By that logic, if someone donates a kidney to someone the donor should be able to say what is processed through that kidney.
Well, there's sort of a precedent for this. It's really hard to get a liver transplant if you're an alcoholic, and most transplant centers require evidence of abstinence from alcohol and the seeking of treatment.
It's not the same as the donor exerting control over the tissue, but it's related.
I would argue that if a pregnant woman could be proven unfit to make her own health care decisions (through some severe psychosis or something akin to that), then someone else would have to make the call. That would be a rare circumstance, though.
By that logic, if someone donates a kidney to someone the donor should be able to say what is processed through that kidney.
Well, there's sort of a precedent for this. It's really hard to get a liver transplant if you're an alcoholic, and most transplant centers require evidence of abstinence from alcohol and the seeking of treatment.
That is based on past behavior. I am speaking of current/future behavior. If the donation has gone through, the tissue is forfeit.
I would argue that if a pregnant woman could be proven unfit to make her own health care decisions (through some severe psychosis or something akin to that), then someone else would have to make the call. That would be a rare circumstance, though.
Except that whole "hormones make even the most rational women think irrational things" and itmustbe the mother part.
Hormone levels shouldn't come in to play in this case. If they did and the woman would be considered acting irrational, then she would be unfit to make a rational decision. The responsibility to make a rational decision would then fall up on the father...
I'm saying that women can't be considered irrational, BUT then they MUST be the ones to make the decision. That doesn't make any sense. I'm disagree with that part of Pete's statement.
An abortion may affect the mother but it affects the fetus more so.
I'm saying that women can't be considered irrational, BUT then they MUST be the ones to make the decision.
It's not like she's permanently irrational. Hormones tend to exacerbate mood swings. She may have an irrational moment, but that can be worked through, and it doesn't necessarily mean you're incapable of making a rational decision. Pregnancy does not turn a woman into a raving psychopath for 9 months. It may influence your judgment, but that's just another reason to talk about it.
This goes without saying.
In my experience, though you often think you're being redundant, nothing should go without saying. Things are not always obvious to everyone.
"Pete, I can't get your SOP to work." "Did you read it first?" "No." *facepalm*
Except that whole "hormones make even the most rational women think irrational things" and itmustbe the mother part.
Hormone levels shouldn't come in to play in this case. If they did and the woman would be considered acting irrational, then she would be unfit to make a rational decision. The responsibility to make a rational decision would then fall up on the father...
WTF?! Just because someone is "hormonal" doesn't equate to them being incapable of rational thought.
An abortion may affect the mother but it affects the fetus more so.
I don't see the fetus as a factor here anymore than my liver is a factor when I decide to drink.
What if you and Scott really did join to combing Scrym? How do you think Scott would feel about your drinking habits then? I don't want someone else to be able to deny me what would have been my child.
I would never tell a woman to get an abortion. That's sick. As someone who would eventually like to be a father, I'd appreciate a "Hold on a sec!" option if the woman carrying our child decided to get an abortion/home birth without my consent or care of my feelings.
In the WORSE case, I would attempt to get a court order preventing her from getting the procedure and keep this in the court system until abortion is no longer an option for her. She would hate me for life and I would not blame her.
An abortion may affect the mother but it affects the fetus more so.
I don't see the fetus as a factor here anymore than my liver is a factor when I decide to drink.
What if you and Scott really did join to combing Scrym? How do you think Scott would feel about your drinking habits then? I don't want someone else to be able to deny me what would have been my child.
They are denying you a potential child, not a child. If you want a child then adopt one or be with a woman that also wants one. Also, while you may not want someone to make that decision, it is ultimately their decision to make.
In theWORSEcase, I would attempt to get a court order preventing her from getting the procedure and keep this in the court system until abortion is no longer an option for her. She would hate me for life and I would not blame her.
Actually, IIRC you can't keep her from getting it. What you can do is seek damages after she has an abortion. She can go at any time and have the procedure.
Wyatt, let's say you're a baseball team owner. You pay players to play baseball for you. You hope they win. But, you can't really control them anymore than anyone can control their employees. If they fail, they fail. You can't go and win the games for them because you don't have the skills. All you can do is invest in them, and the rest is risk.
The same is true when you are a man who wants to form babby. You don't have the ability to form your own babby just like a baseball team owner usually can't play baseball very well. You have to get people who do have the ability to cooperate with you. If they don't want to cooperate, tough shit. You might be able to penalize them by suspending them, taking money away, etc. But you can't control them entirely. You can't make them swing if they don't want to. All you can do is fire them and get someone else.
I know Wyatt you are so sad that you always wanted to be born a woman, but that's just not how it's going to be. You don't have the ability to make your own baby. If you want one, you just have to get someone else to do it for you, and hope they cooperate just like a team owner hopes his team will win.
In theWORSEcase, I would attempt to get a court order preventing her from getting the procedure and keep this in the court system until abortion is no longer an option for her. She would hate me for life and I would not blame her.
Wyatt, wow. Just wow. Fuck you, man. That's bullshit. Babby part of lady's body = babby lady's decision. End of story.
In theWORSEcase, I would attempt to get a court order preventing her from getting the procedure and keep this in the court system until abortion is no longer an option for her. She would hate me for life and I would not blame her.
Wyatt, wow. Just wow. Fuck you, man. That's bullshit. Babby part of lady's body = babby lady's decision. End of story.
Also, that is not how the law works, so it is a fairy tale.
Pro-choice all the way here along with Emily. To quote Jay from Dogma "A woman's body is her own fucking business".
LOL. Emily + Yupa = true love forevah ^_~
Eh? What is this heresy that I hear spewing from Goody (or so I thought) MacRoss' mouth! I'm still pumped from being in the presence of watching "The Crucible" being practiced since I'm part of the stage crew so...yeah.
Pro-choice all the way here along with Emily. To quote Jay from Dogma "A woman's body is her own fucking business".
LOL. Emily + Yupa = true love forevah ^_~
Eh? What is this heresy that I hear spewing from Goody (or so I thought) MacRoss' mouth! I'm still pumped from being in the presence of watching "The Crucible" being practiced since I'm part of the stage crew so...yeah.
There were several people espousing pro-choice (Pete, Rym and myself) and you chose to single out Emily. It is just funny in light of the running gag that you have an Internet crush on her.
Pro-choice all the way here along with Emily. To quote Jay from Dogma "A woman's body is her own fucking business".
LOL. Emily + Yupa = true love forevah ^_~
Eh? What is this heresy that I hear spewing from Goody (or so I thought) MacRoss' mouth! I'm still pumped from being in the presence of watching "The Crucible" being practiced since I'm part of the stage crew so...yeah.
There were several people espousing pro-choice (Pete, Rym and myself) and you chose to single out Emily. It is just funny in light of the running gag that you have an Internet crush on her.
Wait what? Since when was there an internet gag about this crush that you (and I assume others in with the joke) seem to label it as?
I know Wyatt you are so sad that you always wanted to be born a woman, but that's just not how it's going to be. You don't have the ability to make your own baby. If you want one, you just have to get someone else to do it for you, and hope they cooperate just like a team owner hopes his team will win.
1st: I hate baseball and baseball analogies! 2nd: I like being a man, but I could deal with getting a baby factory upgrade. Why do you think I've really been growing my hair out? Not really, but I am digging the long hair 3rd: I'm swinging for the fences every time I get up to bat. ;P
Sos, I was in me ol' shack down by de swamp, me, and den in cahms Antoine. He say, "Swamp Lawyer, I needs yo' hep. I done laid dahn to takes mah rest, and Marie, she say someting I can't forget yet. She say she get de abo'twa - and me? She no tell me. Don' I gots no rats, me Swamp Lawyer?"
I say, "You gots de faiblesse, p'tit boug? You be un pouve motier foux. Dat Soopreme Court, she done decide in Planned Parenthood v. Danforth an' Planned Parenthood v. Casey dat you done gots no rats in a case lak dis. De womens, dey means no good to no man."
Later dat day, I wents to de ol' dried up crawdad hole to watch dem crawdads die. Ah, oui.
New York can confine people afflicted with TB who refuse treatment, and even force said treatment upon them, for the benefit of public health. Is that all right?
Not only is it alright, I would go so far as to say that anyone who resists treatment in that case is guilty of criminal negligence.
Actually, it's reckless endangerment, at least in New York.
Honestly, I think any pre-existing agreement between the parents is irrelevant if the mother changes her mind.
In response to Wyatt's questioning of this - Legally, it depends on if the agreement was a legally binding contract or not. It's pretty hard to have a contract that the courts will uphold about this kind of thing. You'd basically have to have an agreement that was put together by a lawyer to make sure you had everything you needed in there, and even then the lawyer might tell you that it just won't stand because it's unconscionable. Obviously, morally, people can think whatever they want.
As for getting a court order preventing a woman from getting an abortion...let me know how that goes for you. Pretty sure you'll have a hard time with that. Suffice it to say that it's unlikely you'd survive past a 12(b)(6) motion.
HJ: If you and I weren't married to others, I would run away with you.
Come live with me, and be my love, And we will some new pleasures prove Of golden sands, and crystal brooks, With silken lines, and silver hooks.
There will the river whispering run, Warmed by thy eyes more than the sun. And there the enamoured fish will stay. Begging themselves they may betray.
When wilt thou swim in that live bath, Each fish, which every channel hath, Will amorously to thee swim, Gladder to catch thee, than thou him.
If thou, to be so seen, beest loath, By sun or moon, thou dark'nest both; And if myself have leave to see, I need not their light, having thee.
Let others freeze with angling reeds, And cut their legs with shells and weeds, Or treacherously poor fish beset With strangling snare, or windowy net.
Let course bold hand from slimy nest The bedded fish in banks out-wrest, Or curious traitors, sleave-silk flies, Bewitch poor fishes' wandering eyes.
For thee, thou need'st no such deceit, For thou thyself are thine own bait; That fish that is not catched thereby, Alas, is wiser far than I.
- HungryJohn Donne
I never loved Hope I never will For a lovin' proposition Will get somebody killed
As for getting a court order preventing a woman from getting an abortion...let me know how that goes for you. Pretty sure you'll have a hard time with that. Suffice it to say that it's unlikely you'd survive past a 12(b)(6) motion.
Someone actually tried that in Conn v. Conn, 525 NE2d 612 (he failed, and was smitten to the ground) discussed in this informative law review article.
Sos, I was in me ol' shack down by de swamp, me, and den in cahms Antoine. He say, "Swamp Lawyer, I needs yo' hep. I done laid dahn to takes mah rest, and Marie, she say someting I can't forget yet. She say she get de abo'twa - and me? She no tell me. Don' I gots no rats, me Swamp Lawyer?"
I say, "You gots de faiblesse, p'tit boug? You be un pouve motier foux. Dat Soopreme Court, she done decide inPlanned Parenthood v. Danforthan'Planned Parenthood v. Caseydat you done gots no rats in a case lak dis. De womens, dey means no good to no man."
Later dat day, I wents to de ol' dried up crawdad hole to watch dem crawdads die. Ah, oui.
"Dang it Swamp Lawyer! Mama t'was right. Dem's womens is the Devil!"
Comments
It's not the same as the donor exerting control over the tissue, but it's related.
I would argue that if a pregnant woman could be proven unfit to make her own health care decisions (through some severe psychosis or something akin to that), then someone else would have to make the call. That would be a rare circumstance, though.
I'm saying that women can't be considered irrational, BUT then they MUST be the ones to make the decision. That doesn't make any sense. I'm disagree with that part of Pete's statement.
An abortion may affect the mother but it affects the fetus more so.
"Pete, I can't get your SOP to work."
"Did you read it first?"
"No."
*facepalm*
I would never tell a woman to get an abortion. That's sick. As someone who would eventually like to be a father, I'd appreciate a "Hold on a sec!" option if the woman carrying our child decided to get an abortion/home birth without my consent or care of my feelings.
In the WORSE case, I would attempt to get a court order preventing her from getting the procedure and keep this in the court system until abortion is no longer an option for her. She would hate me for life and I would not blame her.
The same is true when you are a man who wants to form babby. You don't have the ability to form your own babby just like a baseball team owner usually can't play baseball very well. You have to get people who do have the ability to cooperate with you. If they don't want to cooperate, tough shit. You might be able to penalize them by suspending them, taking money away, etc. But you can't control them entirely. You can't make them swing if they don't want to. All you can do is fire them and get someone else.
I know Wyatt you are so sad that you always wanted to be born a woman, but that's just not how it's going to be. You don't have the ability to make your own baby. If you want one, you just have to get someone else to do it for you, and hope they cooperate just like a team owner hopes his team will win.
Babby part of lady's body = babby lady's decision. End of story.
2nd: I like being a man, but I could deal with getting a baby factory upgrade. Why do you think I've really been growing my hair out? Not really, but I am digging the long hair
3rd: I'm swinging for the fences every time I get up to bat. ;P
@Joe: Sure.
I say, "You gots de faiblesse, p'tit boug? You be un pouve motier foux. Dat Soopreme Court, she done decide in Planned Parenthood v. Danforth an' Planned Parenthood v. Casey dat you done gots no rats in a case lak dis. De womens, dey means no good to no man."
Later dat day, I wents to de ol' dried up crawdad hole to watch dem crawdads die. Ah, oui.
Reckless Endangerment
Definition of serious physical injury In response to Wyatt's questioning of this - Legally, it depends on if the agreement was a legally binding contract or not. It's pretty hard to have a contract that the courts will uphold about this kind of thing. You'd basically have to have an agreement that was put together by a lawyer to make sure you had everything you needed in there, and even then the lawyer might tell you that it just won't stand because it's unconscionable. Obviously, morally, people can think whatever they want.
As for getting a court order preventing a woman from getting an abortion...let me know how that goes for you. Pretty sure you'll have a hard time with that. Suffice it to say that it's unlikely you'd survive past a 12(b)(6) motion.
*hides*
And we will some new pleasures prove
Of golden sands, and crystal brooks,
With silken lines, and silver hooks.
There will the river whispering run,
Warmed by thy eyes more than the sun.
And there the enamoured fish will stay.
Begging themselves they may betray.
When wilt thou swim in that live bath,
Each fish, which every channel hath,
Will amorously to thee swim,
Gladder to catch thee, than thou him.
If thou, to be so seen, beest loath,
By sun or moon, thou dark'nest both;
And if myself have leave to see,
I need not their light, having thee.
Let others freeze with angling reeds,
And cut their legs with shells and weeds,
Or treacherously poor fish beset
With strangling snare, or windowy net.
Let course bold hand from slimy nest
The bedded fish in banks out-wrest,
Or curious traitors, sleave-silk flies,
Bewitch poor fishes' wandering eyes.
For thee, thou need'st no such deceit,
For thou thyself are thine own bait;
That fish that is not catched thereby,
Alas, is wiser far than I.
- HungryJohn Donne
I never loved
Hope I never will
For a lovin' proposition
Will get somebody killed
- HungryJoe Turner
What about endagering the welfare of a child? Can you hit someone for both?
Tu es si jolie, ma cher.