Ark, not all crazy beliefs are religions. People can be "true believers" in things like UFOs or 9/11 conspiracy theories.
Or Human goodness for that matter. I understand. The point is in the film, her "faith" isn't given any substance. It's just a label that's mentioned a couple of times but isn't actually developed.
My main problem with Evangelion is that it's basically everyone just shitting on the one person who can possibly save them all, and all of them know that he is the one.
Not true. They also shit on each other and themselves. Everyone is shit on proportionally to their prominance in the story.
EDIT: Ninja'd more than I tought possible. Y'all Prometheans and Anti-prometheans are having a good flame war.
I once saw a girl in her junior year (meaning she'd gone through at least three lab courses) lift up an EtBr polyacrylamide gel with her bare fucking hands. Like Dr. Z said: scientists aren't necessarily smart.
The one that takes the cake however was a guy had a newly made HIV virus that had a really common receptor on it instead of the T-cell receptors, which meant it could get into any kind of cell, and wore his gloves from the hood (where he handled it!!!) to the communal microscope where he kept his gloves on and possibly contaminated the entire department's equipment with easy infection HIV.
Holy shit why does this exist.
Exactly. I dare somebody to keep claiming that scientists are smart. Go ahead.
See, the thing is, after you've had your head buried in microbes for a long time, you lose touch with "normal" life. That's why scientists are such eccentric people; by and large, we don't know how to interact with all you people.
Ark, not all crazy beliefs are religions. People can be "true believers" in things like UFOs or 9/11 conspiracy theories.
Or Human goodness for that matter. I understand. The point is in the film, her "faith" isn't given any substance. It's just a label that's mentioned a couple of times but isn't actually developed.
It's given all the substance it needs. And, quite frankly, the fact that she wears a cross tells you everything you need to know.
1) She has faith in a higher power. 2) That higher power created mankind.
That's it. You need nothing else of her faith. That faith is challenged by the prospect of an entity that may have created her - but in the end, she sticks to her guns and keeps searching for the answer, unconvinced that she has found it.
Exploring it more wouldn't have yielded anything useful or meaningful.
The "true believer" bit is that she believes that humans may have been created by extraterrestrials. It's blatant if you paid attention to the context of the statement.
How did the corpses prove that the mission was right? They didn't prove that Humanity or Life on earth (I'm still not sure which it's supposed to be) was created by aliens. I don't think the characters ever actually found anything that verified that.
That was the impetus of the scene. I'm not talking about the reality of the research - there isn't any. The point is that the biologist was confronted with a paradigm-shifting revelation, and freaked out. And really, if you have some cracked-out hypothesis that involves 10-foot tall aliens, and then you actually find the body of a 10-foot tall alien, I'm probably going to put a lot more stock in your hypothesis than is probably warranted. Why? Because it's a fucking 10-foot tall alien.
I don't remember the biologist having the tobbaco in his helmet but assuming he did, that's just more writing that you'd expect to find in a B-Movie, "The Blonde lab assistant chick gets stoned and lets the space worm fuck her because she thinks it's her boyfriend who's now been eaten."
It's obvious from the context of the movie, and no, it's not B-movie writing - it's general storytelling. It's the equivalent of a guy having a drink to calm his nerves. Or going out to the bar, getting drunk, and getting into trouble.
Anyhow, I think I've said every useful thing I've got. At this point, I'm just rehashing everything I've already said.
So...Dark Knight Rises. Will it be terribad? A cinematic holocaust? MST3K material?
It's given all the substance it needs. And, quite frankly, the fact that she wears a cross tells you everything you need to know.
1) She has faith in a higher power. 2) That higher power created mankind.
I disagree, I read non-fictional religious literature and Christianity (and most other religions) have different meanings on an emotional/psychological level to different people. The fact that someone wears a cross doesn’t tell you anything about what their religious affiliation means to them.
That's it. You need nothing else of her faith. That faith is challenged by the prospect of an entity that may have created her - but in the end, she sticks to her guns and keeps searching for the answer, unconvinced that she has found it.
At what point did she feel challenged? That’s the kind of thing I would have liked to have seen. I didn’t see it though. Infact, her non-specific possibly Christian faith, and her attraction to the idea of tall humanoid creators from space seem to be interchangable.
The "true believer" bit is that she believes that humans may have been created by extraterrestrials. It's blatant if you paid attention to the context of the statement.
But where did this belief come from though? The drawings they found didn’t suggest half of what they (and Weyland) believed. Add to that, if you have a religious belief that would make you more bias towards certain world views and away from others, then Shaw’s enthusiastic embrace of the engineers thesis makes no sense outside of Schizophrenia.
it's not B-movie writing - it's general storytelling. It's the equivalent of a guy having a drink to calm his nerves. Or going out to the bar, getting drunk, and getting into trouble.
I can’t think of any non-B movie where unarmed characters who hadn’t already accepted death took intoxicants in the face of a dangerous situation.
I disagree, I read non-fictional religious literature and Christianity (and most other religions) have different meanings on an emotional/psychological level to different people. The fact that someone wears a cross doesn’t tell you anything about what their religious affiliation means to them.
It absolutely does in the context of this movie. You have a faithful character who wears a cross - that's a storytelling shortcut to clue you into her faith. With limited screen time, you need to employ the "show, don't tell" principle and use symbols to replace exposition.
On top of that, the cross was very important to her. She fought to keep it on her neck, and demanded it back despite being in a dangerous situation. That is someone fighting to keep her faith, which is being attacked by the forces around her - plain and simple.
You don't need an exposition to tell you that she's faithful and that her faith is important to her. And the cross as a symbol of Christianity is so commonplace that it's bizarre to not assume at least those basic tenets of faith upon seeing it. Coupled with the fact that she's the one identified as a "true believer" and other characters remark on her cross...yeah. They did a fine job identifying what you needed to know about her faith for the purposes of the story.
At what point did she feel challenged? That’s the kind of thing I would have liked to have seen. I didn’t see it though. Infact, her non-specific possibly Christian faith, and her attraction to the idea of tall humanoid creators from space seem to be interchangable.
Except that she defied the things when she learned of their nature, sought to end them, and then returned to her quest to find the "truth." She explored her faith, found it challenged by nefarious beings who literally tried to strip her of her faith (removing the cross that she fought to keep, and impregnating her with an alien monstrosity), persevered, and returned to her prior state of belief.
Perfectly good storytelling.
Add in to that the bits of dialogue where she is directly asked about her convictions, and you have an adequate challenge to her faith.
But where did this belief come from though? The drawings they found didn’t suggest half of what they (and Weyland) believed. Add to that, if you have a religious belief that would make you more bias towards certain world views and away from others, then Shaw’s enthusiastic embrace of the engineers thesis makes no sense outside of Schizophrenia.
Um, the "true belief" was evident precisely because they lacked evidence; it was all extrapolation from a few cave paintings. People called her crazy and she stuck to her guns. How is that not true belief? I really don't understand how you can deny that part at all.
As for her embrace of the Engineers - she probably thought she found a literal God. But there's also a lesson in there about the worship of false idols - it's a lesson pervasive in Christianity, in that there is a strong temptation to direct our faith at tangible entities that we can grasp or understand. And the movie explores her struggle with that, and then her move away from it back to a more agnostic form of faith.
I'm not terribly thrilled that the film seems to glorify a faith-based approach, but it's there. It's definitely a commentary on the power of faith and the struggles one faces in attempting to maintain it.
I can’t think of any non-B movie where unarmed characters who hadn’t already accepted death took intoxicants in the face of a dangerous situation.
There are too many to name. I'm not even going to bother, excpet to say that you must not have seen very many movies about war. Or westerns. Getting loaded in the face of a dangerous situation is a common movie trope - and yes, it usually represents a character with a death wish.
A friend of mine got to see Brave last night, it is apparently amazing.
Good to know, because the trailers haven't convinced my at all.
Just like John Carter, it seems like Disney just does not know how to market that movie. It's a fantasy adventure centered around a princess that does not end up getting a prince and it is apparently a movie that will make anyone who struggles with their relationship with their mother cry.
Rock of Ages is a musical romp through the 80's rock scene. It's exceptionally fun, albeit with a very standard and predictable story. There is also enough changed in the translation from musical to movie that it is very different from the original musical, but still familiar.
Also, they added Juke Box Hero to it, and that makes me happy.
I just saw the Royal Tenenbaums in preparation for seeing Moonrise Kingdom tonight. It was pretty good, not as great as people make it out to be, but very good regardless. I must say for most of it, I didn't like it too much; mostly because I kept asking myself the question "Why should I care about any of these messed up, dysfunctional people"? I know that that writing unlikable people is Anderson's forte, but at times it felt like he went overboard. By the end though, he turned it around and I enjoyed the ride.
Finally got around to watching the American version of The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo. Very good, solid film, but it didn't really get me the same way the Swedish version did. I don't know if it's because I saw that one first or what. Some day I'll have to read the actual book to see which one is more accurate since they were quite different in a lot of the details.
I'm listening to the Geeknights episode where Prometheus was mentioned. I haven't seen it, but a few family members of mine were really positive about it. Here's a guy who REALLY didn't like it
"To call Prometheus inconsequential would be a severe understatement. This movie is a trifling blip of narrative disarray, so lacking in anything resembling an intelligible throughline or purpose that I can’t help but wonder why there was any incentive to tell this story at all. Prometheus isn’t just bad; it actively detracts from the very mythology it’s trying to enhance, reducing the Alien legacy to little more than an accidental byproduct of a mind-numbingly stupid expedition.
+ some stylized directorial flourishes by the great duo of Neveldine/Taylor.
A bland story with some cools bits sprinkled about makes for a fun watch at least once. Especially if you're interested in the directorial works of Neveldine/Taylor.
Comments
EDIT: Ninja'd more than I tought possible. Y'all Prometheans and Anti-prometheans are having a good flame war.
Exactly. I dare somebody to keep claiming that scientists are smart. Go ahead.
See, the thing is, after you've had your head buried in microbes for a long time, you lose touch with "normal" life. That's why scientists are such eccentric people; by and large, we don't know how to interact with all you people. It's given all the substance it needs. And, quite frankly, the fact that she wears a cross tells you everything you need to know.
1) She has faith in a higher power.
2) That higher power created mankind.
That's it. You need nothing else of her faith. That faith is challenged by the prospect of an entity that may have created her - but in the end, she sticks to her guns and keeps searching for the answer, unconvinced that she has found it.
Exploring it more wouldn't have yielded anything useful or meaningful.
The "true believer" bit is that she believes that humans may have been created by extraterrestrials. It's blatant if you paid attention to the context of the statement. That was the impetus of the scene. I'm not talking about the reality of the research - there isn't any. The point is that the biologist was confronted with a paradigm-shifting revelation, and freaked out. And really, if you have some cracked-out hypothesis that involves 10-foot tall aliens, and then you actually find the body of a 10-foot tall alien, I'm probably going to put a lot more stock in your hypothesis than is probably warranted. Why? Because it's a fucking 10-foot tall alien. It's obvious from the context of the movie, and no, it's not B-movie writing - it's general storytelling. It's the equivalent of a guy having a drink to calm his nerves. Or going out to the bar, getting drunk, and getting into trouble.
Anyhow, I think I've said every useful thing I've got. At this point, I'm just rehashing everything I've already said.
So...Dark Knight Rises. Will it be terribad? A cinematic holocaust? MST3K material?
But where did this belief come from though? The drawings they found didn’t suggest half of what they (and Weyland) believed. Add to that, if you have a religious belief that would make you more bias towards certain world views and away from others, then Shaw’s enthusiastic embrace of the engineers thesis makes no sense outside of Schizophrenia. I can’t think of any non-B movie where unarmed characters who hadn’t already accepted death took intoxicants in the face of a dangerous situation.
On top of that, the cross was very important to her. She fought to keep it on her neck, and demanded it back despite being in a dangerous situation. That is someone fighting to keep her faith, which is being attacked by the forces around her - plain and simple.
You don't need an exposition to tell you that she's faithful and that her faith is important to her. And the cross as a symbol of Christianity is so commonplace that it's bizarre to not assume at least those basic tenets of faith upon seeing it. Coupled with the fact that she's the one identified as a "true believer" and other characters remark on her cross...yeah. They did a fine job identifying what you needed to know about her faith for the purposes of the story. Except that she defied the things when she learned of their nature, sought to end them, and then returned to her quest to find the "truth." She explored her faith, found it challenged by nefarious beings who literally tried to strip her of her faith (removing the cross that she fought to keep, and impregnating her with an alien monstrosity), persevered, and returned to her prior state of belief.
Perfectly good storytelling.
Add in to that the bits of dialogue where she is directly asked about her convictions, and you have an adequate challenge to her faith. Um, the "true belief" was evident precisely because they lacked evidence; it was all extrapolation from a few cave paintings. People called her crazy and she stuck to her guns. How is that not true belief? I really don't understand how you can deny that part at all.
As for her embrace of the Engineers - she probably thought she found a literal God. But there's also a lesson in there about the worship of false idols - it's a lesson pervasive in Christianity, in that there is a strong temptation to direct our faith at tangible entities that we can grasp or understand. And the movie explores her struggle with that, and then her move away from it back to a more agnostic form of faith.
I'm not terribly thrilled that the film seems to glorify a faith-based approach, but it's there. It's definitely a commentary on the power of faith and the struggles one faces in attempting to maintain it. There are too many to name. I'm not even going to bother, excpet to say that you must not have seen very many movies about war. Or westerns. Getting loaded in the face of a dangerous situation is a common movie trope - and yes, it usually represents a character with a death wish.
Also, they added Juke Box Hero to it, and that makes me happy.
"To call Prometheus inconsequential would be a severe understatement. This movie is a trifling blip of narrative disarray, so lacking in anything resembling an intelligible throughline or purpose that I can’t help but wonder why there was any incentive to tell this story at all. Prometheus isn’t just bad; it actively detracts from the very mythology it’s trying to enhance, reducing the Alien legacy to little more than an accidental byproduct of a mind-numbingly stupid expedition.
But boy, it sure is pretty."
slashfilm.com/prometheus-review-big-small-beginnings-small-beginnings/
Also, Terry Crews.
+ some stylized directorial flourishes by the great duo of Neveldine/Taylor.
A bland story with some cools bits sprinkled about makes for a fun watch at least once. Especially if you're interested in the directorial works of Neveldine/Taylor.
Next: Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance.