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New Health Care Bill

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  • These guys are mostly just Libertarians bordering on Anarchists with R's on their voting reg cards.
  • edited January 2010
    The long for an America where everyone forges their own way on their personal merits, like it was when they were kids (or so they think).
    See, that would be great. The guy's idea isn't necessarily a bad one: work hard, get a better job, strive for greatness, etc. The problem is that we don't equip people with the tools necessary to do that, and not everyone is in a position to get a job with benefits.
    Additionally, people, no matter how educated, successful, or skillful, can be left without a job through no fault of their own by layoffs and the like that are totally outside of their control. While they are on their own, it can be very difficult to find private insurance, especially if they have a "pre-existing condition".
    These guys are mostly just Libertarians bordering on Anarchists with R's on their voting reg cards.
    True.
    Post edited by HungryJoe on
  • The level of asshole-dom and self-centered-ness of these people literally knows no bounds.
    Life is a gamble, insurance companies owe it to their stock holders to make profit, taking people with pre-existing conditions cuts into that profit and violates their duty to their stock holders.

    I don't see how lack of foresight and other people's bad luck should be my problem.
    Just wow.

    The only slightly rational argument I've seen is that this will quickly lead to socialist medicine. But that's just a slippery slope argument.
  • socialist medicine
    Do you mean socialized medicine?
  • edited January 2010
    Do you mean socialized medicine?
    No, socialist, it sounds more badder.

    There are a few informed people, and we're having some fun with this.
    COBRA is a law, or a regulation passed by our goverment that applies to private industry - FYI.

    :sneeze:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consoli...on_Act_of_1985

    http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/health-plans/cobra.htm
    Ewwwww, you got facts all over the debating table. That's just disgusting...
    Post edited by George Patches on
  • The only slightly rational argument I've seen is that this will quickly lead to socialist medicine.
    We already have socialized medicine anyway, so that's a useless argument.
  • We already have socialized medicine anyway, so that's a useless argument.
    But do we Pete? Do we?
  • We already have socialized medicine anyway, so that's a useless argument.
    But do we Pete? Do we?
    Yes we do, it just has giant holes in it because people are so afraid of "socialist" medicine and really don't understand how the various models for national comprehensive medical coverage work and those that are in power receive large sums of money from various private companies whose profit margins would be damaged by the advent of a people actually taking care of their own - no matter how poor.
  • From each according to his ability (and will), to each according to his need.

    Barring the edge conditions, it's pretty straightforward.
  • I just love that it's called COBRA.

    "Dr Destro Will see you now. Paging Cobra Commander, Paging Cobra Commander, You're needed in Pediatrics."
  • edited January 2010
    Sure, other people's bad luck is never your problem... until you have some bad luck of your own and you want other people to help you out. These people aren't looking at the government system from behind the veil of ignorance; they are only interested in helping people in the positions they are in or aspire to be in. If they had any sense that they were likely to be at the bottom, they would want the bottom to be an okay place to be. Maybe not great, but at least passable. As in, you shouldn't have to die from a curable disease because you couldn't afford health care or starve because you couldn't afford food. There's enough wealth and skill in this country to provide that.

    These people have a lack of ability/will to empathize with those who are in bad situations, and they can't foresee the possibility of ever being in that situation themselves. It's pretty useless talking to them.
    Post edited by Nuri on
  • It's pretty useless talking to them.
  • The more important question is why are you talking politics in a car forum?
  • The more important question is why are you talking politics in this forum?
  • edited January 2010
    The more important question is why are you talking politics on the internet?
    Post edited by George Patches on
  • The more important question is why are you on the internet?
  • The more important question is why are you talking politics inthisforum?
    We have a Politics Category...
  • The more important question is why are you talking politics inthisforum?
    We have a Politics Category...
    Also, you are forming a political party and you are using GN and FRC as a pool of supporters, mayhaps?
  • edited January 2010
    That's not true, I don't think Kilarney wanted no health care reform. I think he wanted a reform that wasn't completely written by lobbyists and made in back rooms.
    QFT.

    I was approved today for dual citizenship with a country that has universal health care. (As it stands now, I'd have to travel there for free health care, so there is a cost involved.) But for me, this issue has become increasingly academic.

    Technically, my application was approved, but it still has to be sent from the consulate to the home country to become officially adopted. It's a matter of someone entering the paperwork into the local records. It takes a month or two, unfortunately. This was three years in the making, and a lot of work. I had to jump through tons of hoops for approval. Today is a happy day!

    I've always thought that doing something about a problem is better than merely complaining.

    My children will obtain dual citizenship at the same time that I do. This will give them a lot of options.
    Post edited by Kilarney on
  • Technically, my application was approved, but it still has to be sent from the consulate to the home country to become officially adopted. It's a matter of someone entering the paperwork into the local records. It takes a month or two, unfortunately. This was three years in the making, and a lot of work. I had to jump through tons of hoops for approval. Today is a happy day!

    My children will obtain dual citizenship at the same time that I do. This will give them a lot of options.
    Where, if I may enquire? I'm EU/US.
  • EU/US for me. I'll say once it's official.
  • edited January 2010
    EU/US/Australian would be win. Unfortunately, I've only got Australian now (though I used to be Russian/Australian).
    Post edited by lackofcheese on
  • EU/US/Australian would be win.
    One day, I hope to accomplish this.
  • The nice thing about EU is that you can live and work anywhere within the EU with no visa.
  • edited January 2010
    Well, it's not going to get any easier to pass meaningful health care reform after the next election cycle thanks to the United States Supreme Court. Ugh. I knew it would be hard to take on the corporations, but this is downright depressing.

    I completely understand the constitutional argument. The problem, however, is that our founding fathers understood that government should be the people's government. The Constitution was a reflection of this. Sure, we have checks against the tyranny of the majority, but I don't think corporations were ever supposed to have more influence than the people.

    Politics is a mess. Plain and simple.
    Post edited by Kilarney on
  • Are stockholders not people?
  • They are, and they have every right to speak. The problem is the unlimited use of money as a lever.

    Corporations are designed to shield people from financial risks. They. are. not. people.
  • edited January 2010
    What case was brought before the supreme court that resulted in this ruling?

    EDIT: N/M, thanks Citizens United! *finger*
    Post edited by George Patches on
  • Are stockholders not people?
    They are. And they can donate however they want. I have no problem with that.
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