HELP!!!!

BlackVelvetPlease

Hey everyone I need some help. I'm doing a 50,000 word challenge for Writing month and I have no idea where to take my story now. I started it off of an assignment I recently did for one of my classes. The two main characters are a girl named angel - a spunky independent type and a guy names Issac - a slightly arrogant guy who is kind of an ass but really a nice guy oh and he’s an incubus. They work together in a restaurant/cafe type place, which I have yet to go into detail about, and Issac is a new manager who started there only 3 months ago. these two have a love hate relationship going on where they’re constantly going at it with snippy 'word battled' nothing romantic has happened really yet. I’ve had Issac enter angels dream and try to seduce her but she kicks him out and he’s crushed. The next morning he tells the other 2 of 3 (3 min, I’m still debating if I should add more who will actually be introduced to make it more like a pack) incubi he’s living with, Joseph and Carlos. (My friends picked the names and helped me with the appearances) so now they want to meet her. Alekzander is the 3rd incubus he lives with.

I’m thinking about going into a scene with angel talking with one of her friends but besides that I have lost the story, so I need help!!! ANY AND ALL SUGGESTIONS ARE WELCOME!!!!
and if you want the story to get the full details vs. my crappy snippet there just contact me via Skype or aim or leave someplace I can contact you at...I’m also eventually going to need an editor cause I suck at spelling and grammar, and I don’t do editing well. THANK SO MUCH!!!

Sail

I hate to say it, but part of NaNoWriMo is to make mistakes like this. If you want to meet the goal, just keep writing and don't worry about it being perfect. If you don't care about the goal, then give your story some more thought and rewrite it from the beginning.

BlackVelvetPlease

But....what if i care about both?! at the moment i've shifted to doing math in hopes that when i turn to it later Sonic will stop singing in the next room and i can look at it with fresh eyes.


*giggle* sorry i couldn't help but mention that bit about Sonic there.

Funfetus

Do you know how it ends? If you do, just work backward from the ending. If you don't, figure out how it ends, then go to step 1.

Or, aside from that, figure out what your protagonist wants, figure out what gets in the way of your protagonist getting what s/he wants, and then figure out how s/he does or doesn't get it.

BlackVelvetPlease

well i love the Love/Hate relationship they have. it's definatly good for the tension but i dont want to go from: OMG!!! HE WAS IN HER DREAM!!! HES NOT HUMAN!!! to another OMG! moment. I want to give the reader some mental and emotion downtime but not a lot because i know the next major scene is when his incubi friends come to meet him at where he works for lunch. i got point A and point C i just dont know point B
.

Funfetus

well i love the Love/Hate relationship they have.

That's a starting point, but it's not a conflict. Is the conflict that they end up wanting to be together, but they can't because he's an incubus? Is it that he wants her, and she doesn't want him? What happens when his friends come for lunch? That sounds like it should be a complication. What is it complicating? Do they tell her he's an incubus or something, and (seemingly) blow the whole thing? I see a lot of ways you could go with this.

Nuri

You can try writing journal-type short segments from each character's point of view for awhile if you are stuck on plot-advancing writing. That can help get you out of a rut, and you can even discover things about your characters that you didn't know before. Which, in turn, can take your plot places you didn't anticipate.

The key to NaNo is to get words on the page...they don't have to be good or even included in the final version. Just write! If the part you're working on isn't coming out, then change what you're working on.

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But....what if i care about both?!

Then you missed the point of NaNoWriMo. NaNoWriMo is about finally following through on that "One day I will write a novel" idea people have. You can always return at a later time to fix it for quality. Also, your first novel is likely going to be crap, especially with this Twilight rip-off. Next, there's a thread for this (NaNoWriMo), use the Search function before making redundant threads. Then, do you put down multiple exclamation marks in your 'novel' too? Why do it here in your posts? Thank you for your considerations.

Funfetus

I guess maybe it's my turn to say "That's Nineless, he's always like that, just ignore him." His first two sentences were valid, though.

Churba

especially with this Twilight rip-off.

That's too harsh, even for you.

Cremlian

especially with this Twilight rip-off.

You could only hope to write a Twilight rip off that sells half the amount of books... :-p

...

That's too harsh, even for you.

My bad, Buffy the Vampire Slayer rip-off, though that had vampire slaying, so this would require incubus killing. Then again, what's wrong with saying something is a rip-off? That doesn't mean it's bad by default. Get your fucking heads out of the gutter people.

His first two sentences were valid, though.

You're saying she cannot return at a later date to fix it for quality? Well that is a nice way of telling someone it's hopeless. I'm certain it's far from unfixable and that it can be improved after NaNoWriMo. In your attempt to make me look bad, you're acting like the biggest asshole in the thread! Seriously, how is telling someone that their first draft of their first novel is likely to be crap invalid? Most first drafts need fixing, same goes for your drawings. Few people can just draw a good picture the first time they pick up a pencil. How saying that there already is a NaNoWriMo thread invalid? Do you wish me to link you to it Funfetus? How is asking a person a question invalid? Questions don't deal with making claims that are true or false, so they cannot be invalid. Can you please not jump on the retard bandwagon Funfetus? It's already overburdened with people trying to go "DERP!" regardless of what letter I type.

Funfetus

You're saying she cannot return at a later date to fix it for quality? Well that is a nice way of telling someone it's hopeless. I'm certain it's far from unfixable and that it can be improved after NaNoWriMo. In your attempt to make me look bad, you're acting like the biggest asshole in the thread! Seriously, how is telling someone that their first draft of their first novel is likely to be crap invalid? Most first drafts need fixing, same goes for your drawings. Few people can just draw a good picture the first time they pick up a pencil. How saying that there already is a NaNoWriMo thread invalid? Do you wish me to link you to it Funfetus? How is asking a person a question invalid? Questions don't deal with making claims that are true or false, so they cannot be invalid. Can you please not jump on the retard bandwagon Funfetus? It's already overburdened with people trying to go "DERP!" regardless of what letter I type.

So sorry. I'm retarded, but it's actually because I miscounted your sentences. I'm totally on board with your third sentence.

Nuri

especially with this Twilight rip-off.

If all stories that were written on similar premises to something that already existed were banned, we'd have a lot fewer books. Ideas are a dime a dozen - that's why they cannot be copyrighted. People do different things with the same idea. If everyone who wrote about elves and wizards had been told that they were just a Tolkein rip-off and stopped writing, then the modern genre of fantasy would be pretty slim.

In short...so what? Your NaNo novel could be "Earth Girls are Easy" meets "Armageddon" and no one would care, because the point is to write, not for it to be good. The good part comes later during revisions.

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If all stories that were written on similar premises to something that already existed were banned

Stopped reading there. Since obviously you didn't read a letter more of my post.

Then again, what's wrong with saying something is a rip-off? That doesn't mean it's bad by default.

So "Get your fucking heads out of the gutter people."

TheWhaleShark

"Earth Girls are Easy" meets "Armageddon"

I would totally read that book.

Churba

My bad, Buffy the Vampire Slayer rip-off, though that had vampire slaying, so this would require incubus killing. Then again, what's wrong with saying something is a rip-off? That doesn't mean it's bad by default. Get your fucking heads out of the gutter people.

No, seriously - It's like the difference between calling, say, a world leader an Obama Rip-off, or a Saddam Rip-off - There's nothing wrong with saying something is a rip off, but you're still saying that this hypothetical world leader is a rip-off of a Sociopathic dictator who had no problems with doing things like using chemical weapons on his own citizens, for no real reason - it's not justified, unless they're stockpiling the gas canisters.

You have to have some consideration on what you're saying it's a rip off of, and comparing a particularly nasty turd to twilight is an insult to the turd, because at least the former can be polished, and has some worth as fertilizer.

BlackVelvetPlease

Uhhhh..... okay I think everyone need as to chill for a sec. I’m going to address some things.
1) no I do not put that many exclamation point in my writing I just figured that this is a more relaxed atmosphere. so I figured things like that are allowed.
2) More often than not when someone says your writing a rip off or parodies of something it is considered an insult. if you did not mean it that way that’s fine. and even though I was a bit upset about that I would like to point out that I deliberately made Issac an incubus because vampires are way overdone and I did not want people to think of it as Twilight knock off.
3) I did not like Twilight at all. I only watched it for Dr. Cullen and because my neighbor wanted a movie night with me.
4) Incubi/succubi are nothing like vampires. - that alone annoys me. If you don't know anything about the species’ please don't compare them. I did extensive research on both.
5) Woah-oh-ah-aaa-ha-ah, I would seriously reconsider your choice of word because it seems that it’s not just a few people who found your post a bit on the harsh side. I am sure you did not mean it that way though because I imagine that even if you’re not a writer you can understand true writers consider their works like their children and easily take offense. this is something I am working on not doing so much because I find most people don't mean for me to take it personally as I am sure you did not.
6) I apologize for being a redundant poster. I am still getting use to the forum and I simply scanned the arts pages for anything related. I must have missed that thread and I apologize for that.
8)I don’t know about anyone else but swearing in and of itself make it seem like your upset. so I would do it in posts unless you actually are upset. plus it's not exactly polite.
7) there was something else I wanted to say but I forgot.

TheWhaleShark

Then again, what's wrong with saying something is a rip-off? That doesn't mean it's bad by default. Get your fucking heads out of the gutter people.

"Rip-off" has very negative connotations. When you want to use a positive connotation, the proper phrasing is "Twilight-inspired." No, it's not bad by default, but it's a loaded phrase. You are technically correct in your writing, but your communication is poor. It's also possible that you did intend the negative connotations, and now you're using this chance to yell at people and make yourself look smarter. I'll give the benefit of the doubt and say it's the former case, especially considering that English is your second language.

There's the lesson. Yes, you are technically correct, but it's a poor wording choice that requires additional clarification.

Nerissa

Okay, what exactly is Issac doing? Is he just having sex with women or is he trying to father a child? Maybe Issac must father a child with Angel so that he can take human form to destroy the human race. They have a child and it has special powers to fulfill some prophecy. Or, Issac is dealing with the fact that he is a raping demon and he cannot love Angel, because if he keeps having sex with her she will die. Issac has woman issues, because they keep dying on him. Issac needs to be evil, he is a demon, otherwise he needs to fall in love with Angel and decided to become human.

gomidog

I had a dream once where where I was defending a helpless little demon child from some people throwing stones, and remember that I yelled to them "He's not evil! He's just from a bad neighborhood!"
That's the way I approach most of my monster/demon characters: bad upbringing/environment, not bad soul. The evil is not in their nature, but more out of circumstance and habit. Every monster I have written tends to have a chance at redemption.

TheWhaleShark

Every monster I have written tends to have a chance at redemption.

That's great, but there's something very viscerally appealing about the concept of an unrepentantly evil creature.

Kate Monster

Every monster I have written tends to have a chance at redemption.

That's great, but there's something very viscerally appealing about the concept of an unrepentantly evil creature.

For me it is more visceral when there is the option for redemption, and the creature/person persists in being evil.

BlackVelvetPlease

Okay, what exactly is Issac doing? Is he just having sex with women or is he trying to father a child? Maybe Issac must father a child with Angel so that he can take human form to destroy the human race. They have a child and it has special powers to fulfill some prophecy. Or, Issac is dealing with the fact that he is a raping demon and he cannot love Angel, because if he keeps having sex with her she will die. Issac has woman issues, because they keep dying on him. Issac needs to be evil, he is a demon, otherwise he needs to fall in love with Angel and decided to become human.

see thatÂ’s why I chose an incubus, there are so many different types of myths, if you dig deep enough, involving them. the most common type is what you have suggested where they are on a mission to father a demonic child and essential destroy human. then there are a few that note them as the less evil version of succubi. Issac hasnÂ’t done anything yet really and I donÂ’t intend to include a sex scene...because IÂ’m horrible at it. I'm leaning toward the less evil side of incubi. perhaps even making his clan outcasts because they are less evil and only wish to survive vs. father a child and destroy the human race...I mean doing that would destroy their food source and thatÂ’s kind of counterproductive.

I had a dream once where I was defending a helpless little demon child from some people throwing stones, and remember that I yelled to them "He's not evil! He's just from a bad neighborhood!"
That's the way I approach most of my monster/demon characters: bad upbringing/environment, not bad soul. The evil is not in their nature, but more out of circumstance and habit. Every monster I have written tends to have a chance at redemption.

ThatÂ’s a really good hit on the demonic personal crisis. I like the idea of giving them a chance at redemption, and if I can make a horridly modern reference, a bit like Hellboy. Also the point that you make "heÂ’s not evil! He's just from a bad neighborhood!" is really a great view into the concept that we are products of our environment but we also have a choice in the person we become.

Those are really good ideas!Thanks a lot everyone! I also agree with both KateMonster and TheWhaleShark. But I didn't want to fill my post with quotes.

gomidog

That's great, but there's something very viscerally appealing about the concept of an unrepentantly evil creature.

Nah, I think those kinds of characters are boring. The "being of pure evil" or the bad guy who is bad for no reason other than that he simply IS? I find the complex villains much more compelling. The evil which has moments of doubt, or moments of sanity. The evil that is convinced that what they are doing is good and right. The evil who can be kind to their allies, but ruthless to the hero. It's better if they have a thread of good, or a thread of humanity in them, but then reject it due to their convictions and will.

For me it is more visceral when there is the option for redemption, and the creature/person persists in being evil.

Yeah, they are too far gone. They turn away from the light.

You can think of it in human nature: If someone has been hurt, and has in turn hurt other people constantly, the more difficult it will be for them to stop being evil. That was my argument for the aforementioned demon child. He was still little and thus had not absorbed the amount of cruelty that the other demons had learned. An adult demon could be good, it would just be much harder.

horridly modern reference, a bit like Hellboy

I LOVE HELLBOY! (Jus' sayin')

TheWhaleShark

For me it is more visceral when there is the option for redemption, and the creature/person persists in being evil.

Yeah, that fits in with what I meant. Static evil is one thing, but when you get something that is knowingly evil, you enter entirely different territory. I've always been a fan of any character that is relentless in its motivations, no matter what those motivations may be. The Saint of Killers from Preacher is a great example of that.

Funfetus

"He's not evil! He's just from a bad neighborhood!"

I submit that no one is truly evil, only from "from a bad neighborhood". Which is to say that everyone is the product of their experiences, and everyone at least finds a way to justify their actions to themselves, if not actually believing in their rightness wholeheartedly. I think that's an important point, at least when writing human or human-like characters. It's well and good for a demon to be "pure evil" with no motivation but destruction and pain, but people always have a justification for the evil they do, which is probably at least understandable if you know their experiences.

BlackVelvetPlease

"He's not evil! He's just from a bad neighborhood!"

I submit that no one is truly evil, only from "from a bad neighborhood". Which is to say that everyone is the product of their experiences, and everyone at least finds a way to justify their actions to themselves, if not actually believing in their rightness wholeheartedly. I think that's an important point, at least when writing human or human-like characters. It's well and good for a demon to be "pure evil" with no motivation but destruction and pain, but people always have a justification for the evil they do, which is probably at least understandable if you know their experiences.

on that note, just for the sake of noting it, why can't demons be good too? I mean we have angels that have converted to the 'dark side' (star wars ref. lol) so why not be able to have demons that have 'seen the light" so to say? Or at least realized that it would suit their own needs to be less 'evil'. and on that note who says what we conceive as 'evil' is 'evil' and what we conceive as 'good' is actually 'good'. Just pointing that out.

and Gomidog: I love Hellboy too! I was just noting that because I could have made an older reference but I wanted something that most people would know. Hellboy rocks! Abe Saipan rocks harder. lol

Funfetus

on that note, just for the sake of noting it, why can't demons be good too? I mean we have angels that have converted to the 'dark side' (star wars ref. lol) so why not be able to have demons who have 'seen the light" so to say? Or at least realized that it would suit their own needs to be less 'evil'. and on that note who says what we conceive as 'evil' is 'evil' and what we conceive as 'good' is actually 'good'. Just pointing that out.

There's no reason that demons can't be good. I mean, as demons are made up in the first place, you're free to do what you want with them in your fiction. My point was just that you can have some sort of supernatural creature, or robot, or whatever, that's "pure evil", but humans (or human-like characters) are never like that. And if any of your main characters ("heroes" or "villians") is a supernatural creature, even an evil one, there'd better be some conflict in there.

Whaleshark mentioned the Saint of Killers from Preacher. He was interesting, but I'm not sure I'd even call him a character. He functioned more like a force of nature.

TheWhaleShark

Whaleshark mentioned the Saint of Killers from Preacher. He was interesting, but I'm not sure I'd even call him a character. He functioned more like a force of nature.

He straddled the line, I think. His actions were definitely as a force of nature, but he was eventually (sort of) reasoned with, and his background expanded his motivations and sort of humanized him. He was human-esque, but still alien enough to be that implacable force. That's really the sort of thing I like in villainy, particularly supernatural villainy. I like the "force of nature" feel a lot; it forces the protagonist(s) to find different ways to deal with the villain. In a more dramatic story, a "force of nature" type evil can really really put the protagonists in a desperate situation, and that can really increase the tension. There's nothing more epic than having the burning eye of Sauron looming over the heroes as they push forth on their quest.

That's not to say that I don't like human flawed villains, or misunderstood evil, or what have you. Those are all well and good, but don't neglect the importance (and awesomeness) of the occasional force-of-nature badass who's there to mess shit up.

BlackVelvetPlease

BE WARNED THIS POST MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS FOR THE T.V. SHOW "SUPERNATURAL". IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN THE ENTIRE SERIES THEN YOU MAY NOT WANT TO READ THIS....just putting a warning to be nice.

Personally Although I don't dislike the cut and dry Hero vs Villian. I enjoy it more when they are more complicated than that. I find it makes the story better as a whole because then you can't predict the characters as much. (i.e. Supernatural where the Angels arn't the nice-y nice angelic type at all. While Sam and Dean are also not your typical heros as well even though they're ultimate goal is good.)

That's not to say that I don't like human flawed villains, or misunderstood evil, or what have you. Those are all well and good, but don't neglect the importance (and awesomeness) of the occasional force-of-nature badass who's there to mess shit up.

Lol, well put.