"Feminism", let alone "preachy" feminism, was far from the first thought I would have had from the Brave trailer. It seems odd that that was your go-to thought, hence the discussion.
Am I the only person that thought the first Cars movie was okay? I mean I do not hold it as high as some other Pixar films but I did not think it was bad.
Brave really looks a lot like an independent, female type of movie, but the trailers basically show you all the depth the movie really has which isn't that much. It's more about questioning tradition and rebelling against your parents for yourself vs. the greater good.
It's just an okay movie and I don't really need to see it again compared to other Pixar Films. (Not including the Cars movies) There's just so many unexplained, muddled scenarios that aren't delved into at all. The dialogue is merely exposition and the characters explaining their personality quirks. The only interesting character is the King, because not only is he funny and fascinating, but he injects a whole lot of joy and personality into the film. However, they want to focus on Merida/Elinore, who are obnoxiously one-note and belligerent.
This movie is going to succeed just from the advertising, number of kids, and how it hooked the female and kid audiences. However, the adults are going to be bored. The minute you ask for logic or explanation, the movie just falls apart.
Nukerjsr, did we even watch the same movie? It was the king who was flat, while Elinore especially had quite a bit of character depth.
And the trailers only showed around half the movie - they give the impression that Elinore barely matters other than to spur Merida to run away, when she does so much more than that.
The movie also succeeds on being really damn pretty and having a great score.
Nukerjsr, did we even watch the same movie? It was the king who was flat, while Elinore especially had quite a bit of character depth.
And the trailers only showed around half the movie - they give the impression that Elinore barely matters other than to spur Merida to run away, when she does so much more than that.
The movie also succeeds on being really damn pretty and having a great score.
Agreed with it being pretty and having a good score.
The trailers show off the first half of the movie, but some trailers do get into what happens in the second half. The problem is that it is beat-for-beat with the trailer and you can predict where it's going to end. There's not even any additional dialogue that gives you new information that you don't already know. I agree that there was more potential in explaining the king, the queen, and the entire world, but they didn't bother to explain why anything is set the way it is.
Hell, the movie is almost like a romantic comedy where...
If the characters talked things out, everything would be solved and we would have a better understanding of why Elinore is so settled on tradition and Merida is all about freedom/changing fate. In the first 10 minutes of the movie, they both have that cliched scene where they imagine talking to one another, and they cut between the two characters completing the same sentence.
Brave is a princess story that has a strong female character and no message about a marriage and family being the end-all-be-all of being a woman, and no "All your problems are miraculously solved by a strong man, and the first person you kiss will be your happily-ever-after fairy tale" bullshit. It doesn't pull any punches about the world being a tough place, and doesn't spoonfeed little girls heteronormative tripe that hurts more than it helps.
Merida is an elegant princess, for a more civilized age. Regardless of what you think of the writing, this is an important film and you should make it your business to see it.
Brave: Enjoyable but suffers from a change in tone about a third of the way through. Starts out very mystical and atmospheric, but a major plotpoint turns it slapstick and cartoony for the second act where the "choosing your own destiny" theme is hastily resolved long before the movie is even close to being over. Gets a bit better near the end, though.
Wall-E didn't make any sense. First of all, it's a robot. How am I supposed to connect with a robot? They don't have motivation or feelings. And how am I supposed to figure out his "motivations" if he doesn't talk?
Augh Pete! You missed the whole point! This is a robot with motivation and feelings! Science Fiction robots often have a heart. Plus you are full of beans because I remember you saying just last week that you liked David. He's a robot and he has some sort of feelings, it seems. Don't tell me he wants his "parents" to die just because some algorithm told him it would be practical. He hates.
As for Brave, I liked it okay, but it was not my favorite. It felt more like a Disney film than a Pixar film for some reason, despite the fact that this was the first princess that did not end up with a prince wedding at the end. The slapstick was too thick, the pacing felt strange, and a lot of the scenes reminded me of other Disney films. It was one of those movies that would change emotional tones very quickly, and that always leaves me frustrated. Despite that, it was an enjoyable film and the forest scenes were beautiful. I cried at the end.
Although I liked the witch, the touch tone cauldron basically pulled a Shrek and made reference to modern culture in a way that no other part of the movie did. Maces falling on people was strange in a film where injury (such as from the demon bear) was such a real and present threat. Also, don't just use a single montage to represent the mother and daughter's mutual character growth. I could have used some more scenes in the forest, rather than just "oh she caught a fish!" Also, people laughed when the demon bear got crushed. Fuck you people! That was a good scene where the spirit is set free.
Welp. I guess you are beyond helping, and I can discount all of your opinions. Nausicaa is one of my absolute favorite fictional characters and I consider her my fictional role model, the kind of person I aspire to be a least a little bit like. She is a very deep character, who is about the struggle between pacifism and self defense, full of compassion but also able to fight to protect those she loves. She has anger and hate, but she recognizes those feelings and fights against them, which makes her incredibly human. She is a pragmatic leader who is very brave. She looks beyond appearances, and tries to resolve conflicts by understanding. One of the things I love about Nausicaa is that she is not perfect, but she tries to follow her ideals anyway.
I don't hate the character, I hate the movie. I don't love her as much as you clearly do, but she certainly deserves a better movie than the one she got. Also, why am I the only one of us who follows the non-aggression pact?
Welp. I guess you are beyond helping, and I can discount all of your opinions. Nausicaa is one of my absolute favorite fictional characters and I consider her my fictional role model, the kind of person I aspire to be a least a little bit like. She is a very deep character, who is about the struggle between pacifism and self defense, full of compassion but also able to fight to protect those she loves. She has anger and hate, but she recognizes those feelings and fights against them, which makes her incredibly human. She is a pragmatic leader who is very brave. She looks beyond appearances, and tries to resolve conflicts by understanding. One of the things I love about Nausicaa is that she is not perfect, but she tries to follow her ideals anyway.
You just read my mind about why I love Nausicaa too, Emily.
I don't hate the character, I hate the movie. I don't love her as much as you clearly do, but she certainly deserves a better movie than the one she got. Also, why am I the only one of us who follows the non-aggression pact?
If you want to get the full scope of the character, read the manga. I compare the storytelling in that series to be almost up there with Lord of the Rings in terms of how epic the scope of the story is, the impact it had on the medium of manga, and how much it has endured over the years.
Geo's right, the manga you get a much more in depth story, but the movie is not bad either. It still conveys something of the character. It has a coherent plot, it has some really neat shots, and there are some scenes that give me chills not matter how many times I watch it. I just saw it on the big screen during the Ghibli festival and I remembered how much that movie (and the comic that inspired it) has influenced me and my work.
What is your favorite movie, Greg? Just curious. I hear you rag on movies a lot, but I don't think I have ever heard you talk in glowing terms about any piece of media on the forums.
Wall-E didn't make any sense. First of all, it's a robot. How am I supposed to connect with a robot? They don't have motivation or feelings. And how am I supposed to figure out his "motivations" if he doesn't talk?
Augh Pete! You missed the whole point!
I think you missed the whole point of Pete's post? Or maybe not. Actually, now I'm confused. It seemed facetious.
What is your favorite movie, Greg? Just curious. I hear you rag on movies a lot, but I don't think I have ever heard you talk in glowing terms about any piece of media on the forums.
I'm not sure, so here's some contendors: -- Toy Story 3 -- The Adventures of Tintin -- Trainspotting -- All This and World War II -- Princess Mononoke -- Clockwork Orange
You don't see me post much about movies I like because I usually don't have much to add to the conversation, and frequently the movies I do post about liking are too obscure for anyone else to have seen.
All of those films are good (except for that Beatles newsreel one, whose quality I can't speak to), but I can honestly say that if any one of those is your favorite film, then you need to see more films.
Okay, you like Princess Mononoke so you are back on my list of people I share tastes with a little bit. I heart that movie. Was the Tintin movie actually good? I didn't go see it, but I like Tintin.
Also, WUB, Princess Mononoke is one of my favorite movies, and I have seen a ton of movies, so hey.
The Adventures of Tintin is excellent, you should definitely see it. While it combines three volumes, it does so in a way that makes them into a more coherent overarching stories than just being three separate stories that are related.
Okay, you like Princess Mononoke so you are back on my list of people I share tastes with a little bit. I heart that movie. Was the Tintin movie actually good? I didn't go see it, but I like Tintin.
I might need to rewatch that one, actually. At the time, my bio-chemistry was in an odd place, so I might have enjoyed it more than it was actually worth.
All of those films are good (except for that Beatles newsreel one, whose quality I can't speak to), but I can honestly say that if any one of those is your favorite film, then you need to see more films.
They're not the best, they're my favorites. The only of those that would be on my top 20 best movies would be Clockwork Orange and All This and WWII (and possibly Mononoke).
Yeah, it might not be best of all time, but it can sure is nothing to sneeze at. It's a very well respected film. Personally, I can say the whole Ghibli oeuvre probably is responsible for the path I chose to follow in life, so I can defend it as my favorite with pride.
Yeah, so, I can't stop thinking of things that didn't seem to follow through from the first part of Brave. Was there any significance to the amulet that Merida used to pay the witch? She treated it with enough importance that it felt like something that should have been explained. Also, Elinore talked about trying to give Merida what she never was able to have, which is a theme that should really have been expanded upon. Today I learned there was a directorial change part way through the production of the movie, so maybe that's why a lot of these loose ends didn't seem to go anywhere.
You said I needed to see more films if Mononoke was my very favorite, and it's pretty much my very favorite (it's hard to pick, just like with books), and I said that lack of seeing films is definitely not the problem with my choice. There are better films, even better and more acclaimed Ghibli films, but Mononoke and Nausicaa are the ones that really meshed with my imagination and sensibilities.
I suppose it could be. I'm sorry I generalized. I still have trouble imagining Trainspotting as a favorite film in a world where Fitzcarraldo exists, but you're entitled to both an opinion and the right to change it.
You said I needed to see more films if Mononoke was my very favorite, and it's pretty much my very favorite (it's hard to pick, just like with books), and I said that lack of seeing films is definitely not the problem with my choice. There are better films, even better and more acclaimed Ghibli films, but Mononoke and Nausicaa are the ones that really meshed with my imagination and sensibilities.
Yeah, I probably cast my net too wide on that one. Princess Mononoke is a great film, and though not my very favorite, I can see how it could be someone's--especially if that person is an animator.
I was more taking issue with the fact that Greg is 15 and probably hasn't seen a huge quality of great films. I could be wrong, but I feel like once you've seen enough other animated films, Tintin remains good, but ultimately not incredible.
Anyway, taste is subjective and this argument is ultimately really dumb.
Comments
It's just an okay movie and I don't really need to see it again compared to other Pixar Films. (Not including the Cars movies) There's just so many unexplained, muddled scenarios that aren't delved into at all. The dialogue is merely exposition and the characters explaining their personality quirks. The only interesting character is the King, because not only is he funny and fascinating, but he injects a whole lot of joy and personality into the film. However, they want to focus on Merida/Elinore, who are obnoxiously one-note and belligerent.
This movie is going to succeed just from the advertising, number of kids, and how it hooked the female and kid audiences. However, the adults are going to be bored. The minute you ask for logic or explanation, the movie just falls apart.
And the trailers only showed around half the movie - they give the impression that Elinore barely matters other than to spur Merida to run away, when she does so much more than that.
The movie also succeeds on being really damn pretty and having a great score.
The trailers show off the first half of the movie, but some trailers do get into what happens in the second half. The problem is that it is beat-for-beat with the trailer and you can predict where it's going to end. There's not even any additional dialogue that gives you new information that you don't already know. I agree that there was more potential in explaining the king, the queen, and the entire world, but they didn't bother to explain why anything is set the way it is.
Hell, the movie is almost like a romantic comedy where...
The writing in this film is just so lame.
Merida is an elegant princess, for a more civilized age. Regardless of what you think of the writing, this is an important film and you should make it your business to see it.
Plus you are full of beans because I remember you saying just last week that you liked David. He's a robot and he has some sort of feelings, it seems. Don't tell me he wants his "parents" to die just because some algorithm told him it would be practical. He hates.
As for Brave, I liked it okay, but it was not my favorite. It felt more like a Disney film than a Pixar film for some reason, despite the fact that this was the first princess that did not end up with a prince wedding at the end. The slapstick was too thick, the pacing felt strange, and a lot of the scenes reminded me of other Disney films. It was one of those movies that would change emotional tones very quickly, and that always leaves me frustrated. Despite that, it was an enjoyable film and the forest scenes were beautiful. I cried at the end.
One of the things I love about Nausicaa is that she is not perfect, but she tries to follow her ideals anyway.
What is your favorite movie, Greg? Just curious. I hear you rag on movies a lot, but I don't think I have ever heard you talk in glowing terms about any piece of media on the forums.
-- Toy Story 3
-- The Adventures of Tintin
-- Trainspotting
-- All This and World War II
-- Princess Mononoke
-- Clockwork Orange
You don't see me post much about movies I like because I usually don't have much to add to the conversation, and frequently the movies I do post about liking are too obscure for anyone else to have seen.
Was the Tintin movie actually good? I didn't go see it, but I like Tintin.
Also, WUB, Princess Mononoke is one of my favorite movies, and I have seen a ton of movies, so hey.
There are better films, even better and more acclaimed Ghibli films, but Mononoke and Nausicaa are the ones that really meshed with my imagination and sensibilities.
I was more taking issue with the fact that Greg is 15 and probably hasn't seen a huge quality of great films. I could be wrong, but I feel like once you've seen enough other animated films, Tintin remains good, but ultimately not incredible.
Anyway, taste is subjective and this argument is ultimately really dumb.