're raving mad!"
I'm just saying if one was immortal and lived for centuries, how much would you still retain from your childhood at that point other then aspects you wrote down or major events or events that happened later that were influenced by your decisions earlier in life.
It depends on what other super powers a person would have. Seriously, Scott, you are discussing immortality as if it would still follow the same biological principles of life. Immortality itself implies a very different biology.
Of course memory degrades; however, that is not what is being proposed. Selectively forgetting painful events doesn't really happen except in the case of repressed memories (and even that is an unconscious response and seen as a mental disorder that must be treated). The worst things that a person has ever done or experienced tend to be some of their strongest and most vivid memories. This is basic self-preservation and learning. If a person were to forget that an ex-boyfriend had beaten them, would they be able to learn from that experience and avoid the characteristics that indicate a violence or abusiveness in future partners? If I chose to forget my cancer and chemotherapy, would I be vigilant in watching for early warning signs, or better prepared to handle a recurrence? Moreover, would I lose or taint the good memories associated with the painful memories? Will I forget my courtship with Adam because it happened toward the end of my chemo treatment? Will this alter my feelings for him or my personality? I can't see how it wouldn't.
Taking the bad with the good is part of being human as is letting time (and sometimes therapy) take the sting out of painful memories while leaving useful information in tact.
This is one of those episodes where I would have really, really enjoyed it if I hand listened to it ten years ago, but unfortunately I'd already run into all the ideas you guys discussed already. I'm sort of tempted to write something long about my own opinions on whether immortality is worth while, but there's this sequence of blog posts here that say pretty much everything I'd want to on the issue.
As to books dealing with what its like to be immortal, there are a lot of them out there and many are quite good. Rather than deluge you all with more recommendation than you'll read let me just suggest John C. Wright's Golden Oecumene series. The "subtle critique of Ayn Rand" aspect might turn some people off, but I thought it was interesting, well written, and downright poetic in places.
In particular I'm thinking Rym will like some of the psuedo-Victorian dressing and greek mythology references.
EDIT: In fact, I'd be willing to bet it would become one of your top five favorite books if you read it.
I will have to say that selective ability to forget things would be a gift for me. I have experienced a lot in the last month that I would much prefer to forget ever happened. Despite this, I can see that if I were to forget these things occurred, I would have to forget other things as well. And though I do not like sounding pessimistic, I can also say that I would not like immortality. I say this because from my experiences in life, Karma hates me, and until the happiness in my life is able to out weigh the sadness, immortality is of no use to me. As my experiences have shown me, sadness often out weighs meh happiness.
Mrs. MacRoss mentioned learning from things such as abusive ex-boyfriends. I can agree with this. However, given that an abusive ex-boyfriend is part of the bad that has haunted me recently, I cannot entirely agree. My boyfriend was mentally abusive, not physically. We have been apart for a month now and it has been the worst month of my life. Having been broken down so thoroughly by a person, it takes a long time to get over. But I wish to point out that through this I do still love him for what little happiness he gave me at the beginning of our relationship. And to this day, despite the pain he caused me, I would in a second take him back if I every spoke to him. This is one reason why I avoid him. Having experience the pain has not changed my opinion or my love for him. Knowing this, I will have to say that the memories of him and us are a source of pain and nothing more. Those memories do not help me in anyway other than to create sadness. In my opinion forgetting him and everything that ever happened between us is the only way that I can truly move on. As I am now, everything I see reminds me of him and causes pain. And from this I have in fact been physically ill as a result of the emotional strain caused by these memories. So I would like to point out that retaining memories is not always beneficial.
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One of the better videos they have posted:
I won't even get to the point where I discuss the fact that most people's memories of an event are highly edited and incorrect anyhow. The more people think about an event the more they take whatever they actually want from the event instead of what they should heave learned. I've had bullies from high school not remember being horribly mean to me all throughout high school (my brother in law... sigh).
Of course memory degrades; however, that is not what is being proposed. Selectively forgetting painful events doesn't really happen except in the case of repressed memories (and even that is an unconscious response and seen as a mental disorder that must be treated). The worst things that a person has ever done or experienced tend to be some of their strongest and most vivid memories. This is basic self-preservation and learning. If a person were to forget that an ex-boyfriend had beaten them, would they be able to learn from that experience and avoid the characteristics that indicate a violence or abusiveness in future partners? If I chose to forget my cancer and chemotherapy, would I be vigilant in watching for early warning signs, or better prepared to handle a recurrence? Moreover, would I lose or taint the good memories associated with the painful memories? Will I forget my courtship with Adam because it happened toward the end of my chemo treatment? Will this alter my feelings for him or my personality? I can't see how it wouldn't.
Taking the bad with the good is part of being human as is letting time (and sometimes therapy) take the sting out of painful memories while leaving useful information in tact.
As to books dealing with what its like to be immortal, there are a lot of them out there and many are quite good. Rather than deluge you all with more recommendation than you'll read let me just suggest John C. Wright's Golden Oecumene series. The "subtle critique of Ayn Rand" aspect might turn some people off, but I thought it was interesting, well written, and downright poetic in places.
In particular I'm thinking Rym will like some of the psuedo-Victorian dressing and greek mythology references.
EDIT: In fact, I'd be willing to bet it would become one of your top five favorite books if you read it.
Mrs. MacRoss mentioned learning from things such as abusive ex-boyfriends. I can agree with this. However, given that an abusive ex-boyfriend is part of the bad that has haunted me recently, I cannot entirely agree. My boyfriend was mentally abusive, not physically. We have been apart for a month now and it has been the worst month of my life. Having been broken down so thoroughly by a person, it takes a long time to get over. But I wish to point out that through this I do still love him for what little happiness he gave me at the beginning of our relationship. And to this day, despite the pain he caused me, I would in a second take him back if I every spoke to him. This is one reason why I avoid him. Having experience the pain has not changed my opinion or my love for him. Knowing this, I will have to say that the memories of him and us are a source of pain and nothing more. Those memories do not help me in anyway other than to create sadness. In my opinion forgetting him and everything that ever happened between us is the only way that I can truly move on. As I am now, everything I see reminds me of him and causes pain. And from this I have in fact been physically ill as a result of the emotional strain caused by these memories. So I would like to point out that retaining memories is not always beneficial.